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Sid's picture
Sid

Dough hydration

Hi everyone,

I have a question about dough hydration. Or rather an observation, which I'm hoping others have experienced as well, and can shed some light on.

When I make dough using just regular dry yeast and keep the hydration to say 65% with the flour that I'm using, I have a dough consistency that I can knead. It starts out a bit wet and sticky, but then the gluten starts to kick in and I can work the dough on my countertop. However, if I use my sourdough levain (50% whole wheat, 50% water), and adjust everything to the SAME hydration level of 65% (compensating for the flour and water in my levain), my dough becomes too wet to knead (feels like about 75% hydration). Yes, I know it's sourdough, so I then resort to the stretch and fold method to work the dough and get it ready for pre-shaping and shaping, but I was curious as to why this is happening.

A couple of points here. With dry yeast I just use bread flour, which has about 12-13% protein. For sourdough, I end up with about 1/6 whole wheat from the levain (120 g levain added to 300 g flour and 174 g water), so there is a bit of an overall drop in gluten content. There should still be plenty of gluten to hold the dough together, which it does (during the stretch and fold, I can pull the whole of the dough off the bowl and it will hold together). I usually do about 5-6 stretches and folds about 30 minutes apart, then let the dough rise in the bowl until doubled (about 3-5 hours). Then I turn it out onto my countertop for pre-shaping (after which I let it rest for 10-15 minutes) before final shaping and putting it in a proving bowl. This pre-shaping and shaping gets very difficult with the wetness and stickiness of the dough. This does not happen when I use dry yeast. I then let it prove for another 3 hours or so at room temperature before retarding it in the fridge overnight.

Could someone tell me why this apparent increase in hydration is happening? Why is my sourdough starter making the dough wetter and runnier? Is there any way to control for this? I autolyse my dough for at least an hour, often longer, before I add the levain and salt. My levain is on the rise when I add it and is at least doubled from when I inoculated it from my starter.

Thanks in advance for your help and suggestions.

not.a.crumb.left's picture
not.a.crumb.left

Protecting Gluten with weak flour link

I just came across this and thought that it is a nice summary of how to protect gluten, if you 

work with weaker flour. Most of you probably know this all but I wished when I started baking that 

I would have known...so hopefully someone  might find it helpful...For me ...knowing your flour is the best start and I did learn that the hard way...Ha. ha...... Kat

https://thebakingnetwork.com/protecting-gluten-in-a-weak-dough/

Isand66's picture
Isand66

Purple Corn Spelt Bread with Ricotta & Rice

I've been wanting to try milling some dried corn into flour for some time and finally found some on Amazon a little while ago.  For this bake I used around 17% fresh corn flour so it didn't really add much purple color as I had hoped, but it smelled amazing after milling and did add a nice subtle corn flavor to the bake.

I had some leftover rice so I added some into the mix along with some ricotta cheese to make a nice soft and flavorful dough.  This one smelled like you could eat it before even baking it!

Above you can see the milled four with its slight purple tinge.

Here are the Zip files for the above BreadStorm files.

The bread came out great. The crumb was nice and open and moist and tasted fantastic.  This one is a keeper for sure and worth trying.  The nutty flavor of the spelt was really complimented with the corn flour and made for one tasty bread.

Levain Directions

Mix all the levain ingredients together  for about 1 minute and cover with plastic wrap.  Let it sit at room temperature for around 7-8 hours or until the starter has doubled.  I used my proofer set at 83 degrees and it took about 4 hours.   You can use it immediately in the final dough or let it sit in your refrigerator overnight.

 Main Dough Procedure

Mix the flours  and the water for about 1 minute.  Let the rough dough sit for about 20 minutes to an hour.  Next add the levain, Ricotta Cheese, olive oil, rice and salt and mix on low for 4 minutes.  You should end up with a cohesive dough that is slightly tacky but very manageable.  Remove the dough from your bowl and place it in a lightly oiled bowl or work surface and do several stretch and folds.  Let it rest covered for 10-15 minutes and then do another stretch and fold.  Let it rest another 10-15 minutes and do one additional stretch and fold.  After a total of 2 hours place your covered bowl in the refrigerator and let it rest for 12 to 24 hours.  (Since I used my proofer I only let the dough sit out for 1.5 hours before refrigerating).

