The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

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Pat_'s picture

Bee Sting ( sort of ) recipe wanted


my local continental bakery ( barbakan in chorlton uk) does a lovely cake he calls a  beesting but its not like any beesting I have seen before and he wont share his recipe - ( understandably)

I fancy having a go and wondered if any one recognised it and had a recipe

The cake is in 3 parts

1) a firm Genoese type sponge - soaked in a sort of almond syrup

2) then it has a thin layer of caramel with flaked almonds on top ( slightly chewy)

3) this is then cut into 2 1/2" squares and dipped in milk chocolate( up to but not over the caramel topping)

 Any one recognise this cake and / or could share me a recipe



breadbakingbassplayer's picture

4/15/10 - 70% Rye with Caraway Seeds

Hey All,

Just wanted to share with you my bake from 4/15/10.  70% rye with caraway seeds.  I'll post my recipe shortly.  Enjoy.


Total Recipe
2310g Organic Rye Flour (70%)
990g Bread Flour (30%)
2574g Water (78%)
60g Kosher Salt (1.8%)
20g Active Dry Yeast (0.6%)
52g Caraway Seeds (1.6%)
6000g Total Dough (approx)

Rye Sour
1155g Organic Rye Flour
924g Water
10g Kosher Salt
4g Firm Sourdough Starter
2089g Total

Final Dough
1155g Organic Rye Flour
990g Bread Flour
1650g Water
50g Kosher Salt
52g Caraway Seeds
20g Active Dry Yeast (6 1/2 tsp)
2089g Rye Sour
6006g Total

Evening before baking
8:22pm - Mix rye sour, cover and let rest on counter at room temp for 23 hrs.

Bake Evening
7:55pm - Mix final dough ingredients with wooden spoon for about 10 minute or until well combined.  Cover and bulk ferment.
8:45pm - Divide in to 8 equal pieces (750g each), shape into boules, place in floured linen lined bannettons, cover and let proof for 1 hr.  Place baking stones on 2 levels along with steam pan in oven.  Preheat to 550F with convection.
9:45pm - Load oven (4 per stone), add 1 cup of water to steam tray, close door.  Bake for 10 minutes at 480F, bake for another 50 minutes at 410F. Shift loaves between stones halfway through bake.  Turn off oven, leave loaves in for another 5 minutes.  Loaves are done when internal temp reaches 210F. Cool 12-24 hrs before cutting.

inlovewbread's picture

Things are looking up!- Sourdoughs

My last few bakes haven't been so successful. Formulae that usually turned out well were coming out of the oven looking sad. I can't figure out if I was over or under-proofing. I kept trying at it to get the timing right on Glezer's Colombia. Incidentally I posted about it on my blog because it's the family's favorite bread, but lately the scoring just doesn't open up. The flavor is great, but I can't get it to look the way I want it to anymore! Ugh! Then I made a few other breads that just turned out so-so. How is it that my bread could be getting worse?

But alas, a little baking redemption:

Today's bake was dmsnyder's San Joaquin Sourdough (finally tried it) and my favorite Pain au Levain with whole wheat. 

The San Joaquin Sourdough- or "Idaho Sourdough" as I guess it should be called:

I took a risk and did not stick to the 21 hour cold bulk ferment as specified in dmsnyder's formula. I pulled out the dough for final proofing at about 14 hours. It looks like it woke up fine! The grigne looks a little jagged, I confidently scored these batards but I may not have gone deep enough. It turned out a pretty interesting look though.

The crumb:

Outstanding flavor, a little more sour than I have been getting- which is good!

The Pain au Levains:

It's good to see a grigne...

the crumb:

I really don't like doing math- so here is the *formula* for the Pain au Levain with whole wheat, and a little rye:

75% white flour (I used like 75% ap and 25% bread flour)

15% white whole wheat flour (WM Prairie Gold, freshly ground)

10% rye flour (whole rye)

40% of the flour was prefermented 

2% salt (I used french grey salt, and I think it really makes a difference)

roughly 70% hydration


LindyD's picture

And the winner of Best Baguette in Paris 2010 is:

Djibril Bodian of Le Grenier à Pain Abbesses

With thanks to Farine, who is always up on the latest in the world of bread.

Edit:  One of the judges posted a blog on the competition.  Gosselin took fifth.  Here's the link to her comments

varda's picture

Patriots Day Baguettes

Recently I have been experimenting with making sourdough multigrain breads.   My first attempt had 50% bread flour, 25% spelt, and 25% rye.   Suffice it to say, I hope our friendly neighborhood coyote didn't break a tooth on it.   Yesterday, I went down to 6% spelt, 6% rye.   This wasn't bad.   Today, I went down even further and made baguettes with 3% rye, 3% spelt.   This was downright tasty.   Here they are with a flag in honor of Patriot's Day.

and with the remnants of the 12%er. 

470 g Bread Flour, 17 g Rye, 15 g Spelt, 250 g white starter around 75% hydration,  312 g water, 1 T salt. 

Start feeding active white wild yeast starter afternoon before, with at least two feedings, maintaining 75% hydration.   Leave on counter overnight.   Mix all ingredients but salt and autolyse for 30 minutes.  Mix in salt.   During bulk ferment, stretch and fold every 45 minutes  twice.   Leave for 45 more minutes.  Cut in three pieces (could have done two, these were short) preshape and let rest for 15 minutes.   Shape.   Final ferment until done (I really don't know the right amount but I did 40 minutes.)   Bake at 475 for 23 minutes.


txfarmer's picture

Silverton's sourdough bagel and Hamelman's Bialy

The bagel recipe is from Nancy's Siliverton's book "Breads from the La Brea Bakery". The procedure is very similar to the one in BBA, cold rise, boil, bake, except that it uses some starter in addition to commercial yeast. I like the end product a lot, as happy as I was with the BBA ones, I find these ones are more chewy, the crumb is tighter, more like a true NY bagel. I used various toppings, my favorite one was Asiago Cheese, yum!

