The Fresh Loaf

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bread1965's picture
bread1965

A not so HOL-E war..

Wasn't it Einstein that said something like: doing the same thing, expecting a different result is the definition of insanity!?!   Well, that's what I feel like right now..

In my ongoing quest to figure out how to make a very open crumb bread per Trevor Wilson I gave this another go this weekend. I decide life is too short to eat white bread, so this time I made two loves with identical flours but slightly different hydration.

 

They have 350g bread flour, 100g whole wheat flour, 85g dark rye flour with 50g of a 100% hydration AP flour starter. Hydration in the first loaf  above was 65% and 70% in the second. I'm trying to work on my technique to see how hydration impacts how I deal with the process. The 65% hydration loaf was clearly stiffer than the 70% hydration loaf.

I was fairly aggressive in trying to incorporate the starter, etc. and then limited my stretch and folds. In the first 90 minutes I gave it three single sets of (four) stretch and folds - rotating the bowl a quarter turn on each.  Each of those stretch and folds were stiff and I felt like I was pulling the dough too much to make them happen. And then gave them another three stretch and folds over the next four/five hours. At the time I pre-shaped it began to FEEL more airy (but not too far) and was about at a 30-40% rise in the dough.

My starter was very active, well fed and kept in a warm (76-78 degree) spot as was the dough kept during bulk.

I didn't over work the pre-shape. I let it sit for half an hour and then did a final shape. Into the baskets and then I put them into the fridge for about 14/15 hours. Here's the crumb shots 65% to 70% respectively.. the first shot's colour is off just because of lighting when I took the picture..

I'm no closer to getting to a HOL-E crumb. But I'm waging the battle with good intention. The breads both taste lovely and toasted with 'chateau du bourgogne cheese' taste spectacular! The wine helps too! I think I need to go back and re-read Trevor's book from the start and see what I'm doing wrong. I'm getting better at developing structure of the loaf and getting a good bloom / oven-spring, but I wonder if I should have let the bulk proof run longer than to a 35ish percent increase in dough volume (which I think is what he goes for).. The dough didn't really expand much in the fridge.  I was rushed but perhaps could have left them out this morning to warm up and maybe expand more.. thankfully I can eat my experiments!  All advice and insight welcomed!

Bake happy... bread1965!

Bröterich's picture
Bröterich

Sourdough Technique Experiment: No Knead vs. The Works

This is an interesting topic.

The writer tried to do side-by-side comparisons of the 2 techniques using identical ingredients.

https://breadtopia.com/sourdough-technique-experiment-no-knead-vs-the-works/ 

It would almost suggest that we may overthink and possibly overwork our bread making. Read the comments. I remember that Ken Forkish raises this subject somewhat when he compares his bread making methods to Jim Lahey's no knead method.

I have wondered about this myself at times when we read descriptions of using X number of S&Fs spaced some many minutes apart or recommendations of one S&F technique vs. slapping, kneading, etc. It may seem that dough in general is more forgiving than we think.

Comments, thoughts?

Tom 

 
funkytwig's picture
funkytwig

Gluten Free Baead, tried several times but nothing edable

OK, not quite.  I have had quite good results with 'Helen's Gluten Free White Bread Mix' (https://www.foodbyhelen.com/product/helens-gluten-free-sandwich-bread-mix-white/)  but not the brown one she does (this created horable bread). I have also tried Brown and White using Dove Farm gluten free flour (https://www.dovesfarm.co.uk/products/freee/gluten-free-white-bread-flour-x-1kg).  The brown is just about edible but the white is not.  I followed the recepies they gave.

I am using a breadmaker and have tried both the 'gluten free' setting and the fast white one.  I am using dove farm quick yeast (https://www.dovesfarm.co.uk/products/quick-yeast-1x125g).  The problem I am having is everything comes out very heavy/quite solid and glupy (i.e. the opposite of fluffy, moist and solid). 

What I actually want to do is make my own mix using rice flour and a number of other gluten-free flour like things but as I am generally having the same problem really need to advise.

I have 2 inedable loaves and one almost edable;(  I should just clarify ime not beeing fussy, when I say inedableI i mean its a real strugle to get it down, it really is not nice.  Cheap white slised cotton wool is a masive improvement (alough I dont actualy like it).

I am wondering if I qhould be using quick yeast (its what they have in the Dove Farm recipied) and how long the breadmaker programme should be.

Ittayd's picture
Ittayd

Feeding when kept in fridge

Hi,

I have a starter that peaks after I feed it 1:1:1 within ~6 hours in 23C. I want to stop feeding it every day and start to keep it in the fridge and feed it once a week, when I can also take some to make bread and put the rest back in the fridge.

