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Shiao-Ping's picture
Shiao-Ping

Sourdough Black Tea Bread - using James MacGuire's Pain de Tradition procedure

      


       Sourdough Black Tea Bread - using James MacGuire's Pain de Tradition procedure


                                   


                                   the crumb


I always remember that very dense Black Tea Sourdough that I made a month ago (it feels like ages ago).  Back then I received a lot of kind remarks and encouragements but really the sourdough was like a stone.  So, I had on my list to try my hands again at some stage.   With the new technique I learned from making James MacGuire's Pain de Tradition, I thought my time was ripe for a second go at it.  Back then, my dough hydration was a shy 64% with a dough size of 685 g.  This time I jacked up the hydration to 80% (total flour 500 g and total liquid 400 g) for a dough size of 910g.   Not only that, I gave the dough an overnight cold retardation in the fridge.


My formula 


210 g wholemeal starter @ 75% hydration


290 g white bread flour


90 g KAF Sir Lancelot high gluten flour


125 g cool black tea (I used 2 English Breakfast tea bags)


151 g water


18 g honey


16 g Tea Liqueur


10 g salt  


2 g instant dry yeast


 


With only mother and son at home (my husband and daughter are away on the International Young Physicist Tournament in China) I was afraid that I would have a lot left over; but no, my son couldn't have enough of it, and he made me slice up the whole loaf. 


                   


                    more crumb


                                                                                            


                                                                                            and the close-up


Tonight my muse is the music from my late teens/early 20s; my whole house is ringing with the music, I think my roof is protesting.  My son walks out of his bedroom, dancing to the music.  He has a smile on his face as, when the daddy is away, the mummy lets him free-range. 


Oh, let me get back to the bread.


The bread is lovely.  It's too easy - with MacGuire's procedure.  The crumb is favourful and the mouthfeel is mildly chewy - totally unlike the cottony/fairy floss like crumb of yeasted breads.  There is "substance" to the crumb.  The addition of sourdough starter and the retardation overnight really do the trick for me. 


One complaint - I might have over-dosed the bread with the instant dry yeast!  Even though I used the prescribed quantity (ie, 2 g), I think less instant yeast so that the dough doesn't rise up too much might be good. 


Isn't that funny - a month ago I couldn't have enough aeration and holes in my sourdough, now I am begging for less!


Shiao-Ping 


 

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Miche, Pointe-à-Callière: Another James McGuire formula (from Hamelman's "Bread")

 


Even before the recent crop of beautiful breads made with James McGuire's “Pain de Tradition” formula, I had been planning to bake the “Miche, Point-à-Callière” from Hamelman's “Bread” this weekend. Hamelman attributes this bread to McGuire, whose intention was to replicate the type of bread baked by the first French settlers of what ultimately became Montreal. The name of the bread, “Pointe-à-Callière,” was the name of their first settlement.



Miche, Pointe-à-Callière


The other, more well-known, bread meant to approximate French bread of that era is Pain Poilâne. Hamelman's formula is for a 82% hydration Miche (very large boule) made with high-extraction flour. It is a pain au levain with no added yeast. The principal difference between McGuire's and Poilâne's miches is the higher hydration of McGuire's. Actually, I make this bread with 2 oz less water than Hamelman calls for, which makes it a 76% hydration dough.


I have made this bread with first clear flour, Golden Buffalo Flour (a high-extraction flour from Heartland Mills) and with a mix of bread flour and whole wheat. Personally, I prefer the results with first clear flour over the others.


 


Overall Formula

 

 

High-extraction whole-wheat flour

2 lbs

100.00%

Water

1 lb, 8.2 oz

76.00%

Salt

0.6 oz

1.80%

Total

3 lb, 8.8 oz

177.80%

 

Levain Build

 

 

High-extraction whole-wheat flour

6.4 oz

100.00%

Water

3.8 oz

60.00%

Mature culture (stiff)

1.3 oz (3 T)

20.00%

Total

11.5 oz

 

 

Final Dough

 

 

High-extraction whole-wheat flour

1 lb, 9.6 oz

 

Water

1 lb, 4.4 oz

 

Salt

0.6 oz

 

Levain

10.2 oz (all less 3 T)

Total

3 lb, 8.8 oz

 

 

Procedure

  1. Make the levain about 12 hours before you want to mix the dough. Dissolve the mature culture in the water, then mix in the flour. Cover tightly and ferment at room temperature. (I let the levain ripen at room temperature for about 10 hours overnight. I then refrigerated it for another 6 hours. This was a matter of my convenience. It probably did increase the sourness of the final dough, which happens to be fine with me.)

