The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

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dmsnyder's picture

Dutch/Flemish whole wheat bread: Recipe wanted.

When visiting Holland and Belgium, we were served an extraorinarily delicious whole wheat bread for breakfast, either sliced loaves or rolls. It was not sourdough. It seemed to be consistant from city to city and between the two countries, so I assume it is "traditional" in the region. I would love to be able to bake it at home, but I've not been able to find a recipe.

 Does anyone know what this bread is called, and does anyone have a recipe for it?



eagleswings's picture

Help! Starter is I need the right bread recipe!


I have ground my own grain and made my own whole grain bread (nothing white) for two years now. I have wanted to do sourdough rye for a long time, and finally decided to try to make a starter. I followed the recip with the 2 T. rye flour and 2 T. pineapple juice. Today is day 6 and it is expanding, bubbly, fluffy, is smelling sour and yeasty, and makes a neat sound when you stir it down. :) I;m so excited!! My only problem is I don;t know which sourdough rye bread recipe to use with this starter!! Help! I've found recipes using white flour- with starters that are made using 1 c. flour and 1 c. water, but this starter used much less flour and liquid and I'm afraid I'll get the measurements all wrong. Can someone help me?

I need a whole grain recipe for sourdough bread using the juice starter.

I also have a few other questions, being new to the sourdough experience:

1. When will I know my starter is strong enough to make bread with? The recipe on this site mentioned allowing the flavor to develop by discarding/feeding for two weeks??

 2. Am I really supposed to disgard all of it except 1/4 c. EVERY DAY and keep adding the 1/4 c. water and 1/4 c. flour? Is this like forever? It seems like such a waste. :(

3. When I do I know to store it in the fridge?


It is so beautiful right now and I don't want to waste any time. So, if someone has a really great recipe that worls well with this starter and whole rye, could you please post it or point me in the right direction? Thanks so much!

CountryBoy's picture

Rose L. Beranbaum Rye Bread

I have a problem and would like advice that anyone could provide.  My rye bread is waxy rather than light and chewy.  Do you know what I mean?  I have tried this recipe 4 times and I am not improving.  Could you advise?  Please note that she expressly suggests Bread flour for this recipe.

The following is the recipe I am following.  I quote it in full so you will know my process for this.

Basic Rye Bread-This Yields 3 Loaves…

The Sponge
6…Cups of wrist-temp water
2  tsp … active dry yeast
3 .…Cups Bread flour
3 Tbs .. of Honey 
3 ….Cups of rye

Additional Flour: mix the below items altogether
9….cups unbleached bread flour
1 … Pkg of active dry yeast
4….. Tbs. of Vegatable oil or 4 Ts of butter
Optional: 6 Tbs of Caraway seeds to soak in evening before..
2 ½ ….. Tbs.  sea salt before kneading

DAY I: Sponge
o Place 3 Cups water in large bowl; sprinkle in yeast; wait 10-20 mins. 
o Beat in The Sponge Ingredients; should be thick batter consistancy.
o Cover the bowl, wait for 1-2 hours.
o Put in fridge overnight 8-24 hrs.
o Next day take out and allow 1-2 hours to warm.

DAY II: Mix, etc.
? Add the Addt'l flour 1 cup at a time, graduating from wooden spoon. 
? When all the flour is added then allow to set for 1-4 hours.
o Levy says autolyse not necessary.
? Do Bulk Ferment:Kneade on 2 different occasions
o As needed at 1 hour + intervals; w/2 foldings at Each interval.
?  Divide Wait ½ hour and then form loaves.  .
? Put in oiled pans and then wait 1-2 hours to rise.
?  Meanwhile preheat oven to 450 degrees.
?  Brush top with water for crust.
?  S L A S H….. ½ ''. 

?  Put in oven at 400 degrees;  Bake for 20 mins.  And then tent appropriately.
? Open door to release the steam w / spoon.
? Then bring down heat to 375 for 40 mins. 
? Per Levy, with Rye necessary to bake 60  mins. !!!!!!
? Note:
o Allow to cool in oven
o Allow 6-12 hours to realign before cutting and eating.

dolfs's picture

Happy Halloween "Double" Pumpkin Bread

My wife loves pumpkin and so I'd been having this idea of making some kind of pumpkin bread, but I wasn't sure what recipe. Yesterday I happened to pick up Maggie Glezer's "A Blessing of Bread" and found, on page 178 the recipe for "Pan de Calabaza", a sephardic pumpkin bread. Looked good so I decided to make that. After thinking for a while what shape I would make it (3-braid, 4-braid, loaf etc.) I decided to try something different.

