The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

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KMIAA's picture

DLX or Bosch

I'm interested in a second mixer and am undecided on the DLX & Bosch.  I've read reviews on sites on both but am still not sure which one.  Anyone who ones the Bosch & DLX, if you can give me your input on the machine, it would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks.

Yippee's picture

20100324 Mini Oven's 100% Rye - by Yippee

Decades ago, my elementary school teacher Miss Yeung wrote down 'Simplicity is Beauty' in my graduation autograph book.  Even though I knew every word in this phrase, it was too complicated for a 6th grader who was then indulging in Hello Kitty and Melody dolls to fully appreciate the profound meanings behind it and I haven't given it much thought since. Today, the same phrase just dawned on me when I completed Mini Oven's 100% rye. Isn't this bread a true reflection of the message my teacher was trying to convey years ago?  It's a simple loaf made with Mini's magic ratio. The moist, airy, glossy, and flavorful crumb is the beauty I've witnessed and experienced. 'Yummy' would be an understatement to describe her bread. In order to appreciate the combination of the complexity of flavors and the spongy-yet-substantive texture, you've got to try it yourself!

Last time, I was uncertain what my relationship with rye would be when I made the 90% rye loaf.  Remember, we're Asians and we did not grow up with and are not even familiar with rye breads.  In fact, my kids had refused to eat rye bread again after trying a terrible sourdough rye loaf from a famous local boulangerie. Hear this:  "We have a personal grudge against rye bread!!! We won't eat it again!!!" That's how bad it was but that has changed. This time, these 100% rye loaves have received accolades from my entire family and we're in love with them!  I sincerely thank Mini Oven for her time and generosity in sharing 'trade secrets' unconditionally and it has made my first 100% rye experience very successful and enjoyable.

The details of procedures are discussed in Mini's blog.  I doubled her formula and adapted to a 3-bulid, 50% hydration firm starter. A summary of my formula is as follows:




The specifications of the flour I used are as follows:

Approximately, slightly more than half of the dough I prepared went into an 8x4x4 Pullman pan, which was filled to about 1" below the rim. Next time this amount should be reduced to make a perfect Pullman loaf.  The remaining dough went into a greased Pyrex bowl.  Fermentation took place at 80F for 8 hours.  


I removed my baking stone and replaced it with a sheet pan prior to baking.  These loaves were covered and went in the oven when it was cold. They remained covered until 15 minutes after the oven had reached 410F. Then the probe of a thermometer was inserted in one of the loaves and baking continued until internal temperature registered 205F. 


This time I didn't forget about my rye breads in the oven.  They were sliced 36 hours later.


Here are some pictures:


Yumarama's picture

Anyone have experience with wood baking frames?

I ran across this blog post yesterday and it got me interested. The blogger, theinversecook, used a wooden baking frame to make his very straight sided heavy rye bread. Since I can't seem to locate a Pullman pan anywhere nearby (online they cost an arm & a leg to ship up from the states) I thought maybe this would make a decent substitute.

Bonus points for having the ability to make it any size I may darn well want.

Anyone here used one before? Any tips to it's use? Should it get lined with parchment? What sort of wood would be best to use? Since it's a rather small item, even fancier hardwood planks would be possible, while plain pine would be good too, if it doesn't give off piney flavours.

(Edited broken link to flickr pics. just hop over to the blog to see the cool baking frame)

ehanner's picture

More Fromartz's Baguettes

Intrigued by the beautiful Baguette's that Sam Fromartz has been baking, I continue to plod along, improving my skills at baking this simple(?) bread. The original post on his blog can be found here.

I'm actually trying to see if I can taste and see an improvement in the bread when using some original French T55 flour sent to me by a very kind friend a while back. This is Organic T55 from Biocoop and reported to be very good flour. My new go to AP flour is from Dakota Maid. I like the colors I get and the flavors of the grain. After the side by side with the T55, I'm wondering about the amount of malted barley they add. The crust seems to color much more quickly. I used the same formula and method for both flours to arrive at these results. Both breads were flavorful and exhibited good qualities. Not the same but both very good.



T55 Baguette has a nice lighter golden color. The flavor didn't suffer in comparison to the DM flour which was much darker from the same bake time.

Crust detail on the T55. You can see the more golden color, even through the heavy handed additional flour I dusted over the dough prior to baking.

This is the Dakota Maid crumb. Very translucent and a nice crisp crust.

ramat123's picture

Looking for professional artisan bread book

Hi there,

I am baking artisan breads for about two years at home with a great 20 months maintained starter and sell about 10 loaves a week to neighbours and friends at work.

