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mikedilger's picture
mikedilger

Larraburu Brothers Method

I was six when the Larraburu Brothers Bakery shut down. I don't recall what the bread tasted like, and I'm not even sure I ever had any. But I'm fascinated by the history and how widespread and adored this bread was. The number of loaves, the loaves shipping around the world, even to France, indicates that it wasn't just a small group of aficionados that were keen on this bread.

I grew up on Colombo rolls and sliced bread, Oroweat rye, and 'artificial' sourdough baguettes from Safeway.  And I always had a Boudin bread bowl with clam chowder whenever I visited San Francisco.

Living in rural New Zealand, it's very hard to find San Francisco style sourdough bread. A local baker looks at me quizzically when I ask for sourdough bread that is intentionally sour. He tries to explain how people misunderstand, and that sourdough doesn't mean the bread tastes sour. I then have to counter-explain that I know this, and that bakeries in San Francisco did intentionally ramp up the sour because some people like that taste.

Like many on this board I'm still searching for my perfect bread to make every weekend. I'm pretty sure it won't be a Larraburu clone, but I think I will borrow some aspects of that bread. Understanding it is still a worthwhile endeavour.

Anyhow, this post is about my research into Larraburu Brothers bread, and my attempts at making it.

In comparing the NYT article ['NYT'] to the Galal et all paper ['Galal'], I notice some differences, but also a lot of confirmation.  Here is the superset of data from those two sources, including my take on why they conflict and how to resolve the conflicts.

GALAL: Each day a piece of straight dough or starter sponge known as the "Mother" is saved and refrigerated to be used as a starter sponge the following day.

NOTE: we don't know the refrigeration temperature, but we know that regular refrigeration is part of this starter's life.

NYT: A baker will take about two pounds of dough for a previous day's batch, and this is the starter for the next day's run.  The starter is left to rest for a few hours and is then placed in a dough mixer with salt, flour, and water. When this is blended, a sponge, as it is called in breadmaking circles, is produced. The sponge in this case weighs about 600 pounds. It is then divided into a dozen 50-pound pieces.

NOTE: At 50% hydration (from Galal) this is a 1/100/200 feeding, which is quite substantial.

GALAL: The starter sponge consists of 100 parts of clear flour (14% protein), approximately 50 parts of water, and 50 parts of the starter sponge

NOTE: This is a 1/1/2 feeding, 100-fold different from the NYT article. Personally I trust researchers to get facts more correct than I do newspaper reporters who are notoriously error prone. However, the bakery did have to make a hell of a lot of bread, and the reporter specified "two pounds", "600 pounds" divided into a "dozen" "50-pound" pieces, which is all self-consistent.  One way to resolve this difference is if the Galal paper had a single misprint. If it instead read "and 0.50 parts of the starter sponge" it would be exactly in line with the NYT article. Nonetheless, that is a very heavy dilution of starter material, and so I am still somewhat skeptical.

NOTE: The other inconsistency is that the NYT article suggests that the sponge contains salt. The Galal paper doesn't include salt in the sponge.

GALAL: The ingredients are mixed and fermented for 9-10 hr at 80F

NYT: Each of these pieces is put back into the mixer and more flour, salt and water is added. Each of these produces about 800 pounds of dough.

GALAL: The bread dough is made by mixing 100 parts of flour (12% protein), 60 parts of water, 15 parts of sponge, and 1.5-2% salt.

NOTE: Based on NYT, the sponge is 0.0625% of the final dough weight. Based on Galal, the sponge is 0.0849% of the final dough weight. These values aren't too far off each other. My best guess is that the bakery in 1976 was operating on a slightly different recipe than back in 1964.  And I suppose the value from 1976 by Galal is probably more reliable and/or represents improvements that the bakery made over those 12 years.

GALAL: The dough rests 1 hour, and then is divided, molded, and deposited on canvas dusted with corn meal or rice flour.

NYT: This dough is allowed to rest for an hour and is then molded, weighted and shaped.