Double Pumpkin BreadDouble Pumpkin Bread

I call it "Double" pumpkin bread because it contains pumpkin, and looks like one.

Recipe (as computed from the original using my spreadsheet:

  • Bread Flour: 100%, 3 1/8 C, 506 g
  • Water: 28%, 5/8 C, 142 g
  • Salt: 1.6%, 1 3.4 t, 8.1 g
  • Instant Dry Yeast: 1.17%, 1 3/4 t, 5.9 g
  • Pumpkin Puree: 23%, 6 1/2 T. 110 g
  • Cardamom, ground: 0.19%, 1/2 t, 912 mg
  • Ginger, ground: 0.18%, 1/2 t, 859 mg
  • Sugar, granulated: 14%, 5 1/4 T, 52.8 g
  • Vegetable Oil: 11%, 3 3/4 T, 47.4 g
  • Egg: 9.88%, 1 large, 47.4 g

This makes 2 pounds of a 44.45% hydration dough, although I found myself adding just a teeny bit of water. Makes a large loaf, two small to medium loaves, or 1 loaf and a few rolls.

  1. Mix ingredients until incorporated (if using mixer, use the paddle).
  2. Knead or use dough hook on mixer until good development. Dough will "just" clear the bowl, and should be smooth, silky and pass window pane test.
  3. Transfer to oiled container and let rise until almost tripled in size. You can do this in a fairly warm place as the flavor of the bread is determined by the ingredients, and not much by fermentation, so no need for slow fermentation.
  4. Degas gently and shape into a ball. Give it a 15 minute bench rest before proceeding.
  5. Shape as desired. Challah type braid is traditional but it is up to you (see above!)
  6. Let rise until, again at least doubled and the dough does not come back when you push a finger into it.
  7. Brush with glaze of one egg and a pinch of salt.
  8. Bake, in a preheated 350F oven for approximately 35 minutes. Internal temperature 197-202F. If it is getting to dark, tent with aluminum foil.

The taste was delicious, with the spices noticeable, but subtle. Fine textured crumb, soft crust and very moist inside. Worked well with pumpkin soup and everybody at our Halloween party loved it (and the three pizza's I made!) In case you are wondering: I kept the teeth light by covering them with an aluminum foil cutout after about 10 minutes of baking.



See my My Bread Adventures in pictures
Grandma x 12's picture
Grandma x 12

KitchenAid grinder and ordering/storing grains

Hi y'all,

For Christmas last year I received a KitchenAid grinder attachment, which I haven't used yet. I am a single person and have an older frig w/freezer on top. I understand that ground grain goes rancid quickly. I only want to purchase minimum amts. to grind because I can't put too many 5# sacks in the freezer.

I use old-fashioned oats, as is, for oatmeal breads. The local health food store carries a large line of Bob's Red Mill products in 24 ocs. pkgs. I have a pkg. of Bob's Red Mill steel-cut oats in the freezer, unused.

Another consideration is my limited counter space ('60's rental hse) is already taken up w/salvaged Tupperware cannisters w/sugars, AP flour, white whole wheat, etc. I froze rye for over six mos. as here in East Texas, it is too hot nine mos. of the year for stouter breads and turning on the oven LOL.

I suppose the routine would be to grind only enough for 1-2 makings?

I have the [i]King Arthur Flour Baking with Whole Grains[i] as my guide.

Is it worth the time and money w/shipping to order direct from a mill, and what do I ask for specifically?

sorry this is so long, and thanks for any input!


AnnieT's picture

Susan's sourdough

The loaf I baked today was the best yet, great crumb and a crisp crust that "sang" as it cooled. Plus it rose like crazy, and I'm not sure whether it was my yogurt starter or the fact that I now know that I haven't been letting the starter work its magic. I can't remember whether it was Bill or one of the other great mentors who said to let the starter do the work. I kept reading that soudough was slow but somehow it didn't sink in, so now I make sure to busy myself with something else so that I'm not rushing the dough. Slow learner? I cut the huge loaf as soon as I dared so that I could share it with neighbors who suffered through some of my earlier efforts. Then I ate some with soup for supper! A.

dolfs's picture

Thom Leonard's Country French

My first attempt failed, but this second one was much better.