I have gain great knowledge from the forum and the tfh website and now looking for an advanced book on artisan baking.

I am interested in advanced theory (I think I know the baiscs well) and maybe some interesting recipes.

Can you please reccomend me on such a book?

Thank you all,


mountaineer cookie company's picture
mountaineer coo...

Bagels in about an hour

Alright as promised, here is the instructions for my Bagels.  I don't do the whole percentage thing, I am a by feel baker, so my flour measurements aren't set in stone.  First thing ya want to do is preheat your oven to 450 degrees.


1 1/2 cups water

1 1/2 tsp. sea salt

2 tsp. reg. instant yeast (not quick rise)

1 1/2 tsp. sugar

1 1/2 tsp. Barley malt syrup 

1 T. canola oil


Wisk above ingredients together till yeast is desolved  




Then kneed in 4 cups high gluten flour (I use king Arthur Sir Lancelot flour)  Use more or less, dough must be stiff.  I kneed dough in my Kitchen aid only till it comes together, then transfer it to the table where I kneed for about a minute then cover with plastic wrap for ten mins and kneed again, here is a before and after picture of my kneeding methods.  I kneed almost all my doughs this way, much easier on the wrist.



Next shape into 4 and a 1/4 oz balls, it should make 8.  Then insert a small rolling pin or your finger and make a whole in the center and stretch into bagel like shape. see pictures.

Spray parparchment lined pan with pam.  Let sit for around 20 mins.  Meanwhile get your water ready

12 cups Water in a covered electric  skillet.

Large blob of malt syrup, sorry I don't measure this stuff, it's too sticky :)  Here is a picture of what I call a blob.

After bagels have proofed for 20 mins boil for 1 min. each side (do not start timing until water returns to a boil)  I do 6 at a time because I make about 4 times this size of recipe, but you could boil 4 at a time.  

Drain and add toppings at this point, try to work quickly in order to gain back shrinkage after boiling.  Place bagels on the same parchment lined pan the proofed on.  I suppose at this point you could bake them on a stone, I don't.  Bake them in a 450 degree oven for around 15 mins, more or less depending on how you like your crust.  Here is a picture of the finished product.


Asiago cheese (My Favorite)

I'm sure you can figure out the rest,  Happy Baking!!



Rose Run Lady's picture
Rose Run Lady

Stumped over flaxseed

My bread rises all gnarly-looking, and I'm stumped. Here are the ingredients, which I am careful to add in the correct order, at room temperature:

1/2 cup water; 3/4 cup evaporated milk; 2 tbsp. unsalted butter; 2 tbsp. honey; 1-1/2 tsps. salt; 1/3 cup oatmeal; 2 cups bread flour; 1 cup whole-wheat flour; 2-1/4 tsps. dry yeast; 1/2 cup flaxseed.

I have tried to solve the problem in all of the following ways:

Tried a different bread machine, plugged into a different electrical outlet;

Added flax at different times during the baking cycle--in initial mix, during first knead, during second knead, when machine beeps;

Tried fresh, organic flaxseed and boxed flaxseed;

Tried different brands of flour;

Tried fresher yeast from the organic grocery and packet yeast from the store;

Selected different bread settings on the breadmachine;

I'm convinced the problem is with the flaxseed, although my neighbor, an expert breadmaker, says this does not make sense.




Kerrvin93's picture

Have been lurking for a while, and finally joined.

Hello, all.

My name is Matthew, and I'm new to the forums.  I am not new to the site, however.  I began baking bread about a year ago.  I was standing at work (then working in a machine shop--lots of time to think!) thinking to myself, "I really love bread.  No, I REALLY love bread! I should learn to make some bread." Specifically, I had a sharp sourdough in mind while contemplating my love of bread.  That weekend, I found a copy of Paul Hollywood's 100 Great Breads on the bargain rack at Barnes and Noble, and I was hooked. 

A few months later, I discovered this site and embarked on my wild yeast adventure.  I began a sourdough starter by following The Sourdough Lady's instructions, and named him Karl.  He's still in my fridge, and has survived a trip from Western PA to my new home on the North Shore of Boston.  I moved last year with my wife to attend Seminary, and while I don't get to bake nearly as often as I would like, it is the first thing on my mind if I have some free time. 

