The Fresh Loaf

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Elos's picture
Elos

Starter Feeding

So I had a mature starter. Was feeding a 50/50 mix of whole wheat and all purpose. Began preparing a baguette starter of just AP flour. Doesn’t seem to be rising at the same rate as my usual 50/50. Is that because of the absence of the whole wheat? All other factors are good. Room temp / water temp... Any advise is appreciated. 

Brian Gardner's picture
Brian Gardner

Final proof is always very loose

I make bread using the Ken Forkish FWSY approach. Whether it's white, wheat, bread from poolish or levain, when I take the loaves out of the banettons just before baking, they are actually pretty hard to pick up. If I lift a loaf with both hands, the dough seems to spill over the sides, and it seems that if I don't rush them immediately into the dutch ovens, they would spill all over. It's hard to get the right shape sometimes. Should I shape them better, letting gas out, to get a tighter loaf, and just deal with it?

In the final product, my loaves are all pretty great in the taste department. It just seems that when I see others moving the loaves to the oven they don't "pool" as much as mine. 

Brian

JustJoel's picture
JustJoel

Sourdough newbie

I’ve never made sourdough. I’ve never made a starter (well, I did try once. It turned into a muddy stinking mess after three days). I would like to try, not because I love sourdough, but because it’s a challenge, and anyone learning to bake bread should tackle it at least once!

Does anyone have any good advice for a beginner? What is the best way to begin and maintain a starter (I know this is a hotly debated issue, but surely there’s an entry level!) How much starter do I make in the beginning? What should I look for while the starter is developing (yes, I’ve done some research, but I’d like to hear from actual people with personal experiences, with whom I can exchange info and ask questions). When the starter is ready, how much do I add to the dough? And who pays for all the flour I’ll throw out while developing and maintaining the starter (just kidding. Kind of). Are all sourdough breads chewy and a bit tough, or are there versions with a softer crumb? Can I use the starter in any other kind of bread with beneficial results, or does sourdough starter, as the name implies, just for sourdough bread?

Believe it or not, I was the same way when I started baking straight breads. Fear is a bread killer!

Lemonie's picture
Lemonie

Cream Egg Brownies really rich

Thanks to Felila for linking the perfect brownie base for my cream egg Easter brownies in another thread.  I'm still tweaking these and have had a couple of tries.  I used 85% cocoa chocolate, I couldn't get unsweetened, and reduced the added sugar to 180g.  This makes the perfect base.  There wasn't enough of the creme egg filling on this version so am going to double for next time.

The problem at the mo is that these are SOOO RICH.  The sweetness is perfect as not too much but still really rich.  The recipe is below but what could I tweak to perhaps cut the richness a bit without losing the creme egg top.  I was thinking of subbing the chocolate in the brownie base for cocoa but not sure if that would work or how to do it?

Brownie Base

85g 85% chocolate
115g unsalted butter
180g granulated sugar
2 eggs
1 tsp vanilla ext
1/4 tsp salt
85g plain flour

Cream Egg Filling

120ml light corn syrup
56g unsalted butter
1 tsp vanilla ext
1/4 tsp salt
3 cups icing sugar

Choc Top

100g 85% chocolate
100g 90% chocolate
1 tbsp unsalted butter

Danni3ll3's picture
Danni3ll3

Hamelman’s 5 Grain Levain - Sort of...?

Leslie made some fantastic loaves with this recipe and since it was something that I had seen a number of people try and produce amazing loaves, I decided to give it a shot. Of course, I had to go and change the way the dough was put together. ?

 

I went ahead and used Trevor’s premix method but when it came to mix the soaker with the water and flour for the main dough, I realized that this was not going to work because a lot of the hydration came from the levain, and with the pre-mix method, the levain doesn’t go in till the next morning. So at first, I thought, no biggie, I will just steal some water from the levain and it will be all good. Well, uh! No! If I stole enough water from the levain to be able to mix the soaker with the flour, I was left with only 46 g of water to hydrate the 225 g of flour. So that wasn’t going to work. 

I was going to need to add a lot more water to the whole recipe. So I went with 70% hydration for the dough flour (the soaker had sucked up all of the water and didn’t look like it was about to give any back, it was that firm) and 80% hydration for the levain which came out to 13% more hydration than what Leslie posted in her recipe without the extra bits she added while making her dough. I crossed my fingers and hoped I didn’t end up with soup when I mix the levain in with the main dough in the morning. 

I also did one more change and that was to use the wholewheat flour in the levain instead of the a/p flour it called for. I wanted the bran to be softened by the acid in the levain. So the pre-mixed dough was all a/p flour. Our Canadian flour is ~13% protein (if you can believe the company’s claims) so I didn’t use any vital wheat gluten or high gluten flour.

And the last thing to note is that I scaled this for 3 boules of about 750 g.

