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alfanso's picture
alfanso

soSJSD revisited

In a recent blog about Lessons in Baking I ended by stating “perhaps that is the most important lesson of the day – that with practice and sticking to plan, one can duplicate over and over again what they create.”

I’m going to get together with the friend and son-in-law again in a few days.  This next time, if the plan pans out, he will be the hands-on person, and I’ll be the observer.  But I thought about a formula a bit simpler than the Sesame Semolina Levain batard that we did last time.  Just plain old F, W, S and Y.  And what comes immediately to mind is the sterling SJSD Levain formula by David Snyder.  My recent take on mostly everything is to use my own version of a stiff levain in place of just about whatever is called for (except rye sours).  Just sprinkle a few additional grams of water into the mix to compensate for the hydration lost with a stiffer levain.

In preparation, I ran a batch of my soSJSD* Batards.  And they came out as anticipated.  With the funny exception of two of them scored and bloomed just a bit off.  Still in all, a good bake with some lovely blistering.  And further evidence that one can indeed duplicate repeatedly what they create.

*son of San Joaquin SourDough

Steam released and rotated

 

Handsome little devils

And the crumb

alan

chrisf's picture
chrisf

Ciabatta first time.

I made a test run of ciabatta that I will be making for a party in a few weeks. Overall I'm pleased with the results. Here is what I did and what I would change the next time.

Took 25g of my No Muss No Fuss starter (spelt whole grain I grind) and made 30% starter in one fell swoop- 500g flour, KABF and Semolina, and the same water. Left it for 16 hours on the counter.

5lbs KABF

2.2lbs Semolina from this mix I took 500 g for the starter

Water 80%

Salt 2.5%

CY 1.3%

Mixed starter, water and all the remaining flour in the DLX until just incorporated. Let sit 10 minutes then added yeast and mixed on high (I have the 450Watt) for 8 minutes. Added the salt slowly and mixed another 4 minutes. This maxed out the DLX but it worked. Dough temp = 80 dF.

Transferred to DoughMate plastic container. S&F 3 times in the next hour plus. Divided at the 90 minute mark and put on reversed sheet pan with parchment. Let proof 30 more minutes and baked.

Preheated the oven for 45 minutes at 500 dF with a piece of 1 1/4" soapstone in the middle. Launched the first batch (4 loaves) onto the stone and poured a cup of water into a tray on the bottom of the oven. 5 minutes later another cup of water. At the 10 minute mark I turned the oven down to 425 dF and baked another 15 - 20 minutes. Internal temp 209 dF.

What I would do differently. When dividing the dough I followed the Heitz method and put a piece of scrap on the top of the dough, then flipping it over to proof on the parchment. The drawback to this is the dough stuck enough to the parchment that I didn't try to flip the pieces over. I made 7 loaves with all that dough. Next time I will proof on linen and flip them onto the parchment right before launching them.

They got a bit of rough handling this first time and I think it might have affected the open crumb.

 

 

KathyF's picture
KathyF

Trying out my rye starter

I've been working on establishing a rye starter. I used dark rye at 100% hydration seeded with a little of my wheat SD starter. It has been bubbling away for a couple of weeks spending some it's time in the refrigerator. I have been using it in addition with my regular starter, but hadn't yet tried it on it's own. So today I decided to try a loaf of rye bread using just my rye starter. I have made rye bread before, mostly with instant yeast and once with my wheat starter, but this is the first time using just the rye starter. I keep my rye bread pretty plain as that is how my family likes it. This is what I did:

Rye starter: 140 grams
Flour: 357 grams
Rye flour: 63 grams
Water: 259 grams
Salt: 11 grams
caraway seeds: 1 teaspoon

That works out at about a total of 27% Rye flour and 67% hydration. Hmm. I should of upped the percentage of rye. That's a bit low. Should of also used more caraway seeds. But it still came out pretty good. Makes a nice sandwich!

Here is a crumb shot:

aroma's picture
aroma

Einkorn progress

I just love the taste of Einkorn bread - its 'nutty' taste is like nothing else I've tried before but it does have its idiosyncrasies and doesn't always respond like 'normal' sourdough bread.  Previously, I've proved it in a banneton and baked it on a stone but it has collapsed - probably because of over-proving but I've learnt that lesson now.

This time, I did a 75/25 Einkorn/Canadian white blend at just 60% hydration using an overnight 30% preferment (produced from my rye-based culture).  Two hours of Bulk Fermentation and just two hours proving until it had almost reached the top of the loaf tin.  I used the Canadian white bread flour to try to get a bit more lift but the volume was a tad disappointing - I was hoping for something taller but nevertheless, the taste was just superb - the crumb was soft and moist and the crust crispy.

