The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

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copyu's picture

Can you really tell bleached from unbleached flour?

Hi all,

I hope this topic hasn't been 'done to death' already, but I was wondering...Can any of you guys actually see (or taste? or feel?) a difference between bleached and unbleached wheat flours? My search of this topic on TFL yielded lots of cries for help that usually start: "My recipe calls for unbleached APF, but..." and the usual responses are to visit KAF online.

SOME BACKGROUND: I live in Japan and, last Xmas, I went to Australia, where I picked up a lot of groceries that are either completely unobtainable [or 'almost unobtainable'] here and shipped the stuff back to Japan. My 'stash' included 1kg of 'organic unbleached plain flour'. To be quite honest, I can't tell, by looking at it, that it's any different from the usual "Nisshin" brand of plain/regular flour that every supermarket sells here. We also have a 'specialty' baking store that sells a huge variety of goods, with a slant towards home bread-baking. However, I can't tell any difference in color among their flours—or between them and the regular flours that I can buy in the supermarket. I can't see any difference, either, between the specialty flours and the Aussie unbleached. Recently, a very good flour called "Kobe Flour" with 11.8% 'gluten' has appeared on supermarket shelves at a very good price—for me, that's a good 'bread flour'. I've been told (by a University Professor, who is also a home-baker and actually teaches baking techniques as a volunteer) that you can't get unbleached flour here. [I later found out she wasn't 100% correct—it's for sale online at about US$5 per pound from the "Foreign Buyers' Club" Japanese website.]

So, I'm wondering—what is all the fuss about? Japan has virtually the same rules as the EU for imported flours. Top of the list: NO BROMATED FLOUR is allowed to be imported. I don't know what bleaching, if any, IS permitted, however. Is it *just possible* that all of the US / Canadian flour we buy here is just your regular, non-organic, unbleached flour? If there's a visible difference, would someone please let me know what I'm missing? Thank you!


RiverWalker's picture

Fleischmann's "Instant Dry Yeast"

so my fiancee's dad does a little baking, and got a really good deal on some yeast at sam's,(like, two pounds for under 5 bucks) but way more than he can use(since he doesn't bake bread all that much) so he gave me some. great! I figure it'll be a clear bag of basic, run of the mill active dry yeast.  no problem.

instead I get a vacum packed 1lb brick of "Instant Dry Yeast".  now this is good, isn't it? I mean its the stuff that the books seem to prefer, not the weird single rise stuff or whatever, right?

the ingredients listed are "yeast, sorbitan monostearate, ascorbic acid".

if it is the regular stuff (Fleischmann's equivalent of the "SAF Red" that everyone seems to love) then thats extra awesome, just slightly concerned that theres a good REASON it was so cheap, aside from being at sams club. 

proth5's picture

Open letter to "my teacher"

I always thought that you were logging in to these pages and today in a confluence of our two time zones and personal schedules, it was confirmed.

You never seem to post here, but I am sure that many people would love to hear from you.

You are not the person who taught me to bake.  I had been home baking for many years before I knew who you were.  But you were the person who brought all of that baking into focus; who taught me how to learn to learn this craft.  (Just too bad how old I was at the time... jeez...)

You did not teach me everything I know.  According to your own words, you will be glad to hear this. But you have inspired much of that learning.  A casual word tossed my way (probably just to get me stop asking endless questions) led to months and months of reading about milling techniques - countless hours of milling and observing - and when all is said and done, some pretty unusual results.

You said something to me once that implied that I might not have been proud to have learned from you.  I don't know why you would think that (probably as a result of my not "naming names"), but I am.  On these pages I name you only as "my teacher" so as not to add your credibility to my own. "Her baking teacher," the reader might think, "well, that proth5 is still crazy." I can be disregarded.  That is how it should be.  Of course, this being the internet - you could have said "Me - that's me..." at any time.

So, here I will thank you for all the unwitting inspiration you threw my way. Thanks for having the (limited) patience will all my questions.  Thanks for teaching me the "not fun" technical stuff.  Thanks for the great quips and quotes.  If you haven't seen me around, it is not only because of the stupendous effort it takes for me to travel to your location, but because you gave me the very best piece of advice - which is that I need to go and do the baking.  That's where I spent my "non working" time in the past year.  You might have read about it on these pages.  However, if you know how to make those lovely loaves with the parquet like crust that I posted a while back, you could do me a big favor and explain it to me.  It would save me a lot of experimenting.  Really.  It would help me out a lot.

I hope you are having a good time at Europain.  Trust me, I would be there (oh, any excuse will do for a trip to Paris...) except for the fact that I am on an island on a whole other ocean.

Je vous prie d'accepter l'expression de mes  sentiments distingués.

"your student"

inlovewbread's picture

Steamed Bread Chemistry ?

I steamed my first chinese bean paste buns yesterday (boy were they good!) and was struck by the difference in taste and texture of the steamed bread. I wondered what was going on chemistry-wise with the starches, sugars, etc. I know there is an explanation out there for what happens when dough is steam cooked rather than baked. I have the basic bread chemistry down on baked bread, but would like to know about steamed. It still has oven spring, but is quite different in texture (chewy, more dense, starchier?) and does not appear to brown if at all. No Maillard reaction? Also it seems that most steamed breads are enriched. What would happen if a lean dough was steam cooked? (I'm saying steam "cooked" to differentiate from bread that is steamed for the first part of baking, i.e. baguettes).