Last week, I saw Shiao-Ping's instructions for the Gerard Rubaud Miche, and was so excited that I made the recipe and ordered Peter Reinhart's BBA. I did not make the Miche, but ended up with 5 12oz Batards.  We kept one and gave away 4, and I have since been getting rave reviews on the bread.  I will most definitely be following that formula again.  Thank you, Shiao-Ping! I've got bread on the brain big time, now, and finally decided to join the site. 

As much as I love baking, my recently renewed interest in artisan bread is not good as I have been far too focused on developing my bread skills this week to pay attention to my Greek translation. I love this site, and I have enjoyed reading all of your comments and tips over the past year, and I am looking forward to big advances in my breadmaking in the future.

Doughtagnan's picture

Sourdough Hovis Granary (c)

As the girlfriend  is a big fan of Granary bread (c) I tried a "normal" dried yeasted loaf, which though tasted proper granaryesque, it did not have much oven spring and was therefore a pretty unimpressive specimin and certainly not worthy of posting on these august pages (especially if the brilliant Shao-Ping has just posted some absolute blinders!) So, as my sourdough always comes out consistantly i've given the old Granary the full SD  treatment with my Rye starter. It's just out of the oven but I think it'll be worth getting some bacon lined up for brekky tomorrow - no crumbshot till then.  I just used my regular SD recipe from The River Cottage Baking book - briefly  250g Hovis Granary (c) flour 350ml water, 50ish grams starter mixed and left overnight, then a further 300g Hovis Granary (c) flour splash of olive oil and twist of salt, kneaded and deflated 3 times shaped/proofed for 2 plus hrs then baked from cold in cast iron at max (250c fan) for 40mins covered 10 uncovered (lowered to 200c fan) makes a boule/mini-miche of around 800 grams.

Cheers Steve


 And this morning, as promised the compulsory crumbshot after some slices were cut for a bacon sarnie!

Andrew S's picture
Andrew S

Scotch Baps

Hello Everyone!


Scotch Baps.


Hand mix.   

Dough Temperature.             24˚ Centigrade.

Yield,  9  @ 70g.  660g.         Includes  5% excess for process loss.

Bulk Fermentation Time.      120 mins

Knock Back.                           90  mins

Here is a formula and method for a small batch.  When upping the yield, go by the %s and not the given recipe. 


100                  Strong Flour   390g.

59                    Water              230g.

5                      Butter             20g.

2                      Yeast               7.75g.

2                      Salt                 7.75g.

2                      Sugar              7.75g.


Dough Temperature Calculation.         There are several ways to do this.  I will give you a basic one to start with, if you want more involved, please contact me.

Take the temperature of your FLOUR    Subtract the number from your DOUBLE THE DOUGH TEMPERATURE. This will give you your  WATER  Temperature.

E.g.   Flour is  20 C.  So,   20 taken from 48 = 28.  Which is your  WATER TEMPERATURE

METHOD.     Put your tempered water in a bowl, add your yeast and disperse.  Add the flour and the other ingredients on top of that.  Bring it all together, trying to keep one hand clean.  I like to use a plastic scraper to help with this.

Tip your bowl onto a work surface; continue to combine with one hand and your scraper.  Work the dough with both hands now, stretching, tearing and turning.  Note.  Your B.F.T time starts from the point when the dough has roughly come together and not when you have finished mixing.  Continue to extend and tear the dough, it should become very smooth and elastic, being able to extend a long way before tearing.  I give my dough 15 to 20 minutes of hand mixing but for small rolls like these, you can get by on 5 to 10 minutes.



Lightly mold the dough into a round, place back into the bowl, cover and leave for the remainder of the time before knock back.   I.e.  20 minutes  from 90 gives 70 minutes in the bowl.  When the knock back time is reached, give another minute or so gentle kneading to expel the gas.  Return to the bowl and cover for the remaining allotted time.


When the fermentation time is up, take the dough and scale off @ 70g.  Try to do this in one piece and not end up with several little bits making up the 70g.  Cover the pieces with either plastic or a damp cloth.  Mold the dough pieces into round shapes, cover and rest for 5 minutes then re mold and cover.  Leave for 10 minutes to relax.



Pin out to slight oval shapes, roughly 4 by 3 inches in size.  Wash the surface of each dough piece with water and dip into flour (to give a good crust).  Place onto a tray, dusted with semolina.  Cover with a light cloth, plastic sheet or a tin etc. Whatever works for you.  Leave at room temperature until doubled up and a light touch with a finger leaves a slight indent. This is around 40 minutes in my kitchen.

Bake @  232C.  450F.  for around 10 minutes. 



Allow to cool on a wire rack.