NOTE: nice to see some consistency here between the two accounts.

GALAL: The dough is proofed for 4 hr at 105 F (41 C) and 96% relative humidity...

NYT: The resulting loaves are "proofed" in a dry steam box for four hours

NOTE: Again, nice to see some consistency here between the two accounts.

NYT: When they are removed, they are left to stand for another two to three hours.

GALAL: ...and baked at 420F (216 C) for 40-50 minutes in a Perkins oven with direct injection of low pressure steam (5 psi).

NYT: Finally they are baked 40 minutes.

NOTE: Again, complete consistency

 

So these accounts are rather consistent, and they fill in the gaps in the other's story. The biggest inconsistency is the amount of mother added to the sponge. Is it 1/1/2 or 1/100/200? I should think if it was 1/100/200, 9-10 hours at 80F would not be long enough to visually activate the sponge. So the bakers must have been working blind.  It does, however, allow for a long (4 hour) hot (41C) bulk ferment.

This weekend made a bread with mostly white flour, a smallish 10% sponge, and 5 hours fermenting at 39C (the hottest my incubator runs at). It worked out just fine - it may have overproofed slightly, but it still had some air and oven spring and a nice enough crumb for my tastes.

RotiPav's picture
RotiPav

Bouabsa Experiment - Take 1

 

Hi Folks,

I attempted the Bouabsa high hydration dough shaped as ficelle. Here are notes on my experiment. Would appreciate some critique and guidance. Thanks to Alfanso and dmsnyder for detailed instructions and video. I especially need some help to resize the dough amount and proportions for my small steam convection oven (24in Gaggenau) and small baking stone (12" x 10"). I am planning to do take 2 this weekend and would appreciate any tips.

  1. I only had KA AP flour and KA bread flour. I used mostly AP flour but ran short and added about 1/4 cup of bread flour. All by weight. My kitchen was quite cold and took longer to rise. 
  2. Day 1 - My dough did not look like a shaggy mass and was definitely tighter. I ended up adding a couple more tbsp of water in the second hydration to make it shaggier. Even then the dough was not stretchy Like the gorgeous french folds in Alfanso’s video. 
  3. On day 2, my dough needed about an hour to get to room temperature. Here is where I started running into some trouble. As I have a small steam oven, I wanted to make smaller ficelle - small enough for a sandwich for 1 person, after googling, I decided on 2 sizes - 100gms for small and 130 gms for slightly longer baguettes. I looked at Breadhitz videos to see how he shaped the smaller sizes. Well, my dough was a lot looser and not as shapeable. In fact, it didn’t seem to have as much gas. I figured it was my cold California kitchen and let the dough rest for a bit longer to get the yeast going. 
  4. Equipment - I had some makeshift equipment. The whole transfer to oven thing threw me off as I did not have a transfer peel. I used a plastic clipboard that was long enough for my baking stone. My baking stone was an Emile Henry enameled baking stone that is quite small - 12in X 10in. Moreover, it had a raised handle and this made the oven transfer complicated. First, I decided to use parchment and the backside of a quarter sheet pan to transfer to the oven. The first attempt was a disaster as the bread just fell off the edge and I had to somehow rescue it. This ended up in the 2 misshapen specimens. For the next 2 batches, I used a cutting board with a handle.  I also made a mistake in using a glass Pyrex for the lava stones container. The boiling hot water hit it and it immediately cracked. I should have used a cast iron gratin dish or something that was sturdier.  Given that I have a steam function in the oven, maybe I could avoid the kettle of hot water and just do the dish towel in water for extra steam and the rocks for added thermal mass. But if a burst of steam is needed for the initial hit, then I need the water on rocks. 
  5. Overall I needed to bake 3 batches and I feel that the skin got a little dry in the later batch. The second batch had a shiny crust but the third batch and the first batch look dull. Incidentally, the second batch was the one where the glass dish cracked, so maybe the burst of steam helped. I also feel that the underside is not dark enough. The scoring with the lame could be deeper maybe? The bread is not as holey as I would like and the crumb is dense - so maybe I needed to let it rise more or do different proportions or different flour? As I needed 3 batches, maybe I should bake a half batch or pop the dough back in the refrigerator and shape the second half later. Or maybe I should do 2 small baguettes and the rest as a batard or a boule? 