My concern is that when I feed it 1:1:1, I'm essentially diluting it 1:3. If I put it in the fridge and it doesn't populate, then the next time I take it out and feed the same ratio, it'll become 1:9, etc. So essentially I'll dilute it more and more until there's not enough in a batch I take to make bread (so say I take out 250g, but it has 1:27 of the yeast/bacteria it is supposed to have). 

So, what is the proper ratio to feed if I put it back in the fridge every time for a week? How do I know the population of yeast/bacteria is at the ratio it should be? Note that I'm trying to avoid tests in which I need to wait 12 hours or multiple cycles of feeding to know, want something as much hassle free as possible, and still have a starter I can take out of the fridge, let it warm for several hours and start making bread.


CarlThePigFarmer's picture
CarlThePigFarmer

Sourdough Quiche/Pie Crust??

Hey was hoping someone could help me, want to take advantage of some starter discard by making a quiche crust.

Does anyone have anything they've had success with? Any advice?

Weights or percentages would be ideal and if I could employ the lazy kitchen-aid even better.

thanks so much!

trailrunner's picture
trailrunner

cheesy buttery SD goodness

Took a formula that Ian had posted some time back and made a few changes . He made enriched buns as did I but I had 750 grams leftover so shaped a batard and pinched the bottom with flour in the crack hoping for a burst of creativity !  I got it. 

700g starter- 600g rye and 100g AYW 

600 g unbleached KA bread flour

225g durum

200g spring wheat 

100g soft cheese ( I used Délice de Bourgogne with the blooming crust pulled off) 

100g soft butter

85 g maple syrup

32 g salt

approx 650g water 

autolysed the flours and water a couple hours while at gym. Added everything else and did 50 turns in the bowl pulling the sides up and over with a rubber spatula. Did 5 sets of 50  at approx 30 min intervals. Put dough in bucket and let it rest 2 hrs in warm place. Didn't rise at all. Took it out on floured table and did stretch and folds. Dough is so lovely and easy to work with. Did this a 15 min intervals x 5. Placed in bucket and set in cold mud room area overnight. Placed in fridge at 6 AM. Had risen 50%. Came home from gym and shaped cold dough into 2 doz 3 oz buns and one 750g batard. Let rise about 2 hrs. Baked the loaf first in my Mom's 1940's granite roaster. It is the best for baking !  I just put it in the oven as it preheats to 500. Pan gets hot really quickly. Place loaf in and cover. Baked 10 min at 500 and then reduced to 475 for 10 min all with lid on. Removed lid and had a big smile finished baking for 20 min lid off at 475. Reheated oven to 500 . Had previously brushed buns with egg yolk glaze and put on sesame seeds. Placed baking sheets back in cold mud room to wait for bread to bake. Retrieved cold buns and baked for 10 min at 500.  switched racks and reduced to 475 for 10 min , turned back up to 500 for 2 min to brown a bit more. Amazing fragrance. Will post crumb pic later. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Lazy Loafer's picture
Lazy Loafer

Rejuvenating a starter

As have many of you, I've downloaded and have been devouring Trevor Wilson's book over the last week or so. A light bulb went off early in the book when he was discussing the strength of your starter and the fact that it might have too high an acid load. My old starter was getting a little eye watering (very acetic-smelling) which was probably contributing to the slight disappointment I've had in my sourdoughs lately (a bit dense and gummy for my liking). This even though it seemed to be bubbly and floaty when used.

So I took a bit of it and divided it into two jars, and fed each one at 1:3:3 - one stone-ground whole wheat flour, the other unbleached bread flour. The first build took a while to double, but it looked fairly nice once it did (though it still smelled a little acetic). I scooped out half of each and did another 1:3:3 feed. I didn't record the timing (maybe 8 hours?) but as shown in the picture above, the starters took off! Of course, the whole wheat one didn't have anywhere near the volume of the bread flour one, but still more than doubled (the top line on the masking tape shows where this second build started). And they both smell very nice.

It's nice to know my old starter is still good, and just needed a little TLC. But just for fun, I've also started a new one using Debra Wink's Pineapple Juice formula, and named it (of course) "Piney the Younger". Still early days, so we'll see how that one goes. :)

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

Opinions on Lekue Silicone Baker

I  recently bought a Lekue. My breads are coming out pale and I’m thinking about returning it.

What are your baking experiences using it?

Dan

Abelbreadgallery's picture
Abelbreadgallery

Lentil flour pavé with carrots

Baking with pulses flour is exciting. Good vegetable protein, it's a very interesting option from the nutritional point of view. It's a good alternative also to other non-gluten flours in your bread. This time the content of lentil flour was 20% of the total flour in the bread. I don't count the content of flour in the stiff sourdough. I also added some grated carrots, for flavour and also for the colour.

psedillo's picture
psedillo

Fine sea salt vs. kosher salt

I’ve seen several bread recipes call for one or the other. I’m sure there is a reason and would appreciate any and all insight. 

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