  2. To make the dough, mix the flour and water in a large bowl or the bowl of a stand mixer, if you have one that can handle this much dough. Cover and let stand for an autolyse of 20-60 minutes. At the end of the autolyse, sprinkle the salt over the dough, add the levain in chunks and mix thoroughly. Hamelman says to mix the dough at second speed for 2 to 2 ½ minutes to get a loose dough with only moderate gluten development. This time would be for a professional spiral mixer, of course. DDT is 76F. (I mixed the dough in a Bosch Universal Plus. It took about 4 ½ minutes to get what I regarded as “moderate gluten development.” I think one could easily use the “stretch and fold in the bowl” technique with this bread and achieve equally good results, if not better.)

  3. Transfer the dough to a lightly oiled, large bowl, cover tightly and allow to ferment for 2 ½ hours. Fold the dough twice at 50 minute intervals. If the gluten development was less than “moderate” after mixing, a third fold may be needed. If so, do the three folds at 40 minute intervals.

  4. After fermentation, transfer the dough to a floured board and lightly pre-shape into a round. Allow the dough to rest for a few minutes, then gently round up the dough and transfer it to a well-floured banneton. Cover with a slightly damp towel or with plasti-crap. (The miche could be proofed on a well-floured linen couche, in principle. I have never attempted to transfer a slack dough loaf of this size from a couche to a peel. I imagine the results would be … amusing.)

  5. While the bread is proofing, pre-heat the oven to 500F and set up your steaming method of choice. (Hamelman calls for heating the oven to 440F.)

  6. After steaming the oven and loading the bread, turn the oven down to 440F. After 15 minutes, remove the steam source and turn down the oven to 420F. Hamelman says the total bake time is “about 60 minutes.” You can leave the miche in the turned off oven with the door ajar for 10 minutes after the bread is done. This will dry out the crust somewhat, but this is a very wet bread, and the crust will soften.

  7. Cool thoroughly on a rack. Hamelman prescribes covering the cooled miche with baker's linen and delaying slicing for at least 12 hours. (I think I actually did forgo slicing it for 12 hours once. It is an excellent idea, but I am weak.)

Miche Crumb

Miche crumb close-up

The flavor of this bread, like Poilâne's Miche, definitely improves over 1 to 3 days. I personally like the flavor best the day after it was baked. Of course, the next day is also pretty terrific, and the next … Hamelman says that the bread gets more sour and the “wheat flavor intensifies” over several days. My experience has been that the sourness does increase. I would describe the change in flavor as “mellowing” rather than intensifying. I think that is the same as what Hamelman describes as “the flavors melding.”

This bread has excellent keeping quality. Kept in a bread bag or bread box, it is very enjoyable for a week. It also freezes well. I usually cut it in quarters to freeze, wrap each quarter in 2 layers of freezer wrap and place them in food-safe plastic freezer bags.

Enjoy!

David

Submitted to YeastSpotting

 

PMcCool's picture
PMcCool

Leader's Classic Auvergne Dark Rye

Daniel Leader's book, Local Breads, is simultaneously one of the most intriguing and most frustrating bread books.  His breads are rooted in the baking traditions of several European countries, but rendered in ingredients and techniques that are generally accessible to home bakers in the United States.  Many are utterly delicious and lovely to behold.  But ... one has to recognize going in that a number of the formulae are riddled with errors, often in the quantity or proportion of the dough ingredients.


Such is the case with his Classic Auvergne Dark Rye, which begins on page 158 of the book.


My descent from home baker to mad scientist began innocently enough.  When asked "What kind of bread would you like?", my wife responded "How about something with oatmeal?  Or rye?"  Since I was at that moment looking at the Auvergne Dark Rye, it seemed auspicious.  So much for superstition.


The levain is built with 45 grams of stiff levain (50% hydration), 50 grams of water, and 50 grams of fine or medium whole rye flour.  So far, so good.  This was my first week home from a 3-week trip to South Africa and I had refreshed my starter, which I keep at 50% hydration, early in the week.  Having mixed the levain, and put it in a covered container, I retired for the night.


This morning, I mixed the first stage of the dough, which called for all of the levain, plus 350 grams of hot tap water, plus 500 grams of medium to fine whole rye flour.  The rye flour I have on hand is a medium-to-coarse stone-ground flour, so no big change.  (I had mis-read the formula the first time through and thought it called for medium to light rye, which is another thing entirely.)  The resulting dough was a thick paste, nearly, but not quite, as stiff as modeling clay.  In looking at the notes, I read that Leader describes the dough at this stage as a "thick, smooth batter."  


