The Fresh Loaf

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Juergen Krauss's picture
Juergen Krauss

Pane al Latte e Cioccolata - Got it right now :-))


I've made the Pane alla Cioccolata fron Carol Field's Italian Baker many times with great success, and I always wanted to try the Pane al Latte e Cioccolata, which brings milk bread and chocolate together.

However, I have some problems with the milk dough recipe from the first edition of the book.

/* UPDATE */

After input from lvbaker I recalculated the formula, and now I have a milk dough with the same hydration level as the chocolate dough. A charm to work with. My adjusted percentages are given below, here some new photos:

The bread on the rise:

The whole loaf:

Detail shot:

Pane alla Cioccolata:

"Sponge": Water 15%, Sugar 0.7%, Instant Yeast 1%

Dough: all of the "Sponge", Flour 100%, Water 47%, Egg Yolk 3%, Butter 3.8% Sugar 20%, Cocoa Powder 5%, Chocolate Chips 25%, Salt 1.6%, Total 222.1%

Pane al Latte

Sponge: Flour 25%, Milk 25%, Sugar 3%, Instant Yeast 0.6%

Dough: All of the sponge, Flour 75%, Milk 25%, Rum 3%, Egg 12%, Butter 10%, Salt 1%, Total 179.6%

/* OLD POST */

But first some photos of this spectacular bread:

The shaped loaves, resting:

After the bake:

Crumb of a third loaf, a braid:

This is very tasty, as you can imagine.

Now to my problem:

The recipe gives for the sponge of the milk dough the following quantities:

1 3/4 teaspoon dry yeast

1 tablespoon sugar

1/4 cup milk

1 cup less 1 tablespoon (135g) flour

Now, this is not enough liquid to hydrate the dough, and it definitely doesn't make the batter it should.

I am kind-of improvising,

but has anyone got the second edition of the Italian Baker? What quantities (% or g) are being used there?

Thanks a lot,




katiemetz's picture

Easter Bread Ring Yeast Quantity

Hello, fellow bakers!

I have a recipe for Rosca de Pascua, an Easter bread ring that is popular in Argentina. It calls for 2 1/4 tsp. instant yeast in the sponge, and then an additional tablespoon of instant yeast in the dough. I have successfully made this recipe three times, with good results. I'm just wondering if it's really necessary to use so much yeast, or if I could cut back on the quantity without suffering some sort of ill effects. Or should I go with the "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" school of thought?



Balazs's picture

Pita Bread


Few days ago, I was thinking what to do next day for lunch. I opened the fridge and found a pound of chicken breast fillet. On shelf has gyros spice in a small bottle. Hoorray! I do gyros. And pita bread of course. :)

Well, here is my pita bread.

UPDATE! Method is added.



Components of the dough for 4 pieces
200 grams of flour
0.75 teaspoon of yeast and salt
0.5 spoon of honey or sugar
0.5 cup of water (+0.25 cups if need it)
1 spoon of olive oil



Mix all components in a bowl and knead it. Rest the dough for 90 minutes. Then cut to four equal parts, shape a small ball and cover with kitchentowels. When balls rieses doubled, roll them out and put hot baking tray and bake for 5-8 minutes in 250°C.

Pita not be reversed on baking tray. If pita's top goes to brown than pita is ready.




Pita wasn't enough because of my two friends visited me and they also wanted eat gyros. :)



theuneditedfoodie's picture

Tartine Country bread

Tartine bread has been quite a quest, first in San Francisco, CA., and then here in my lovely little casa, where I basically toiled 25 hours for my two loaves of the basic Tartine country bread.  Let’s start the discussion with San Francisco, CA.; two months back when my wife and I were on vacation to that part of the world, we decided to visit some local bakeries there. Tartine bakery in the Mission district was one of the places we had decided to go. Unfortunately, when we did arrive there, we were told the loaves didn’t come out of the oven by 5pm, and then too there was no assurance if one would get anything or not. Personally, I was a little mystified by the person on the counter, who offered me no pledges even if I stuck around the area till 5pm. Evidently, later through my google searches and endless hours of browsing through the world wide web, I came to know that evidently the new policy of Tartine was that one had to call three days ahead to reserve any bread.. What kind of a bakery is this that even though you may stand long hours waiting outside there is no guarantee of a loaf; obviously there seems to be a problem. My reaction to that was in some ways similar to the SF Weekly’s Jonathan Kauffman, “screw all of you cult-of-Tartine members who use your insider knowledge to screw walk-in customers out of one little loaf of bread.” At least, I am not the only one grunting on my bad luck with Tartine.


