The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Most bookmarked

  • Pin It
Shiao-Ping's picture
Shiao-Ping

Le Pain de Seigle de Thiézac (The Rye Bread of Thiézac)

Thiézac, a village 30 km from Aurillac (260 km north-east of Toulouse, France) has a reputation of pure rye bread.  Just the sound of it is beautiful to me.  When I read about it in Mouette Barboff's Pains d'hier et d'aujourd'hui (page 64 - 67), I felt that had to try it.  I am mesmerized by the rye bread photo and crumb shot in the book, full of soul.  The book has the most beautiful bread photos I have seen anywhere.


What struck me about the crumb of the Thiézac pure rye sourdough bread is its deep caramelized color.  A forum post by Danubian at Sourdough Companion, entitled "Dark" or "Black" colour to rye bread in June 2007 says that the dark rye bread "colour is achieved by method rather than adding an ingredient that imparts 'colour'."   


I had to consult several on-line French translators to get some sense out of the Thiézac recipe and even then I still have puzzles.  For instance, about "5 à 6 kg de levain de 3 jours," to build up the levain over 3 days to 5 - 6 kg?  I guess so; but how many feedings a day, and, more importantly, what is the flour to water ratio for refreshing the starter?  And, stand the levain at room temperature for the whole time?  


There is a knowledge bank at TFL regarding rye sour and rye flour in general, but I am really not interested enough on the subject to study.  My family and myself are not rye enthusiasts.  But anything "pure," as in the case here, I am all for it.  A pure rye bread makes me want to try it and ... dream about it.


So, here it is... the result of my dream:


 


               


  


     


 


                                                       


 


Now, I have to warn you that my result is quite different from what was in Mouette Barboff's book that inspired me.  For a start, from what I can ascertain accurately from the formula figures, the overall dough hydration in the Thiézac recipe is only 53%!  I cannot work on a dough with that hydration!  I kept adding water until a medium soft consistency was obtained and reached 76% hydration.  Further, the Thiézac rye bread has diamond scoring (3 cut on one direction and another 3 cut on another direction).  My dough was too wet to attempt at any scoring.


 


                     


 


This bread is sour, too sour for my family.  Because of the whole rye flour used, it also has a very nutty flavour.  The aroma is simply amazing when it came out of the oven.


           


                     


 


My crumb looked similar to the one in the book.  To my way of thinking, if I had done the dough at 53% hydration, the crumb would have been much denser.  I can only surmise that the village bakers' formula is only a guide - they would add water on the spot if they think the dough needs more water irrespective of the formula.  But I don't know for sure.


Well, as nice as the bread is, my family is not the slightest interested in it.  


 


                      


 


I have to pile up with something else that they like for them to eat it.  And here it is:


            


                          


                             Smoke Salmon & Salad with a Dill Sour Cream Spread on Pure Rye Bread


 


For any one who is interested, my formula of this rye sourdough follows:


Day 1



  • 10 g any ripe starter at any hydration

  • 35 g medium rye flour

  • 35 water


Mix and leave it in room temperature until doubled, then move it into the refrigerator.


Day 2



  • 80 g starter (all from Day 1)

  • 80 g medium rye flour

  • 80 g water


Procedure same as Day 1.


Day 3



  • 230 g starter (all but 10 g from Day 2, reserve 10 g for future endeavour)

  • 230 g medium flour

  • 230 g water


Mix and leave in room temperature for 6 hours or until it doubles.  (Note: I cut short one day here.  The Thiézac recipe does this 6 hour feeding one day 4; ie, using "levain de 3 jours.")


Final Dough



  • 690 g starter (all from above)

  • 345 g whole rye flour

  • 345 g medium rye flour

  • 440 g water

  • 20 g salt

  • 2 g instant yeast (or 2 x 1/3 tsp)


Total dough weight was 1842 g and the overall hydration was 76%.


 


         


 



  1. Mix all ingredients and knead for 2 minutes by hand or by plastic scraper.

  2. Oil a clean bowl and place the dough in there.  Cover.

  3. Bulk ferment for 2 hours at a warm spot of your kitchen.  (My room temperature was 28C.)

  4. Upturn the dough onto a well-dusted surface.  Lightly gather the edge of the dough to the centre, turn the dough over, and lightly shape it into a boule.  Sprinkle some flour on the top. 

  5. Sprinke some flour on a piece of baking paper.  Place the dough on the baking paper.  Cover, preferrably with a big bowl, so the surface of the dough remains untouched.

  6. Proof for one hour (and in the mean time, pre-heat the oven).

  7. Bake with steam at 240C for 10 minutes, then turn the heat down to 200 C and bake for a further 40 to 50 minutes.  


 


Shiao-Ping

thewat's picture
thewat

Italian sesame / olive oil flat bread / cracker?