I have a bulk supply of this lovely flour and have a few more options to explore but I would be interested to hear from anyone out there who has tried and succeeded with Einkorn.

Cheers

 

 

 

MJ Sourdough's picture
MJ Sourdough

Poilane - English pamphlet - great quick read!!!

Hi Freshloafers

I just got back from Paris where I visited the Poilane outlet in St Germain. I picked up a great Poilane pamphlet in english. I wanted to share it with the Fresh Loaf community because I think it provides a great summary of the historical importance of sourdough bread, the important health qualities of sourdough bread and the importance of using good ingredients. Its a quick read and a great summary for anyone interest in sourdough bread from one the world's most renowned 100% sourdough bread producers.

If anyone one takes a look, please do let me know what you think.

Thanks

MJ Sourdough

alfanso's picture
alfanso

Ciabatta practice

So, the Little Woman keeps nagging like a parrot "how about making some ciabatta, how about making some ciabatta"  The only thing missing is the "aawk" squeal at the end.  Sheesh!!!  Okay, okay already.

I haven't made ciabatta in nearly forever with my batard and baguette obsession, er, interest still peaking.  But I'm out of practice, so this is the practice run.  A half dozen rolls and a long loaf.  1000g total dough mix at 83% hydration, this is the only thing that I use the mixer for.  Lost some dough to the workbench, mixing bowls, etc. and the entire thang is down to probably a little more than 900g.

Next time to do:

  • Too much flour, but there is that fine line to walk with ciabatta between sticking and releasing
  • Better shaping
  • More loft on the loaf.  The rolls came out just dandy (shaping excluded).

Biga made yesterday and then retarded overnight, the whole activity cost me a tad more than 5 hours today.

 

Steam released and rotated.

alan

KathyF's picture
KathyF

Normandy Apple Bread… Tweaked

Since the family loved the apple bread so much, I decided to try again with a few tweaks. As suggested by dabrownman and Reynard in my last blog, I soaked my dehydrated apples in the cider. I also decided to forgo the instant yeast and rely on my levain to do all the rising of the bread. So this is how I went about it:

  • Soaked dehydrated apples in apple cider.
  • Combined flour with water and cider. Autolyzed for 30 minutes.
  • Put autolyzed flour, salt and levain in bread machine and kneaded until it started to window pane. Added in apple pieces to incorporate.
  • Turned out of machine and lightly kneaded it and set in oiled container to bulk rise for 3 1/2 hours. Did stretch and folds once every hour. I intended to bulk rise for 4 hours, but it was looking nice and puffy at 3 1/2 hours.
  • Preshape and rest for 10 minutes. Shaped and put in banneton for a final rise of 2 hours.
  • Baked in dutch oven. Pre-heated oven at 450F, and once bread was in the oven I turned the temp down to 425F. Baked for 25 minutes covered, 15 minutes (at 400F) uncovered.

The result was, IMO, much improved. Since the dough wasn't dried out by the apple pieces, I had better hydration and a more moist and open crumb. And the longer rise with the sourdough starter gave me a much more flavorful bread. Amazing how much difference that makes.

Interesting that the crust was soft just like last time. Not that I'm complaining as I like it a lot, but wonder what contributes to the change in texture. Must be the apple cider. I have made fruit breads before and the crust was more in line with what one expects from sourdough bread.

And here is the crumb shot:

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Khaled does 6 (six) SF Bakeries in 1 (one) day!

Back in April, Khaled let me know he had enrolled in the Sourdough Bread workshop at the San Francisco Baking Institute. I volunteered to meet him there and, after he had a night to recover a bit from the 15 hour flight from Dubai, take him on a tour of San Francisco bakeries and show him some of the city sights. I also volunteered brother Glenn, who lives in San Francisco, to act as native guide. 

So, Khaled and his friend and business associate, Jamal, arrived last Friday. My wife and I picked them up at their hotel Saturday morning and drove to downtown. We parked in the Mission Street Garage, because we expected to leave the car most of the day, and I thought Khaled and Jamal would enjoy the walk to the Ferry Building, where Glenn joined us. I had warned Khaled that July can be chilly in San Francisco. Even though, it turned out to be unseasonably warm (68 dF), coming from the UAE, the visitors said it seemed quite chilly to them.

There is a fabulous Farmer's Market at the San Francisco Ferry Building on Saturday mornings. In addition to wonderful produce and other foods, there are three bakeries that come: Acme (Acme Bread Company - Ferry Building Marketplace), which has a permanent stall inside the Ferry Building, Della Fattoria (Della Fattoria Homepage), from Petaluma and Downtown Bakery (Downtown Bakery & Creamery | Home - Healdsburg), from Healdsburg. We tasted samples and bought various pastries and breads at each.