To read more on Kauffman’s Tartine bread quest/grunt go here:


Personally, I was a little more than disappointed at Tartine, because in my quest to get loaves from Acme or even Linguria Bakery in North Beach, I didn’t have any major issues. I mean sure on December 24th, I stood 3 hours outside Linguria Bakery, starting at 8 am, to get some of their delightful focaccia, but at least I didn’t go back empty-handed.


A couple of months post my major disappointment at Tartine bakery, I eventually got a hold of their bread book in my library. In some ways, I thought this would be the perfect solace to my disappointment at their bakery. Perhaps, by baking the Tartine bread at home, I may be able to taste what exactly their bread feels/tastes like.


And so, eventually, on Feb 17th at 11.45pm, I started building its leaven. Now, the Tartine leaven asked for a tablespoon of the mature starter, alongside 200 grams of water with 200 grams of 50/50 flour blend (bread flour/ whole wheat flour).  In a perfect world, now that I look back at it, I should have fed the starter to make it more active and bubbly.  For it probably had been close to 3 days since I had last fed it. Perhaps, I was just little tired. Anyways, building the leaven process in the Tartine bread book suggested to leave it overnight. In the morning around 8.45am, I checked to see the leaven and it wasn’t all bubbly. So I dropped a spoonful of it into the bowl of water, to see if it was actually floating or not? Unfortunately, like Titanic my spoonful of leaven sunk too. This was a bad omen, because if the leaven had fermented perfectly, it would have floated, so I decided to increase the temperature of my proofer and kept the leaven there for 3 hours more. Post the 3 hours of wait, I did experiment the same thing, however, this time the results were positive.


The next step was to dissolve the leaven in 700 grams of water, and then gradually add the 900 grams of white flour and 100 grams of whole-wheat flour and bring it together by mixing with bare hands. After that the dough mixture was left to rest for 25 minutes, to what Professor Raymond Calvel (Julia Child and Simon Beck’s teacher for the bread chapter of Mastering the art of french cooking, Volume 2) termed the autolyse.


At the end of the resting period, 20 grams of salt and 50 grams of water were added to the dough mixture. It is after this step where I perhaps created my biggest blunder for the Tartine bread. After combining the salt and the second batch of water was the beginning of the bulk fermentation period for 3 to 4 hours. This is where I forgot to read further instructions, which clearly stated to fold the dough every 30 minutes. So after about 3 hours at 3.30 pm, when I actually did read further, I realized my blunder. So to make that up, in the next hour between 3.30-4.30pm, I actually folded the dough four times, at the interval of 15 minutes. Then in the period from 4.30 to 5.20pm, I folded twice again, at that point of time, I thought I could take out the dough and continue further, that is when disaster struck. The dough just came out as a beast from the sea and took over my wooden cutting board, and like the old man at the sea, I vigorously tried to scoop it with my scraper and tame it. Unfortunately, I couldn’t, clearly the gluten structure had not developed in the dough. So I put it back from where it came, in the glass bowl, and let it ferment for 2 hours more, folding it every 30 minutes. In the mean time, I jumped onto YouTube and started feeding myself with videos on working with higher hydration dough. I would say this procedure did help somewhat, because when I went back at around 7.20pm even though the dough was quite wet, I could work my way through to build two pancake like structures, which were left for 20 minutes on the cutting board.


Eventually, the time came to do the final shaping of the dough—though, in my case, not exactly. For after 3 hours of final proofing, when I tried to take out the dough, it was still quite wet and sticking to my proofing basket cloth, even though I had plenty of flour in there. Somehow, I managed to take the dough out of the basket-however, it had almost gone flat, so I had to shape it again- one last time, before I put it on parchment paper and scored it and then lifted it into the Dutch oven.  By the time I put my first bread in the Dutch oven, it was 10.30pm and by the time, I got to bake my second bread and clean the kitchen it was about 12.30 pm. Since, the loaves were still cooling, I decided to cut the bread the next day and waited with breath abated.


So the following day, I decided to have some of my Tartine bread with good old butter and some Thimbleberry jam, which a friend of mine got me from Michigan. I would definitely recommend this jam to all the jam lovers; in fact you can even order it online at Now, coming back to my bread, the crust and crumb were quite decent. The crust as I have previously, repeatedly said, in a home oven the best crust can only happen in a Dutch oven. The performance of the crumb was quite delightful. The wife was also pleased that the bread had a sour note to it. I am guessing my overnight leaven build, did help accommodate the sourness to it. Looking back on, I thought a lot of the members had varied feelings about the Tartine country bread. Some thought the recipe was just too long, which I can understand to a point, but then you tend to indulge in a lot of fine details that only helps you improve the overall performance of the bread. 

isand66's picture

Ciabatta with Carmelized Onions, Rye & Spelt Flours

The last time I made Ciabatta I made a sourdough version that came out quite good.  In my never-ending quest to try to create something new and hopefully great tasting I came up with the concoction below.