Uh oh.


I did a quick search of TFL, found a few questions about the bread, but no answers.  I searched the Web; same result.  I posted here with questions and received mostly condolences (which were appreciated).


Deciding that I was already past the point of no return, I decided to forge ahead.  So I added water and stirred.  And added more water and stirred.  And added yet more water, until I had a thick, smooth batter.  It only took an additional 325 grams of water.  Keep in mind that my "thick, smooth batter" may have an entirely different consistency than Mr. Leader's "thick, smooth batter".  Chasing a description is not unlike chasing the wind - even if you do catch it, how do you know for sure?


For those of you keeping tally, the dough currently stands at 45 grams of levain, 50+500 grams of flour, and 350+325 grams of water.  That's really, really high hydration!  And it isn't soupy, which is another adjective that Mr. Leader uses to describe the dough!


I let it rest for the prescribed time, then mixed in the salt (20 grams) and bread flour (200 grams).  The dough formed a big ball on the KitchenAid's paddle attachment and allowed itself to be pushed around by the dough hook.  I eventually did a few stretch and folds in the bowl and called it good, then set it aside for its second fermentation.


Mr. Leader recommends that, at the end of the second ferment, the dough be scraped out onto a "lightly floured" counter, where it can be gently shaped into a "loose boule, without overhandling it."  I eye the dough, then flour the countertop heavily.  Not surprisingly, the dough sticks to everything that contacts it; hands, scraper, counter top.  After a few brief tussles, it is in an almost round shape which lasts until I try to move it onto the waiting parchment paper and peel.  Eventually, the less-than-round dough is on the peel, where it is patted into a somewhat misshapen, um, miche.  In the French sense of the word.  I allow it to ferment at the prescribed temperature for the prescribed time.  The surface doesn't appear to have the promised cracks, but then, is it realistic to expect that it could with that much water in it?  Into the preheated 500 dF (!) oven it goes, with steam.  Baking time is estimated at 35-45 minutes, so at 35 minutes the thermometer is inserted and easily reaches 205 dF.  I declare it done.


The surface still isn't fissured, although there may be a network of smaller cracks lurking beneath the flour on the surface.  The color is a deep mahogany.  As it cools, the crust softens and the bread feels slightly spongy.  It will be tomorrow evening, at the earliest, before I cut into this bread.  The thermometer's stem had gummy bits clinging to it when I pulled it out of the loaf, so it will require some time for all that moisture to distribute itself evenly throughout the loaf.  I really don't know what to expect.  It could be so moist as to be almost cake-like.  It could be a gummy mess.  Time will tell.


Here's a picture of the exterior:


Auvergne Dark Rye


I would estimate that the loaf increased 50-75% in height, due to ovenspring, from its unbaked height.  It didn't appear to spread any further while in the oven.  It looks pretty (albeit rough) on the outside.  I'll post again after cutting into it tomorrow.


Paul


Postscript - the crumb:



I have to say that I am very pleasantly surprised by this bread; especially considering the amount of improvising that went into it.  It has a straight-up, hearty rye flavor; no seeds or spices are included.  For me, that's a good thing.  There's no particular sourness as of this first tasting.  The crumb, while close-textured, is not heavy or stiff.  Instead, it is very moist, with a pleasing yielding firmness.  The crust is fairly soft and relatively thin; not so surprising when you consider how much water is in this dough, even given the high baking temperature.  I'm looking forward to some great sandwiches this week.


For anyone who is thinking of giving this a first, or second, try, you may want to note that I took the bread out of the oven at shortly before noon and left it on a cooling rack, covered with a tea towel, until about 9:30 p.m.  Then I wrapped it in plastic film (it's bigger than any of the plastic bags I have on hand) and left it until nearly 7:00 p.m. today before slicing it.  The purists among you may prefer to leave the bread completely unwrapped.  My concern was that the air conditioning might pull moisture out of the bread faster than I wanted.  There was no gumminess, probably thanks to the long cooldown with plenty of time for some of the moisture to evaporate while the rest of the moisture redistributed itself.


The other tip that I would suggest is to do the shaping directly on the parchment paper.  Why wrestle something this sticky into shape, only to have it be distorted during the transfer onto the paper?


Now that I've lived through the experience, I think I could make this again and have it turn out reasonably well.  But probably not in the next few weeks.  Someday.  Maybe.