Small Ficelle - Bouabsa double hydration

Underside

Small baking stone

 

 

 

 

russell's picture
russell

Even height on a pan loaf

Hi,

Just hoping for tips on how to achieve a pan loaf that doesn't have tiny slices at the ends and skyscraper ones in the middle, as pictured. Approx twice as high in the middle as the ends. This is slashed. If I don't slash, they tear to similar effect. If I slash on angles, the unslashed bits look like rubber bands squeezing the bread in. Since the bloom looks like flesh bursting out of a tight zipper opening at each end of the slash, I have tried adding slashes across the loaf at each end but that didn't help. This is with a pyrex dish over it for steaming for 30 minutes (40 mins total baking time). If anything it's worse than my usual 20 mins out of 40. I'm worried if I go the other way (no steaming) I will get a brick loaf. I do pre-shape and shape trying to get a tight skin, habit from free-form loaves (I usually do a boule and a pan loaf each batch). Maybe I should just bench rest and toss the dough in the pan?

Method if it matters, pretty close to Tartine country loaf. Approx 20-30% rise after bulk. Refrigerator proof, in the pan (covered) for 8-16 hours: 11 hours in this case. The bread itself is delicious (maybe a little gummy) and the crumb is good. 

Patti Y's picture
Patti Y

Rye starter questions

How do I know if I have the correct beasties in my rye starter? I couldn't keep the temp at 74°F. It varied from 70-88°F with the oven light on.

It has never been refrigerated, is 100% hydration, and was fed dark rye flour once per day. 

I had used the NMNF recipe at 62% hydration, but after 2 weeks of feeding, it was doing nothing so I switched it to 100% hydration. 

Now it has been 4 weeks, and I think I might be ready to switch it  back to a stiff starter. Then it will be a NMNF starter in the refrigerator. 

Do I have the right beasties? 

How do I know if it is strong enough to turn into a NMNF refrigerated starter? At 100% hydration, it doubles within 2-3 hours.

What is my next step? Thanks!

cyber's picture
cyber

Sponge or autolyse that is the question

I usually make a sponge (correct me if I'm wrong) i.e. I mix my starter with warm water and a bit of flour and let it raise and bubble for 2 hours. Then I add the rest of the flour and water + salt, mix and raise 1h then S&F then raise then S&F and so on.

I read online that some people rather autolyse (correct me if I'm wrong) i.e. mix flour and water and let it rest before adding the starter and the salt.

Obviously the two methods are exclusive of one another.

Which one would you recommend, please?

 

Cristina's picture
Cristina

Students baking sourdough - please help a teacher out!

Hello! I am starting a project with my IB biology class (advanced biology, 11th grade) where I will have them create their own sourdough starters and then bake sourdough bread with it. I am new to sourdough baking but I have been doing some experimenting over the last few months to prep for this project. I received a donation from King Arthur Flour for so I have been using their recipes and resources. 

I would love to have the students bake naturally leavened sourdough bread (no commercial yeast), but I'm not sure how this can be done on a school schedule.  I would also like to have the students do as many of the steps (building levain, mixing dough, folding, shaping, baking, etc.) as possible.  But if its not possible, I can do some of the steps for them.  Here is the schedule that we're working with. 

The students are with me everyday at 12pm. We are on an alternating schedule were I have them for 40 min one day and 80 min the next day. I am at school from 7:30 - 4pm, but can stay later if necessary. 

In my limited sourdough experience, it seems like even with the most relaxed sourdough schedule, you still have to do something to it at least every 12 hours.  However, these students will only be with me every 24 hours. My contact at KA Flour says that using a recipe that calls from some commercial yeast may be the way to go in this situation (sad face).