I decided to go with a straight forward yeasted version of Ciabatta but I wanted to get more flavor in the final product.  I happen to love onions, so I figured why not add some carmelized onions and to get some stronger wheat and nuttiness flavor in the bread I decided to use some spelt and rye flour along with a low protein French style flour from KAF.  This combination resulted in by far the best Ciabatta bread I have ever made or tasted in my not so humble opinion :).

I followed the standard operating procedures from Peter Reinhart's Artisan Breads Everyday for the Pain a L'Ancienne Rustic Bread and modified the ingredients as mentioned above.  The only thing I would change maybe is to add some cheddar cheese next time which would really put this one over the top.

You can really taste the onions and the rye-spelt mixture and the open crumb was nice and moist.

If you give this one a try I would love to hear what you think.

Here are the ingredients and procedure I followed:


13 oz. KAF French Style  Flour (you can use All Purpose if you don't have French Style)

4 oz. Medium Rye Flour

3 oz. Spelt Flour

16 oz. Ice Cold Water (55 degrees F.)

0.4 oz. Salt  (1 3/4 Tsp.)

.14 oz. Instant Yeast (1 1/4 Tsp.)

1 Tbs. Olive Oil

17.5 oz. Carmelized Onions


Cut up half of a medium size sweet onion and saute for 5-8 minutes on medium low in a frying pan or bake on a sheet pan in your oven.  Let the onions cool before adding them to the dough.

Add all the ingredients into the bowl of your mixer except the onions and stir for 1 minute on the lowest speed. The dough should be rather sticky and rough at this point. Let it rest for 5 minutes in the mixer bowl.

Add the cooled onions and mix on medium low using your paddle attachment for one minute. In my case I have a Bosch which only has one mixing/kneading attachment. The dough will still be very sticky but should very soft and much smoother. Transfer the dough to a lightly oiled bowl using a dough scraper or spatula. Cover the bowl and let it rest for 10 minutes.

After 10 minutes transfer the dough to a lightly oiled work surface. Make sure you oil your hands and do a stretch and fold on all sides of the dough and flip it over and form it into a ball. Put the dough back in the bowl and let it rest for another 10 minutes at room temperature. Do this stretch and fold process three more times over the next 30 to 40 minutes. You can do the stretch and fold in the bowl itself if you prefer. I personally like to do it on the counter.

After you do the last stretch and fold put it back in the bowl and cover it tightly and refrigerate overnight or up to 4 days. The dough should rise to almost 1 1/2 its size in the refrigerator.

Take the dough out of the refrigerator at least 3 hours before you plan to bake and let it sit at room temperature.  Around 1 hour after taking the dough out of the refrigerator, place a large piece of parchment paper either on your work area or the back of a baking pan and dust with flour to cover it completely. Using an oiled or wet dough scraper gently remove the dough to the work surface. You want to be very careful so you don't degas the dough and kill the big air holes you want to achieve.

Flour your hands and lightly dust the top of the dough. Use your hands and a metal dough scraper and form the dough into a 9" square and be very careful again not to manhandle the dough and degas it.

Next, cut the dough into either 3 small ciabatta or 2 larger size loaves. I opted to go with the 3 smaller size ones.

Gently fold the individual dough pieces into thirds like an envelope. Make sure to be very careful and not to apply any pressure. Roll the folded dough in the flour to coat it and lift it onto the parchment paper and roll it in the flour again. Rest the dough seam side down and repeat with the other piece(s) of dough.

Spray the tops of the dough with oil (I use a baking spray) and cover the pan with plastic wrap very loosely. You can also use a clean lint free kitchen towel.

After 1 hour of resting, roll the dough pieces very gently so the seam side is now facing up and lift them with your floured hands to coax them into either a 7" rectangle if making the larger size or 5" rectangle. Try to get them to be as close to a rectangle shape as you can when you put them back down on the parchment paper.

Let them rest covered loosely again for 1 hour.

About 45 minutes before baking, pre-heat oven with baking stone (I use one on bottom and one on top shelf of my oven), to 550 degrees F.

Place an empty pan in bottom shelf of your oven or a cast iron skillet.

Pour 1 cup of boiling water into pan and place loaves into oven. I also spray the side walls of the oven with water 2 to 3 times for added steam.