Thom Leonard's Country FrenchThom Leonard's Country French

The first time I was baking six loaves (3 different recipes, 2 loaves each) on one day, and I wasn't quite with it (tired). I did not take care of the dough well enough, I suppose. It took way to long to ferment and rise, and as a result was over proofed. When I slashed it, it collapsed, and never quite recovered in the oven. It was still quite edible with some soup though! 


So, back to the drawing board. Second time around I made sure I had a good gluten window. This time around I also did a longer autolyse, and waited to add the salt until much later. I did three folds along the way during the bulk ferment. Finally, I made sure I shaped a good really tight boule. The effort paid off. I had a minor collapse during slashing, but probably more due to me trying to slash "assertively". It came back just fine in the oven!

Thom Leonard's Country French CrumbThom Leonard's Country French Crumb

The crumb was nice, and the crust incredible. The taste was very complex and very sweet. Only a hint of sour. I baked this as an almost 3 pound loaf, so I did use only about 55 minutes of baking time, rather than the 70 minutes suggested for the 4 pound version. Internal temperature was 210F. I did not have high-extraction flour. Last time I did an approximation by sifting coarse whole wheat flour, but the bread came out a lot darker than it should. This time I used a fine whole wheat mixed with regular bread flour (Giusto's Ultra Performance). To keep the color down I used 50% whole wheat and 50% white whole wheat (both KA). 



See my My Bread Adventures in pictures 

gatorgirl77's picture

What kind of bread am I making?

About 10 years ago, my grandmother shared some of her starter with me and I've been using that starter and her recipe ever since.  She told me it was sourdough, but the more I look into it, the more I realize that it isn't sourdough at all! 

I keep this starter in the refrigerator and feed it every 3-10 days.  It's liquid.  It smells more sweet than sour.  I feed it sugar, water and potato flakes, let it sit out for 12 hours then back to the refrigerator for at least 3 days before baking with it again.  To make bread, I take out 1 cup of liquid and add it to my flour mixture.  It takes 8-12 hours for the dough to rise, punch it down & form into loaves then it has to rise 8-12 more hours before baking.  The bread is soft, airy and a little sweet, not sour.  It's a wonderful bread, and I have been selling it, but I'm not sure that I should be calling it sourdough.

I haven't seen this type of starter anywhere in all my research. Can anyone give it a name?



DavidAplin's picture


Hi Bread Bakers, I have been 'sper-i-menting with Vollkornbrot forms from Hamelmans book. Some have turned out well, others not so well. The final proof seems to be key here. Paying attn to the final proof time is very important, if it rises a little too high...kerplunk! Also, the baking time in the book seems to be rather short, I have increased it to around 4 hours in total.

Happy Baking, David Aplin  Finished mix @ 20 degrees C
Vollkornbrot Final Dough: Finished mix @ 20 degrees C
 Water on table, dough is tres sticky
2 kg. and 1 kg. pieces: Water on table, dough is tres sticky
 Beginning of 1 1/2 hr. final proof
Vollkronbrot in tins: Beginning of 1 1/2 hr. final proof
 End of proof with cracks very visible, time to slam the heat
Vollkornbrot Proof: End of proof with cracks very visible, time to slam the heat
 After a lengthy bake; almost 4 hours.
Vollkornbrot baked: After a lengthy bake; almost 4 hours.
 Another view, quite pleased with myself, (FOR NOW)
Vollkronbrot Baked 2: Another view, quite pleased with myself, (FOR NOW)
pmcgrah608's picture

Question re: what to do with dehydrated starter update

Thanks to the inspiration of this forum, I created a wild sourdough starter on Sept 19.  It has created some wonderful breads, so I followed someone's idea to dry some starter by spreading it thinly on waxed paper and letting it dry.  Now I have fingernail sized flakes of dry starter.  Should I put it in a blender to make the flakes smaller?  Do I store this at room temperature or in the refrigerator, or freezer?  How can I re-activate the dried starter?  I still have some of my original starter.  This dehydrated starter is a backup, "just in case".

Thank you,



Oct 28 update:  I rehydrated some of my dehydrated starter, and fed it, and it sat there and did nothing. :-(

It was good and bubbly when I spread the starter out to begin drying.  My starter is fairly wet, (usually 1:1:1) , and it took almost 48 hours to dry.   Do you think the yeasts could have burned themselves out during the drying period?  Did I let it get too bubbly before drying?  Does anyone else have any experience with a dried starter?  This must be how people can package and mail a sourdough starter.

 This was an experiment, thankfully I still have some of my original mix!  :-)