Glenn's office is on the 22nd floor of one of the Embarcadero Center towers, a couple hundred yards from the Ferry Building, so he took us up for a panoramic view of the Bay. By then, it was time for lunch. We walked over to California Street and up to Tadich Grill (Tadich Grill | San Francisco, CA), which, for those of you who don't know, is the oldest restaurant in the City (founded during the Gold Rush era) and still one of the best, especially for fish.  Hmmmm ... If you take into account the delicious, very much old-style San Francisco Sourdough that Boudin custom bakes for Tadich Grill, we actually "visited" 7 (seven) bakeries.

We then hopped on the Muni and headed down Market to the Castro. We got off the trolly close to Thorough Bread Bakery (Thorough Bread and Pastry), one of my favorites, but Khaled was very focused on visiting Tartine (Tartine Bakery), so we walked there first. He said he just needed to see it. As usual, the line was half a block long. I stood in line, "just in case," while Susan and Khaled squeezed past the line, into the bakery/cafe, so Khaled could see their offerings. He came back to the end of the line with this really intense, serious look and announced he "had to get something," no matter how long we had to wait. So, another of those really tough sacrifices one makes for a friend, we had coffee and (too many) pastries at Tartine. Everything was amazingly wonderful.

So, we walked back to Thorough Bread Bakery. Their breads and Pastries looked wonderful as they always do, but we were already suffering from a mixture of butter intoxication and hyper-caffeination, so we just looked. Then we took the Muni back downtown to retrieve our cars and met again at B Patisserie (b. patisserie) on California and Divisadero. 

Now, it occurs to me that you might get the idea this was some sort of self-indulgent carbohydrate orgy. I want you to understand, Khaled and Jamal are serious businessmen, in San Francisco for professional training. They have very high standards and are both clearly committed to producing an authentic product of the highest quality to their clientele. They have an exceptional challenge: They aim to introduce French-style, artisanal pains au levain in several varieties to a country that has no prior exposure to these foods. Moreover, neither man has personally traveled in France, Italy or other countries where the breads they will be baking are "native." They know what they have read about and seen photos of here on TFL and in their cookbooks and what they have baked themselves. One of their goals for this trip was to taste as many of the types of breads they anticipate baking as possible at as many excellent bakeries as possible. I do think that the bakeries they visited would be hard to beat, setting a standard of quality for which to strive for any baker.

 

Jamal and Khaled performing intensive product assessment at b. patisserie

Susan, Glenn and I had great fun facilitating Khaled and Jamal's investigations. 

David

 

Colin_Sutton's picture
Colin_Sutton

Better-shaped loaves by avoiding overproofing

Over the weekend, I received some really useful advice from active members of this forum on avoiding over-proofed sourdough loaves (too warm and too long).  My weekend bake was more of a disc than a boule. With help I produced a much better loaf at 65% hydration, as shown in this post.

I commend other readers to the comments from KathyF, FrugalBaker and AbeNW11 at http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/43117/search-height.

I was particularly struck by comments from FrugalBaker, which may be use for others facing similar problems:

  1. Reduce the quantity of levain.
  2. Reduce proofing time. Try keeping the entire process from autolyse to final shaping to not more than 3 hours (I was proving at 27°C).
  3. Cold fermentation (keep dough in the fridge overnight after final shaping and proving). Not only that you can avoid the over-proving problem, your bread will taste better. 
  4. Creating surface tension is vital when it comes to shaping as this is the step that will determine how your dough rises.

I feel like I've turned a corner with sourdough baking as a result of putting my earlier bake up on here for constructive comment.  Many thanks to those who take the time to comment on questions from relative newbies, like me.

Happy baking, Colin.

barryvabeach's picture
barryvabeach

Double or Triple in Size - what allows it to have enough strength to double

I have been making bread for quite some time ( nearly all 100% home milled wheat ) and have noticed that some recipes call for bulk fermentation until the dough doubles in size, some call for less and say increase 50% in volume.  I have learned from past mistakes that if you let that dough go too long, and it grows to 2 1/2 to 3 times its size, it gets gooey, and when you try to shape it, it does not work well and won't get any oven spring ( I would say over proofed, though often I see that term used in connection with final proof )  

Other recipes, for example, Ciabatta,  call for tripling in volume in bulk ferment, and seem to show no ill effects in final proofing from that much development. Of course, you don't shape ciabatta as you would some other doughs, but I actually use it in sandwich pans and it still comes out great.

So my question is why can some doughs handle tripling in volume, and others not.  Is it a function of hydration, type of flour, yeast running out of food?   Or is it that all doughs can triple in bulk fermentation, but that once you get past doubled in volume, you can't do much in the way of shaping.

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