Lower oven to 450 Degrees and bake for 12 minutes and rotate the bread and bake for an additional 15 to 20 minutes until bread has a nice golden brown crust and the internal temperature reaches 200 degrees. The bread should have puffed up a little and should be hard when you tap it.

Let it cool on a wire rack for 45 minutes (good luck waiting that long!) and enjoy!

The bread should have nice large irregular holes and should be soft after cooling.

This post has been submitted to the Yeast Spotting Site here:

dabrownman's picture

teketeke Bread

In gratitude for all of her help in my yeast water bread quest, I created a YW bread named for Akiko,  that would be fitting for her graciousness, generosity and skill.  I made this bread today and it is everything I would want in a YW bread if it were to be named after me but, she is the one stuck with it now  :-)  Thanks again to Akiko also known as teketeke at TFL.  A great YW bread named after a great lady.

teketeke Bread - Japanese White Whole Wheat, Orange, Apple, Turmeric, Seeded YW Bread


 KA bread flour - 75g

KA White WW flour – 75g

Yeast water 115g

 Total levain build 265g – at 80 F

 First build - 25g of both flours and 50g yeast water.   Second build 4 hours later - 25g each flour and 65g YW.  Third build 25g of both flours = stiff levain.  Let sit 4 more hours.

 I use Mandarin, Minneola Apple Yeast Water 2 days after refreshing from the refrigerator and reserve the apple and orange solids for the bread.

 Final Dough

 KA bread flour - 200g

KA White Whole Wheat - 100g

Water - 75g

Orange Juice - 80g

Egg yolk - 1

Whipping Cream - 60g

Sugar - 6g

Honey -6 g

Butter - 29g

Salt - 6g

2 tsp each Nigella, chia and basil seeds (hanseata’s contribution)

¼ tsp turmeric – for color

Apple and orange solids, patted dry with paper towel,  from the previous YW refresh 2 days before levain build began.

The entire levain


 Make the levain - for 12 hours at80 F

 In stand mixer - mix the final ingredients, except the salt and reserved YW solids, with paddle at #2 - Autolyze for 30 minutes.

 Add the salt-- knead with dough hook starting on #2 and moving to #3 and #4  until the gluten develops to window pane stage for about 8-10 minutes.  Flatten, do S& F while incorporating the reserved YW solids into the dough.  Shape into ball and transfer to an oiled bowel and cover with oiled plastic wrap.

 Bulk ferment: 3 hours at 80 –82 Funtil the dough at least doubles.  Do one S &F at 30 and another at 60 minutes.

 Pre-shape fermented dough into ball and let rest 10 minutes.  Shape into loaf and place in oil sprayed 4 ½ x 8 ½ x 3 Pyrex loaf pan.  Cover pan with oiled plastic wrap.

 Proof:  2-6 hours at82 Funtil the dough at least rises up to the top of the pan.

 Preheat oven to450Fwith a loaf pan half filled with water and a12”cast iron skillet in the bottom of the oven and a stone on the next rack level above for 45 minutes.

 Decrease temperature to400F, throw a ½ cup of water into the cast iron skillet place bread into oven and bake for 12 minutes.

 Take out steaming apparatus, rotate loaf 180 degrees and bake for another 12 minutes.

 Place probe into the middle of the nearly finished loaf from the side and bake until the loaf hits205 Fturning 180 degrees every 4 minutes.  The loaf should be done in 28 minutes or so.  Turn off oven, take loaf out of pan, crack oven door open, place loaf back on stone and let the loaf sit in oven for 10 minutes more to crisp the crust.

 Remove loaf from oven and let cool to room temperature, about one hour, on a wire rack.




sonia101's picture

My first attempt at a gluten free sourdough loaf

It was a stunning day in Melbourne yesterday so I decided to bake my first gluten free sourdough loaf by the pool, I figured my day was going to end in disappointment with my bread so I might as well enjoy the sun while baking. lol

I pretty much played around (probably my downfall) and didn't really follow a recipe, I used flax seed oil and whey (from my homemade cottage cheese) instead of water. As you can see from the photos my loaf doubled in size so my starter must be doing it's job, so I'm really pleased with that part. The crust was good but I got zero oven spring, I baked the loaf in my dutch time I might try lowering the cooking temperature at the beginning and then turn it up???? Could also be my slashing??  The crumb was definitely bread like and not cake like and had a nice sour flavour, tho it was really dense, more like a rye bread.

All in all not a great loaf of bread but a great starting point.