So my questions:

Can anyone suggest a schedule for naturally leavened bread that would work? 

What type of recipe do you suggest (e.g., white, whole wheat, etc.)?

Should I give up on trying to do a naturally leavened bread and use commercial yeast?  If so, what schedule is suggested for this?

Finally, my other obstacle is that we have two ovens for 5 groups of students.  That will be 10 loaves of bread.  I'm thinking putting them in loaf pans and baking in 2 batches will be the best way to get them all to fit?  Any suggestions here?

Thank you for any and all help!

Cristina

 

Valdus's picture
Valdus

Point me to a Sourdough Rye?

I have the craving for that rye tang. Could someone point me to a good sourdough recipe? Preferably not using prepackaged yeast?

Skibum's picture
Skibum

NY Deli Rye, (once again) baked Forkish style

Greeting fellow bakers and happy Canada Day to our Canadian friends and happy Presidents Day to my American friends!

Sorry for the repetition, but this P. Reinhart recipe has become my favourite sandwich loaf. I use a whole light rye starter and it is delicious sandwich bread!

I have baked this recipe in a loaf pan, free standing in the oven with the pizza stone but this time decided to try baking in a hot cast iron Dutch oven, 20 minutes covered and 20 minutes uncovered.

Now Forkish style invlolves proofing in the banneton seam side down and baking seam side up. On this bake, the way the seams broke down, the finished loaf had less loft the the final proofed dough. So when I next bake this bread, I will proof seam side up and bake seam side down. I hope this change in method will give the dough more volume.

Happy baking! Ski

Martin Crossley's picture
Martin Crossley

Spying on your starter...

Just sharing a tip...

If you've got an old iPhone or tablet lying around, it really is dead easy to use it to take a time-lapse video of your starter's response to feeding or the inflation of your dough :)

I can't speak for other devices, but on the Apple ones you just bring up the camera, swipe left at the bottom to get to 'time-lapse', hit the record button and that's it. There's no need to adjust any settings, it just automatically reduces the frame rate depending on how long you leave it running (ten mins, a couple of hours, overnight or whatever). Obviously you probably need to leave it plugged in to the charger or the battery will go flat.

Personally I put an old wristwatch next to the container so I can see how much time's gone by at any point in the video.

An interesting thing to do is to get a few clear containers (e.g. shot glasses) and put them in a row. Put some discard in a bowl, feed it 1:1:1 and put a dollop in the first glass. Then 'feed' what's left in the bowl again (so you now have 1:2:2) and put a dollop in the next glass... etc. Set the camera up so it can see the whole row, go to bed - and then in the morning watch the video to see how long your starter takes to 'peak' for different feeding regimes. That's quite useful knowledge, if you want to adjust your timings.

Equally you could adjust the hydration level of the starter between the different glasses, or make a row of scraps of dough with different amounts of salt, percentages of wholewheat vs. plain ... ... ...

One final note though - friends and family seem (for some curious reason) to be not so interested in my home videos of overnight starter growth. No accounting for taste, eh? 

 

startercook's picture
startercook

the perfect muffin!

Hi,

This is my very first post.

I am trying to make the perfect chocolate muffin - light & fluffy with an attractive dome.

So i am trying to going to a period of trial & error to find the optimal ingredients and wondered whether TFL community could assist.  In short the ingredients are as follows;

100g plain flour, cocoa powder, egg, 50ml oil, 50g caster sugar, 100ml milk, 1/2 tsp baking powder, pinch cinammon and choc chips. Gas mark 200deg for 20mins.

Can someone advise whether they would change any of the above to achieve the perfect muffin. For instance, i have increased to 1 tsp baking powder.  But recently tried bicarbonate soda instead which made the muffins look good.

But what switching to self-raising flour, or leaving the mixture to rest before placing in the oven?

Thanks, Jay

 

 

 

 

 

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