Here is what I did:

Soaker:

80 g rye chops

80 g flax seed

70 g sunflower seeds

70 g oat groats

7 g sea salt

367 g boiling water

Main dough:

665 g unbleached flour

16 salt

465 g water

Levain:

46 g starter

180 g water

225 g Selkirk wheat

  1. Soaker: Mill the rye chops and the oat groats very coarsely. It ended up looking a bit like coarse salt. Coarsely grind the flax seeds. I did this in a magic bullet as the Komo mill people don’t recommend using oily seeds in their mill. Combine the above with the sunflower seeds and toast the entire mixture in a dry frying pan. Add the salt and the boiling water. Cover and set aside for a few hours.
  2. Premix: Measure out the water for the main dough, throw in the soaker and loosen it so there are no lumps. Add the salt for the main dough and then the flour. Mix well and put in the fridge for a few hours. Before going to bed, take the dough out of the fridge and let it sit overnight on the counter at room temperature.
  3. Levain: Mill the Selkirk wheat and sift out the bran. Remill the bran to make finer particles. Reserve. Before bed, dissolve the starter in the water for the levain, add the bran, stir well, then add the flour and mix. It will be a thick mix as this is 80% hydration levain using whole grain flour. Leave to rise in a warm place overnight.
  4. In the morning, add all of the levain. Mix well using folding and rolling until the levain is well distributed in the dough. Dough felt pretty sticky and loose, but the Levain mixed in easily. 
  5. Place in a warm place and do 3 sets of stretches and folds one hour apart. The dough came together nicely with the folds even though I could feel that the hydration was a lot more than what I usually work with. I had a gap of a couple of hours between the second and third fold because I had a lunch date with friends. I probably would have done hourly folds otherwise. I let it rise to 40-50%.
  6. Divide the dough and pre-shape gently by rounding the dough on a lightly floured counter. Let rest one hour, covered. Do a final shape by cinching and pulling the dough to make a fairly tight boule, but without deflating the dough. The dough felt quite soft but did support its own weight as a boule. Place seam side down in rice/ap floured bannetons and cover. Let proof on the counter for an hour and a half, and then put to bed for the night.
  7. The next morning, pre-heat the oven and the Dutch ovens to 475F. Place parchment rounds in the bottom of the pots and place the dough in seam side up. Score if desired. Cover and bake for 25 minutes at 450F. Remove lids and bake for a further 22 minutes at 425F.

 

Well the results were very little oven spring. I wonder if I should have added that vwg after all. I also wonder if the gluten in the Levain  degraded during the overnight rise. It did feel sort of very loose when I used it. Hopefully, the taste makes up for the appearance. I need to make this again but following Leslie’s procedure this time. 

Baker1905's picture
Baker1905

Large loaf with high 90% hydration soughdough baking time.

Hello bakers and enthusiasts! I have been reading your discussions for couple of months now. This website is an excellent source of information and various views, especially relating to soughdough baking. This evening, I am going to bake a highly hydrated soughdough, following Yohan's advice. His formula includes 90% hydration with 2% starter and 24 hours fermentation period. As I am not very experienced person, I need to know what is the best way of baking it? My plan is to bake it in a iron cast le casserole at 250 C. Due to the fact that I want to make a large loaf in one go (my dough is 1000 gr flour and 900 ml water), my quiery is how long shall I bake it for, provided that it is a relatively big piece? Should the le cassarole be necessarily preheated? Or is it acceptable to add the dough in it for final proof and then put it in the preheated oven? Thanks for your your thoughts in advance! 

leslieruf's picture
leslieruf

Last bake before holidays!! Happy days

Yesterday was the last day to top up bread for the next week plus leave some in  the freezer for when we return.

So Sunday overnight refreshed the starter, then Monday made 2 builds, converting it to 100% hydration and using bran for the 2nd build.  2nd & 3rd builds combined as we were going to be out until evening.  Before going to bed built the levains required for my bake.

Hamelman"s 5 grain Levain (pictured)

Soaker

Flaxseed 62 g

cracked rye 62 g

sunflower seed 52 g

Rolled oats 52 g

salt 5 g

Boiling water 276 g

Levain

Bread flour 169 g

Water 211 g (yes 125% hydration)

Mature starter seed 34 g

Final Dough

Hi gluten flour 338 g (I used bread flour + 11 g gluten to approximate 13.5% protein)

Wholewheat flour 169 g

Water 175 g

Salt 12.2 g

All the soaker

All the levain

 

Monday afternoon weighted out the seeds, gave the flaxseeds a quick grind in the coffee grinder so it was a mix of fine and coarse. I use jumbo rolled oats so gave them a quick chop the toasted all the grains and left to cool.  Amazing smell.  I haven't used toasted seed in this amount before.

Monday night before bed mixed the levain and left on bench.  Mixed the soaker allowed to cool then covered it.  It soaked up all the liquid very quickly.

Tuesday morning room temperature is 21 deg C.  Added water and soaker to the levain, mixed well then added to flour and salt mix. Mixed with stretch and folds until all incorporated.  It was pretty sticky and much firmer than I remember from the other occasions I have made  this. Left to rest for 10 minutes then did some for stretch and folds.  I added 2 tspn water (about 6 g) at this point as I felt it was a bit too firm. Left to rest. I did 3 more stretch and folds over next 3 hours then left to finish bulk ferment. 