Paul


 

venkitac's picture
venkitac

Dumb question: how to delete photos from my freshloaf account

 


I'm out of quota space for photos, I've been fiddling with the file upload page and popup for a while now to figure out how to delete photos, no luck. I will freely admit that I feel like an idiot, I even searched the site for help and couldn't find out. Help!

flournwater's picture
flournwater

Fantastic Cornbread

I have never liked sweet cornbread.  I can't remember ever, until now, having eaten a sweet cornbread that tasted good enough for me to want another piece.  This morning I finished the BBA Challenge assignment for Peter Reinhart's cornbread as published in "The Bread Bakers Apprentice".  It's incredible, in spite of the fact that it calls for granulated sugar, brown sugar and honey.


The full recipe was far too large for our needs so I reduced it by half.  That was fairly easy, until I came to dividing 3 eggs, but using one whole egg and one egg yolk solved that problem.  Baked in an 8 inch (rim to rim measurement) cast iron pan.







Click on thumbnails for larger view

MommaT's picture
MommaT

recipe or name for greek daily bread with sesame on top

Hi,


 


I had the very big pleasure of spending the last two weeks in a tiny village on the coast of greece, south and east of Kalamata.


The primary bread at the local grocery store, and every taberna we visited, was the same simple loaf. Oval or torpedo shaped, it had a moderate to fine crumb with white-bread taste (although quite yellow inside) and sesame seeds all over the top.  It did not taste overly milky or egg-y, but more like a loaf with quite basic ingredients.


My kids (and I) really enjoyed this bread.  Does anyone know the name of the bread or have a recipe?


Thanks!


MommaT

PMcCool's picture
PMcCool

Question about Leader's Auvergne Dark Rye

I've started Leader's Auvergne Dark Rye and run into some confusion.  Leader describes the first stage of the dough as a "thick, smooth batter".  That's using the starter, 350 grams of water and 500 grams of medium or light rye flour.  Right off the bat, a dough at 70% hydration is not going to be a batter.  In my case, the matter is compounded by the fact that I'm using a stone-ground whole rye flour, which is even more absorptive.  Batter?  No.  Play-Doh?  Yes.


After scrounging around TFL and the Web, I find that people have questions about this bread but no one is supplying answers.  The final dough hydration of 53% is more in the bagel range and nowhere near Dan's description of "soupy"


So, here's what I've done thus far.  Chasing a description is like chasing a will-o-the-wisp, I know, but if I'm going down in flames, I may as well shoot for the biggest fireball I can make.  To achieve said "thick, smooth batter", I've added water.  And more water.  And still more water.  Another 325 grams of water, in total.  That will put the final dough (assuming that I use every bit of the 200 grams of bread flour the formula calls for) at a 136% hydration.  My guess is that it will be more sludgy than soupy, since it isn't soupy right now.  We'll see how it turns out.


Meanwhile, do any of you have any prior experience with this bread?  Or suggestions to offer?


Thanks,


Paul

Salome's picture
Salome

Whole-grain Oat Crackers

Of course I had a look at this week's yeastspotting. And there I spotted this: Barley-Flatbread by Dan Lepard. It looks gorgeous, doesn't it? I've ever since I lived in Sweden for a year been fond of flatbreads, crackers, crispbread. There, crispbread or as they say, "Knäckebröd", is a staple food. They've got an endless variety and have it with every meal. Here in Switzerland flatbread exists as well, but only in a limited choice. I prefer to bake my own, so I decided that it's time again. I didn't follow Dan Lepard's formula though, I made up my own! I am very pleased with the outcome. I wanted that the oat-flavor really comes out, and I achieved this goal. I love the mildness of these crackers! They turned out wonderfully crisp and light. I'm sure that they won't last long, the next time I'll make double the recipe. (I always work with small amounts when I'm experimenting because I hate to throw things out.)



It's actually pretty easy. I think if you haven't got a grain mill at home or you can't get your hands on whole-grain oat flour, you could probably blend some oats so that it resembles flour somewhat. I used very coarse flour as well, so I'd say that should work. No guarantee though, I haven't tried it myself!


Whole-grain Oat Crackers

liquid levain 15 g mature starter 60 g coarsely ground oat 60 g water soaker 75 g coarsely ground oat 10 g whole-grain rye flour 75 g milk (I used skimmed milk) 4 g salt final dough all of the soaker all of the liquid levain 50 g of whole-wheat flour oats to sprinkle



  1. mix the ingredients for the liquid levain the evening before you bake.