When you are ready to bake remove the bowl from the refrigerator and let it set out at room temperature still covered for 1.5 to 2 hours.  Remove the dough and shape as desired.

The dough will take 1.5 to 2 hours depending on your room temperature and will only rise about 1/3 it's size at most.  Let the dough dictate when it is read to bake not the clock.

Around 45 minutes before ready to bake, pre-heat your oven to 540 degrees F. and prepare it for steam.  I have a heavy-duty baking pan on the bottom rack of my oven with 1 baking stone on above the pan and one on the top shelf.  I pour 1 cup of boiling water in the pan right after I place the dough in the oven.

Right before you are ready to put them in the oven, score as desired and then add 1 cup of boiling water to your steam pan or follow your own steam procedure.

Lower the temperature to 450 degrees.  Bake for 35-50 minutes until the crust is nice and brown and the internal temperature of the bread is 205 degrees.

Take the bread out of the oven when done and let it cool on a bakers rack before for at least 2 hours before eating.

 

Suitup87's picture
Suitup87

Liquid levain culture question

Hi guys and gals!

First time messing with a sourdough starter but I've done other easy preferments, not a total newbie here.

I have the Hamelman book a dear friend left in my care and I've begun his liquid levain culture. His instructions are confusing though for the day two through five feeding schedule.

I get that I will only need half of what I made today and can discard half of it. Am I supposed to discard half again the second time I feed tomorrow? That can't be right? If I am allowed to post pictures of this I will. If anyone has the book it is pages 358-359.

 I did 4.8oz whole rye, 6oz water, 1 tsp honey for day one. 330p today. His instructions for day two say feed twice 12 hours apart and then there is a table of ingredients. The first item is initial mix - half of it, trash the rest. The rest is 1.2oz whole rye, 1.2oz bread flour, 3oz water. I assume I simply do that feed twice with half the day one mix but Hamelman is unclear here.

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

New Starter - Pineapple Solution - What is Happening?

Looking for experienced input and observation.

I am in the process of starting a new starter from scratch according to Debra’s instructions. 

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/10856/pineapple-juice-solution-part-1

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/10901/pineapple-juice-solution-part-2

The nitty gritty...

http://forums.finecooking.com/print/node/63318?page=2&comment=737624

The starter uses home milled organic rye and fresh squeezed pineapple juice. The image above shows tremendous growth 3 hours past the second (24hr) feed. I have never experienced the foul smelling bad bacteria (Leuconostoc species) phase that I read about. And I am fairly sure this is not the case with this starter. It seems fine.

The image was taken after only 27 hours of total fermentation (since inception) at an ambient temp of 77F. All liquids are pineapple juice. What is going on?

Danny

Update - Immediately after photographing the top image the stirred was stirred down (it feel to the top line). The image below was taken 1 1/2 hr later. Ambient temp is 77F. Starter smells fine.

Not bad for a 30 hr old starter. It ain’t pretty and the taste leaves much to be desired, but it is bread...

 

Lemonie's picture
Lemonie

Rye sandwich loaf and sugar

I am diabetic but am looking to eat more carbs.  I bake for hubs but was looking for a lower GI bread and have been looking at rye flour.  All the recipes I had seen seem to have a lot of added sugar.  Is this for a reason or just a flavouring as it sort of negates the lower carb/GI thing.  I am looking for a bread that is worth the carbs in nutritional value if that makes sense.

Jmcousino's picture
Jmcousino

Converting Sourdough Starter Recipes To Yeast

I just recently purchased the book Artisan Sourdough Made Simple: A Beginner's Guide to Delicious Handcrafted Bread with Minimal Kneading. In preparing a loaf I have come to realize that I’m not as fond of the sourdough tang / taste. However I did like the texture, softness and artisan look of the sourdough boules. 