This is after 2nd lot of stretch and folds. 

2 hours later I divided the dough and preshaped, it had increased maybe 40%. 

I left it for 45 minutes but it didn't relax hugely, but was easy to shape into 2 batards. Turned the oven on to preheat DOs. This time I bench proofed and about an hour or so later it was looking poofy so popped them into the oven 15 mins lid on at 250 deg and then 20 minutes lid off.  I kept the convection on during this bake to keep oven temperature up and it seemed to help. 

Here is the 2nd batard.  After my recent experiences with Tartine style Country Champlain the shaping, scoring etc was a breeze.

and of course, the crumb shot. 

Very happy camper!

At the same time I made 3 small (300 g) 1:2:3 sourdough boules.   I found this was a very firm dough as well, much more so than normal.  I have opened a new bag of gluten flour (from a different source) and I really wonder  if that is influencing things so much.  I am adjusting my 11% protein flour to 12.5% but previous bakes have been much wetter. 

These had 4 x 10 stretch and folds, 2 hour BF followed by 20 mins preshape  with about a 2 -3  hour proof. 

No crumb shot, these were frozen as is.

The final part of the bake was Trevor Wilson's Champlain.  I will post details on  "Anyone interested in a Champlain SD bake?" shortly.

The day went well, it was busy and I was on a schedule to get it all baked before I went out to a 7 pm meeting.  lol, hubby had to take the final 1:2:3 loaf which was the final one, out for me.   I am happy with the crumb from the 5 grain levain as this has such a lot of grain, but I think it is the best I have baked this bread!

Leslie

rudirednose's picture
rudirednose

1st try on 'WW Durum Greek Yogurt Bread' by isand66

the loaf

detail crust

 detail crust

detail cracks

 detail crust - cracks

crumb

 crumb

detail crumb center

 detail crumb center

detail crumb rim

 detail crumb rim

Here is the original!

I worked along the original formula as near as possible. But some little deviations had to be done.

First of all, as I always do, with 500 g total flour.

I have no white seed-starter, so I used my rye starter @ 100%, and, for longer ripening-time, only 20 g - 4 %.

I have no durum berries for milling, so I used coarse durum flour, normaly for pasta making. This worked fine with other breads bevore.

Instead of fresh milled WW I used a reminder coarse WW flour witch had a lot of bran in it. But now it is gone! ;-)

I took 5 g fresh yeast - 1 %, as most time.

During the first mixing after autolyse I had only a wet batter in my bowl, so I decided to add 20 g VWG - 4 %.

After adding the seasalt the dough got strength, after adding the yogurt the strength got better, after the olive oil one more.

Bulk for 1.5 h with s&f direct, and after 30 and 60 mn.

Shaping was difficult, but here on TFL I read an articel, that helped me a lot! So I gave to the dough 3 x 2 "tour simple" during 30 mn. Then into the linned and well dusted banneton and for 7 h into the fridge at 4C/39F.

Baking similar to here.

Waited until next morning bevor slicing.

This bread is gorgeous!Thank you, Ian!

Fine but complex taste, crisp crust, deliciouse crumb, super for sandwiches.

Next time I will try to mill my own Durum!

Happy baking

rudi

 

 

barnkeeper47's picture
barnkeeper47

"King's Loaf" holiday bread recipe NOT "King's Cake"!

In the 1950s my mother got a recipe for a yeast bread made in a circle with the ends 'folded' to resemble folded hands in prayer. The King's Roll has lots of candied fruits and ground up nuts and cinnamon with a light sugar glaze on top. It was normally baked at Easter and the Christmas holidays. This yeast bread is called "King's Roll." It is NOT the same as the "king's cake" found in so many southern bakeries. Many thanks.

Barnkeeper47

ayukwardhanie's picture
ayukwardhanie

Bagels too chewy

hi, i'm indonesian so bagels are not very popular here in my country. we rarely find some (even starbucks didn't have it regularly). so today was my 3rd time making bagels, my 1st and 2nd ended up with both unpleasant exterior look but tastes good anyway. it has that right saltiness and enough chewiness (altho i'm not sure t'was the right texture for bagels tho). today i kneaded by hand, used the exact same recipe and boiled the same way as it was yesterday, surprisingly i has that gorgeous "clean" look, enough brownish on it's crust but with VERY VERY CHEWY even my teeth couldn't cut it off instantly like you eat regular bread. it become super rubbery, you need efforts even to just tearing it off (by hand), not to mention by teeth. question is, am i REALLY doing it wrong? what kind of "chewy" texture it supposed to be like. fyi, since i kneaded by hand, i know the dough was rather tough (you know, not that kind of "regular" bread dough") maybe it needs more water hence it was TOO CHEWY? boiled one side for 2 minutes and 1 min on the other side. am i boiling too long?

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