  2. combine the ingredients for the soaker at the same time

  3. the next morning, mix the soaker and the liquid levain with the whole wheat flour and knead for about five minutes. Don't expect any gluten to form, it will remain a rather "grainy" ball. The dough is not sticky or tacky.

  4. put the dough into a small bowl, transfer it into a plastic bag. Let it rest for about half an hour in a warm environment. (In my case the microwave with the light on and the door somewhat open.)



  5. roll the doughevenly to around 3 mm thick. brush sparingly with water, sprinkle with oats and roll again, to around 2 mm thick. I used my old pasta dough machine for that.

  6. Place the dough on a baking sheet with a parchement paper. cut into rectangles as desired, let it proof uncovered for one hour.



  7. bake one baking sheet in turn in 230°C for about 12 minutes, or until the edges are brown. Turn the rectangles upside down after a couple minutes.

  8. let cool on a rack and store in an airtight box when they've cooled down.



Salome

ehanner's picture
ehanner

SF SD With many folds



Today I made a second batch of the Multi fold, no knead bread Shiao-Ping as been working on and posting. I decided to make a few changes in concept to suit my style.I started with her SFSD post HERE and except for the yeast and flours and baking temp, followed that method.


First, instead of using yeast to rise the dough and sourdough starter to flavor it, I used a scant 1/4 teaspoon of yeast and relied on my robust starter to provide leavening. So it was a true sourdough loaf. Next time I'll skip the yeast totally.


Second, I added 5% rye flour to the dough mix. In the past I have found that even a small amount of rye helps the depth of flavor greatly. In this case I added 25g of whole rye.


Third, I found I needed an extra 30 minutes ferment time for the dough to feel right, so call it 4.75 hours ferment time total at 73 degrees F. That was also the dough temperature.


Forth, I gave the proof time 40 minutes. I'm not certain that I didn't over do that by a few minutes. The crust expanded well but the cuts got all weird like a cat fight happened on top. As usual scoring is my Achilles heel and the first thing to go.


Lastly, I wasn't happy with the chewiness of the crust yesterday baking for an hour  at 350F. Today I used 450F for 10 minutes, steamed and lowered the temp to 430 for another 20 minutes. The crust would have been more crisp had I left it in the oven for 5-10 minutes to dry. I may get a tattoo reminding me to stay on checklist. I like the crust much better today.


Overall, the flavor of the sourdough is mild and the overall taste is great. It is remarkable how creamy yellow the crumb is and how well the dough feels using only a plastic scraper to fold a few times. I think it is a safe statement that our mixers are oxygenating the dough and do nothing for flavor. Simple hand mixing and gently folding will develop gluten and deliver to your hands a very luxurious and satiny dough. I didn't pull a window pane but I assure you that this dough is the essence of gluten development.


I like the schedule of this bread. I started it at 8 AM and I'm eating it at 4 PM. My other Sourdough breads I usually start in the evening after dinner and get them in the oven around 10 AM. -12 PM. That's OK but I like the one day aspect. When I have time, I know I can make a good loaf on the day I think of it.


That's it. One day SF SD. Not the best bread I've ever made but pretty darn good for a one day project. No Mixer needed!


Eric

bassopotamus's picture
bassopotamus

Bread seems less sour

I've got a 67% hydradation starter that has been going about 7 months now, and lately, it seems less sour than it used to. Some background:


 


Mother lives in the fridge full time and gets fed once or twice a week as needed.


She gets 3 parts flour to 2 parts filtered water to 1 part starter at feeding time.


I feed half all trumps high gluten and half king arthur whole wheat.


I bake about 16 loaves a week.


 


About 3 weeks back, I dropped the mother I was using and cracked shattered the plastic container. For the sake of safety, I through out my big container. I keep 4 oz of emergency back up, which was about 1 month old at the time. I built up the mother from that (I keep about 24 oz on hand). The leavening power is still there, the starter smells like it did. I'm doing a two stage build (same recipie as always). 4 oz mother gets built to 30 oz of in between starter, then the next day the 30 oz gets is used to make about 2.8 kg of dough. At both stages, the rise is really good for a wild yeast starter. Final bread has a nice texture, nice crust, but isnt' real sour.


 


So what should I do to get some of the sour flavor back? My recipe doesn't use a ton of mother, but it is the same one I always used. Do I need to change my feeding schedule for a while? Change what I'm feeding for a while (started with rye, could feed a few times with rye) . Other suggestions are welcome.


 


 


 


 

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