A year or two ago I spent a week in Marche, Italy, and at two separate bakeries - one in Ancona and one just South - I bought a flat bread / cracker, 1/2 to 3/4 inch thick, loaded with olive oil & sesame & sunflower seeds. It was thick & crunchy but not dry tasting (because of all the olive oil). I could see the sunflower seeds & taste the sesame. It looked like it had been a really wet dough, cooked in a rectangular pan. The second place I got it said it was called "Pizza Seca." I can't find anything like it, either in my books or on the web. Anyone know? I found it slightly addictive. 

Roger A Hoffman's picture
Roger A Hoffman

Doughnuts

Has anyone offered info re: yeasted doughnuts? I'm new here and since I just made a batch of great baked doughnuts, I thought I'd ask. roghoff@verizon.net

calliekoch's picture
calliekoch

La Brea Bagels

I received a copy of "Breads From La Brea Bakery" for Christmas and today made the bagels from it. I have made bagels from other recipes 3 or 4 times before and had reasonable results. These were by far the best looking ones. I have yet to taste them but they are also the first bagels I have made using sourdough so I think they will be good.


The recipe calls for both white starter and all white flour. I always keep my starter whole wheat and also replaced half the flour with whole wheat. Otherwise, I followed the recipe. For toppings I used poppy seeds, sesame seeds, cinnamon & sugar, and a couple were left plain.


For anybody interested in making these, the Wild Yeast website has a post based on the La Brea bagel recipe.Bagels


Bagels close


Callie

gckingbread's picture
gckingbread

Italian Star Bread

Does anyone have a recipe for italian star bread?  This is a braided bread with a smooth crust and a chewy but fluffy crumb.  It is popular in Springfield Massachusetts but I can't seem to find a recipe for it.  It may be of Scicilian origin.


Thanks

Feelin Crumby's picture
Feelin Crumby

East Coast Bakers?

Are there any other TFL-ers in the Baltimore, Washington, Wilmington, DE area (southern PA, too)? I'd like to talk to any members that might be close about sharing cost of buying bulk ingredients. I live in northern Maryland, pretty much right on the I-95 corridor. I know of KA flour distributors in both Maryland and Pennsylvania. Ciao for now. Jim

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Pizzas at Pelican Point

In addition to the Greek bread, about which I wrote yesterday, I made a couple of pizzas while visiting with family this week. I used the pizza dough formula in Hamelman's bread, but used Pivetti typo 00 flour from nybakers.com, made the dough with sourdough rather than commercial yeast, and did all the mixing by hand. 



Ham & Pineapple Pizza 



Chanterelle, Crimini, Leek, Olive, Mozzarella and Parmesan Pizza



Slice



Jonathan & Glenn watching Pizza TV


The chopped veggies were for the fab barbecued turkey gumbo brother Glenn made for dinner. The pizzas were just an appetizer.


David

Shiao-Ping's picture
Shiao-Ping

Miche 50/50/50

I read in MC's beautiful blog, farine-mc.com, that Miche is not her favorite bread but that she can understand how someone can go wild about it.  She said, "It is a majestic bread ... rich with the lore and fervor of the old days."    That is exactly how I feel about Miche!  "... rich with the lore and fervor of the old days." 


The word, Miche, conjures up for me images of a past full of hardship and labour, and yet, romances, at the same time.  Romances, not in the true sense of the word, but in a nostalgic way, referring to the simple, unsophisticated, and natural way of living.


One of the pseudo-Miche I made was Sourdough 50/50 nearly four months ago.  I was not happy with the bread at the time and had wanted to re-make it ever since.  But, No, I had to do something slightly different.  I could not even follow my own script.  I introduced one more element into my Sourdough 50/50 to make this Miche 50/50/50.  In addition to 50% levain, and 50% Poolish, of the final dough flour, I added 50% old dough.  The old dough was a piece of dough reserved from a previous bake a couple of days ago.  This piece of dough did not go through bulk fermentation or proofing.  It was sectioned off and placed in the refrigerator straight away.


Apart from being whimsical and having fun, I had but one purpose for doing this - to see how adding a piece of old dough would improve the flavour of the crumb, along with the levain and Poolish which I already had.  This is nothing new.  Many people have done something similar.  And here is my Miche 50/50/50:


 


                


 


                                                         


                        


 


 In order to be able to score the dough easily, I went for an overall lower hydration of 63%, compared to 68% for Sourdough 50/50.  I wanted to have some sort of Chinese tofu look  on the crust.  As a result, I gave up some openness of the crumb.