Does anyone know? Dan DiMuzio, Steve B, Debra Wink perhaps?

Some other questions:

I know of Boston Brown Bread and other similar recipes that can be steam cooked all the way through in a steamer, in cans in a dutch oven or crockpot, et. But are is there any precedence for a bread that is steamed and then baked to add a crust? Would there be any taste, texture benefit to doing so?

I appreciate any interesting scientific insights, personal experiences, historical anecdotes, etc. :-) 


JohnMich's picture

Croissants - a video demonstration.

Hi all! I'm new here and hope I can make a contribution. The ABC, the Australian Government owned TV (and radio) network has a new cooking show Poh's Kitchen and the first episode included a video demonstration by a very well-known French pastry chef on how to make croissants.

The video (no. 1 - the 10 February episode) should be available from the page you get when you click on  Goodluck!

Regards, John


Shauna Lorae's picture
Shauna Lorae

Island Banana Bread

I had three very ripe bananas to use up so I was looking around for a banana bread recipe that did not call for a lot of sugar or butter. I found an amazing looking recipe on King Arthur Flour's website for Banana Pina Colada Muffins ( These muffins were beautiful; banana batter studded with dried pineapple chunks, topped off with a delightful shredded coconut crown. My only problem was I didn't have any butter so I kept searching until I found a recipe for Island Banana Bread on Vegetarian Times website ( This one is vegan but I decided to alter it to suit my tastes. The following recipe is a fusion of the two differen recipes into my own very own Island Banana Bread:


2 c. White Whole Wheat Flour

1/4 c. Soy Flour

2 tbsp. Dried Buttermilk Powder

1 tsp. Baking Powder

1 tsp. Baking Soda

1/2 tsp. Sea Salt

1/4 tsp. Nutmeg

1 c. Diced Dried Pineapple (or other dried fruit: dates, apricots, etc.)

1/2 c. Raisin Puree (or prune puree)

1 1/2 c. Mashed Ripe Bananas

1/2 c. Packed Brown Sugar

2 Eggs

1 tsp. Rum

3/4 c. Orange Juice

1/3 c. Shredded Coconut


1. Preheat oven to 350F and prepare a 9x5" loaf pan with canola oil.

2. Combine & set aside: white whole wheat flour, soy flour, dried buttermilk powder, baking powder, baking soda, sea salt, and nutmeg.

3. Mash together raisin puree and bananas.

4. Beat in: brown sugar, eggs, rum, and orange juice.

5. Stir in flour mixture all at once, stirring gently to combine.

6. Fold in pineapple.

7. Pour batter into pan and sprinkle with shredded coconut, pressing it down gently into the batter.

8. Bake til knife inserted into the center comes out clean (about an hour).


The result was a beautiful banana loaf, laden with sweet bits of tender pineapple and decorated with a toasty coconut crust.

juliesbass's picture

Flat Bread Recipe

I have searched the entire internet (I think) ha ha , I am looking for a recipe for a flat bread , similar to Taco Bell's Gordita bread , I was wondering if anyone here knows where I might find a recipe , or even have one .

Thanks to All !!


bakinbuff's picture

A testament to soaking...

I've read a number of places on this fantastic site about the benefits of soaking whole grain flours before incorporating them into a dough, and I happened to give it a try yesterday while preparing today's loaf of bread, a Rosemary and Thyme Sourdough Boule.  While I was preparing the fresh herbs, I added the usual amount of (hot) water to the 1 cup of wholewheat flour I wanted to use in the dough.  That soaked while I stripped the thyme off the stalks and chopped the rosemary needles.  I threw the herbs on top of the soaking flour (and incidentally, I had also added the tablespoon of olive oil I generally add to my loaves to the water before adding the flour, don't know if that made any difference).  Anyway, being as this was the first time I had soaked the flour, and adding to that the fact that this was the first boule I've used exactly half and half of whole wheat and strong white flour, I was really, really pleased with the result!  The hydration was no different with this loaf than my other loaves, but I believe the soaking is what resulted in a gorgeously moist and light and fairly open crumb, despite the higher than usual proportion of whole wheat (and therefore lower than usual proportion of higher gluten white flour).  Anyway, I just wanted to encourage anyone who is considering increasing the amount of WW they use in their bread, but doesn't want to sacrifice lightness and moistness of the loaf (wholewheat doesn't have to be dense and dry!) to give soaking a try.  Another thing of interest to me was that usually when I use more wholewheat than usual, I find I have to add a little extra water to compensate, and sometimes I can't quite get the dough moist enough before kneading is done so the end result is on the dry side, which can be very frustrating.  However, with this loaf I used exactly the same amount of water as usual, and the resulting dough was the perfect combination of stickiness (stuck to my hands but not the counter), and even required a tiny bit of extra flour in the kneading process!  I have read that wholewheat soaks up water quickly, then releases some of it again after a period of time, so my conclusion is that it must soak up a lot of the water straight away when not soaked, and not get the time to release it again before kneading begins.  I'm no expert, and this certainly wasn't a controlled experiment, but from now on I will be soaking my wholewheat flour!

txfarmer's picture

Blueberry Cream Cheese Braid

The recipe is from right here on this site: , thanks, Floyd! I kept the dough a tad too wet at first, but easily corrected by adding a bit of flour.



This is not bread, it's cake!


norco1's picture

freezing yeast

I recently purchased a lb package of instant yeast. The contents can last for months before they are  depleted. Will freezing the yeast effect its performance when used in time?