I used my 100% starter, and adjust water content accordingly. Also used some baking soda in the boiling water to get that shine. The following is my modified version:

water (70F), 14.5oz

instant yeast, 1.75tsp

white starter (100%), 11oz

high-gluten flour (I used Sir Lancelot), 2lbs

sugar, 2oz

salt, 1tbsp

barley malt syrup, 2tbsp

milk powder, 6tbsp

1. Mix everything until gluten is well developed

2. Rest for 10 minutes

3. divide into 4oz pieces, round and relax for 15 minutes

4. shape into bagels - I use the "connect two ends of a rope method", but some prefer the "punch and stretch a hole in the center" method. Keep the hole in the center fairly big.

5. refriderate for 12 to 24 hours.

6. take out and take one to test whether it floats in water, if so, they are fully risen and ready to be boiled, otherwise, they need more time on the counter to rise, check every 20 minutes.

7. boil in water and baking soda, 20 sec each side

8. take out and add on toppings

9. bake at 400F for 20minutes (but oven is preheated to 450F then turned down when breads are loaded).

Liking the bagels, I wanted to make some bialys as well. Used Hamelman's formula even though I see Glezer has one that's straight from Kossar, Hamelman's has lower water content, and bialy is supposed to be chewy, so I chose his instead.

Nice and chewy out of oven, full of onion aroma. The problem is that there's no salt in the onion topping, so while it smelled wonderfully onion-y, but the taste is ... not salty enough. I added a pinch of salt in the onion mixture for the 2nd batch, much better. I checked Glezer's formula, the onion topping is also saltless. I've only tasted Kossar bialy once before, I remmeber it had some salty taste, did I remember wrong? Salt or no salt, these are some yummy little rolls.

Since they are the best fresh, still warm from oven, I think it's really worthwhile to make them at home. Plus they are quite easy to make! I am not posting the recipe since it's straight from the book with no modifications. My order of dried onion is on its way, plan to make some Norm's onion rolls to compare to these.

Royall Clark's picture
Royall Clark

Cost only spreadsheet

Hi all,


I did a search of the archives but didn't find what I was looking for. I would like a spreadsheet to calculate the cost of ingredients going into my bread. More and more people are asking me to bake an "extra loaf" for them when I bake. I just don't know what to charge them. Here in the islands ingredients can get spendy and would like quick way to know what the cost for the ingredients are for a given loaf.

I tried to make my own Excel sheet but have forgotten too much of Excel to do it. If you have a simple program to sell or share, or know where I can get something like this, I'd greatly appreciate it!




copyu's picture

Ancient baguette discussion

Hi all,

I was searching the 'net for possible tips on re-creating Boulangier Paul's "flute ancienne" and came across this rather old, but interesting, bulletin-board/blog/discussion. There are some really good posts, there.

Someone asked the question: "Why are French baguettes better than others?" There were some interesting answers. This may be useful to bakers around this neighbourhood. No questions from me, for a change...just posted FYI...




tananaBrian's picture

Update on The Bread Challenge

The Bread Challenge is getting off to a good start!  As of today, we now have 18 bakers signed on, 12 of which are maintaining blogs about their journey.  Plus, I have now put together a blog that aggregates everybody's blogs into one page so you can, at a glance, see the latest happenings with people's individual baking efforts.  You can find The Bread Challenge blog here.

If you are interested in what we are doing, click the Bread Challenge link above and check things out.  We're baking our way through Bread: A Baker's Book of Techniques and Recipes by Jeffrey Hamelman...

Thanks, and I hope to welcome you to the team soon.



jayfoxpox's picture

Lot's of sour dough questions

Hello everyone,

This is my first post in a long time. I attempted to make sour dough  loafs last year but it always gave a really sharp acidic taste that I really disliked. I decided to give it another shot . 

So I'm attempting to make some basic whole wheat loaves.

1) What is the minmium temperature the sourdough ferment at? Last time I placed the dough into a 4C fridge  for 24 hours it was just a dense blob .

2)I'm going for a 50% whole wheat levain ( 68% hydration) approximatively how long  of a bulk fermentation and proof  am I expecting? ( 68% hydration )

3) If I were to decrease the levain to 50% to 25% about how many hours am I expecting it to extend the bulk fermentation(@ room temp)?

4) If memory serves me correct a firm starter is best used when tripled in size ?


I'm thinking of having an ice water bath in an ice cooler ( dough in a glass bowl floating on water with a handful of icecubes )so during the bulk fermentation It will the temperature will start from around  4 C then slowly rise to room temperature hopefully by the time it is fully fermented , anyone tried this?  Hope this works well.

I plan to do the same thing for the final proofing. Hopefully I can get this right so bulk fermentation is 24 hours while final proof works out to about 12 hours.

I'm trying to separate the steps as far as possible so I can hopefully have 1 day for mixing and kneading and bulk fermentation, 2nd day shape and final proof, 3rd day in the morning : toss it straight in the oven . all while keeping minimum time a day working on the dough.


Thanks in advance,