Cheers Sonia


alpenrose's picture


I have to admit it--I am not comfortable with the idea of using yeast made in Mexic0. I have just travelled down there enough to see the condition of water, workers, etc. However, I did try --purchased at two different times 2 of the large bulk packages of SAF (red). It does not seem to me that I ever get as good a lift off of that as I do from the much more expensive Fleischman's in the jar (made in Canada). I have also read about SAF (gold), but have not tried it. I know, I know, they are all owned by the same French company!  I just want to get a very nice and reliable lift every time and to know that my yeast is really clean.  What are your thoughts?  Have you tried the SAF Gold?  Do you use the made in Canada in the bottle? How does the SAF red bulk work for you?  Am I just a klutz not handling my dough correctly?


dabrownman's picture

Pips Vollkornbrot - Nearly 100% Rye with A Tiny Bit of Spelt

I pretty much followed Phil's post, except my pan was 4 x 2 3/8 x 8 and much smaller in height, so I baked it less time at 2 higher temp and added a lower setting that Phil didnlt use.  I did 45 min at 375 F, 45 min at 300 F and 30 min at 225 F. When I checked the middle of this small loaf was 210 F so I called it done and let it sit in the oven with door ajar oven off for 10 minutes.  205 F would have been a better internal temperature for sure but you can't get everything you want.  It smelled great right out of the oven, not as dark as Phil's due in part to to my rye berries not being very dark ones at all.

When it rose and inch in 30 min starting at the 2 hour mark of final proofing and started to crack, like Phil said it would as a signal to bake it off, I put it in the oven.  I did wait 2 days to cut and try a slice as Phil recommended, but I'm sure 1 day wouldn't make that much difference would it?.  The crust was firm but not hard.  The loaf was easy to cut in 1/4" slices - no worry.  The crumb was actually airy with small holes throughout.  It was also soft yet still chewy, moist and just plain delicious.  Buttered and lightly toasted was also exactly what i expected.  After marketing, selling and delivering Rubschlager Rye Breads for 20 years, I have a taste for fine rye breads and this one reminds me of Rubschlager Rye Breads only more rustic and chewy.  It also looks more rustic than Phil's crumb too.  Maybe I had a larger granules in the soak and scald? It is a keeper for sure.

Here is a lonk to Rubschlager

I am very happy with Phil's Rye as a first try at a 100% rye (if you discount the spelt) for me - thanks for all of your help Phil and Jay (longhorn). It was really not bad at all as long as you are ready and can handle the wetter mass of the dough.  I just floured up my hands and board and shaped on it, plopped it in the oil sprayed pan seam side down and smoothed out the top.  I am glad I was only doing small loaf :-)   Since no high temps required I baked it in my mini oven on a sheet pan, with a larger loaf pan over the top of the aluminum foil covered smaller pan that had the bread in it.  When I bake this again I am going to double the baking time and reduce the heat even further following Phil's advise again.  I think I might try one of Andy's rye breads next if I can find one not too difficult.  Here are some pix's.


frenchcreek baker's picture
frenchcreek baker






MARCH 10-15, 2012

Günter Franz 

Guest Instructor European Master Baker

                              Small Class Size         Hands-On         Wood Fired Oven 


Learn the inside secrets to making European baked goods and specialty German breads. 

Master creating superb artisan breads baked in a Mugnani wood-fired oven.

Discover the art to producing fine European pastry in a home kitchen.

Artisan Breads:

Sourdough; Rye; Whole Wheat; White; Multigrain; Root; Rolls & Bread Sticks; & German Pretzels


European Pastries:

Croissants, Danish Pastry, Stollen, & Other Assorted Pastries

Option 1 Cost: $1200   (10% discount Fresh Loaf Members)

5-Days hands-on instruction, course

recipes, all meals, & B&B lodging

Option 2 Cost: $800

Without accommodation

To Register:

Contact:  PAT HAINS   360-791-8928

2525 Beaver Creek Drive SW

Olympia, WA  98512

Instructor Bio:

Günter Franz, Master Baker

Weinheim, Germany

Innovative, Creative, Cutting Edge! 

Mr. Franz began his formal training in baking and confectionery while still in his teens. He received his Master Baker status at the age of 23. Several years later, he passed the exam in business administration. 

He has spent his career in large and small bakeries as a baker, confectioner and manager. He has been an instructor for young people in the baking profession for 30 years. For the last four years, he has been employed at the Akademie Deutsches Bäckerhandwerk/International Baking Academy in Weinheim, Germany. 
Günter is currently training students from around the world in the art of baking. Join us for this unique opportunity in German baking at its very finest!