So my question is how can I adapt these recipes omitting the starter and using active or instant dry yeast?  Each recipe calls for 50 g 100% active starter. Would the correct approach be to remove 25 g flour and 25 g water from the main recipe?  And then add the necessary yeast?

Appreciate any advice you can offer. 

cskorton's picture
cskorton

Poolish vs. Biga vs. Sponge for Enriched Doughs

Hi All, 

Im working on a recipe very similar to this one:

https://blog.kingarthurflour.com/2016/12/29/naturally-leavened-brioche-style-kugelhopf/

Its an Italian version of a Savarin/Gugelhupf/Baba. I’m not skilled enough to use a sourdough yet, but my question to you all is what would be the structural/textural differences in using a poolish vs. a biga vs. a sponge, if any, in an enriched dough? It seems to me that differences in taste are negligible, especially if I’m going to be adding fats and sugar.  

Thanks!

 

Cedarmountain's picture
Cedarmountain

A Genesis Style Sourdough Bread

 

When I began making bread a few years ago it was with a determination to bake nutritious and wholesome bread. What I did not fully understand or appreciate is the broad scope and variety, the many variables affecting the process, the simple and complex beauty of a well baked loaf of bread. And when I think of the countless varations of bread baked over thousands of years it is humbling to realize that each loaf I bake has very likely been baked before by someone else at another time. This was eloquently expressed in a blog comment by Andy (Syd-a) some years ago on TFL:

"I suppose the beauty in bread baking is often not the novelty but in the reproduction in as much a beautiful or faithful way to the old recipes and to add your own personal style to it.  I did nothing new with my baking today, but have made some ok bread...but nothing that hasn't been done by greater bakers previously." 

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/34207/bread-according-ezekiel-49#comment-262728 

So, for today's bake, I too did nothing new but have made some ok bread... nothing that hasn't been done by greater bakers previously!

Turns out my idea for today's multigrain, multiseed sourdough bread has been done before by a bakery called Food for Life; they bake Ezekial Bread  (versions of this previously baked/posted by others on TFL; I baked a loaf a few weeks ago to see what it was like; it was ok) and a multigrain Genesis Bread - my bread today is a similar combination of sprouted and fresh milled grains, much the same ingredients but a different approach, as Andy says,  "....reproduction in as much a beautiful or faithful way to the old recipes and to add your own personal style to it"

I mixed and autolysed fresh milled, whole grain, organic rye, spelt, Marquis flour with organic white flour; then added sea salt and a young levain to start the bulk fermentation. After the first hour I added a porridge of cooked ground chia, millet, amaranth, quinoa, hemp, flax, sesame, cashews, almonds, basmati rice, steel cut oats, yellow corn, yellow peas, a soaker of coarse cracked pumpkin seeds, sunflower seeds, buckwheat and some mashed sprouted barley, oats, khorasan.  I estimate the FDH at 80%.  I cold proofed the loaves overnight and baked directly out of the fridge in pre-heated Creusets; covered 500 F for 25 minutes, 450 F for 10 minutes and uncovered 450 F for 20 minutes to finish.  I like this bread - it is on my short, short list at the top.

 

 

 

 

ValerieC's picture
ValerieC

Best method?

As a P-plate baker I am hoping that some experienced bakers can help me in my confusion. Which method is likely to produce the superior loaf? 

1. Low innoculation. O/N bulk ferment at 21C for 16 hrs  followed by 2 hour final ferment @ 27C

2. Bulk ferment with higher innoculation (300g : 1000g flour @ 27C 4 - 6 hrs followed by O/N 12 hr retard in fridge.

I have been using the first method as it seems to fit into my schedule better but I have been wondering if the second method would produce a more open crumb.

My bread tastes delicious and toasts magnificently after freezing. It is also quite tangy. Many  thanks in anticipation.

 Valerie

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