  


               


 


                        


 


The crumb was exceptionally flavourful, which might come through the close-up shot below:


 


                             


 


The crumb is very sour to my taste, due to the lower hydration too. 


When I prepare my Poolish, I did not put in a pinch of instant yeast, which one would normally do.  I wonder if this has anything to do with the slightly dense interior structure of the Miche.


If you are interested in trying the idea in this post, I would suggest a dough hydration of no lower than 67 - 68%, and definitely a pinch of instant yeast to go with your Poolish!


 


                                             


Shiao-Ping               

CaptainBatard's picture
CaptainBatard

It takes a village to raise a Pan D'oro....

It takes a village to raise a Pan D'oro... the village is all the people who impart their knowledge and encouragement here at the  Fresh Loaf and out in the blogosphere.  I really want to thank Susan@ Wild Yeast for her step by step directions and formula , MC@Farine and Foolishpoolish and many more for sharing their experience and inspiring baking blogs....without them i would still be making quick breads.


Pan D'oro, or bread of gold, and it's cousin Panetonne, have a long history in Italy dating back to when ancient Romans sweetened a type of leavened bread with honey. In Italy and France, the panettone comes with an often varied history, but one that invariably states that its birthplace is in Milan (Wikipedia) Throughout the ages this "tall, leavened fruitcake" makes cameo appearances in the arts: it is shown in a sixteenth century painting. The Pan D'oro is, by any stretch of the imagination, not a quick bread. It takes time and patience, but what it really takes to raise a Pandoro is millions and millions of beasties that make up the strong sweet starter. I also found an interesting scientific explanation of the whole fermentation process here and time table that I will read when I have some time. I have seen pictures of Lievito naturale legato or bound sourdough and it still remained a mystery. I basically used a 100gr starter-50w-100f with a 4 hour refreshment cycle at 85* and it worked just fine.


 


                                                                                  


 


Another important consideration is the temperature of the Lievito naturale during fermentation... a whopping 85*, it being winter in the North East and my house hovering around 62-65*(by choice). I would have to fall back on the old pot holder trick (3 folded pot holders=76*) in the stove door with the light on. It works in a pinch but, I always run into this problem of proofing temperature. In the summer it is too hot (I can't bake or i have to use ice water baths) and in the winter it is too cold. I've been tooling around with many ideas on how to make a proofer work... a small car refrigerator/cooler or wine vault for the summer and a heater/light bulb for the winter. The Pan D'oro made it happen. I turned again to the internet village bakers and found a design for a proofer that Steve@Bread cetera posted @Fresh Loaf, and I took it a step further. I went looking for a thermostat for reptiles.... ended up at Craigs list with the perfect solution... a Ranco ETC microprocessor =based temperature controller thermostat that plugs into the heating unit or refrigeration system. It really takes the prize and i got it for a good price from a home brewer who started making babies and his wife made him stop making suds. So I now have a proofer in my insulated pantry cabinet that i can set at any temperature and forget about. Well almost... you have to remember the basics: set your timer and remember what temperature you set it at last!


 


                                                                                         


 


Well.. can you tell what is coming? I crawled into bed about 1 o'clock after making chocolate biscotti, a batch of sour dough challah, stollen and got the Pan D'oro tucked away for it's final rise. It took me a minute to fall asleep but I woke up startled from a dream of sugar plum fairies way too early! I lay in bed thinking I had till noon before I would have to bake them off... and then it hit me..."Oh S***t...I left the proofer set at 85*!" I ran down the stairs and opened the door to the proofer and just laughed when i saw the dough going way over the top of the mold. I quickly turned on the stove to pre-heat and made some coffee. The overflow problem was two fold. When I went on line to see how much dough my Italian mold would take, I made an incorrect assumption. The smaller Portuguese molds takes 500gr. so I thought for that for this big mold, 1000grs did not seen out of line. Wrong. But it was a mistake that could be easily fixed and no one would know  (and Sara and I got to taste what I had to cut away.) I must say.... the stollen and the Pan D'oro were the exclamation points to a delicious Christmas Day dinner at Rick and Rita's. (Folks liked the Challah and the double-dipped chocolate biscotti too. )   Hapy New Year to all.




                                                


 


                                                


 


                                           


 


 


                                 




                                                                        I am submitting this to Susan@Yeastspotting

HUGO's picture
HUGO

A mock sour dough loaf

Has anyone tried to create a sour dough using lemon juice, various vinegars, buttermilk, or even vitamine C ?   I notice that my sourdough starter weakens the gluten and changes the texture compared to commerical yeasts. Also the crumb seems to have much smaller holes in the crumb using a sourdough starter.  ANY REPLY WOULD BE MOST WELCOME    Happy New Year to everyone.

Pages