The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

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venkitac's picture

Dumb question: how to delete photos from my freshloaf account


I'm out of quota space for photos, I've been fiddling with the file upload page and popup for a while now to figure out how to delete photos, no luck. I will freely admit that I feel like an idiot, I even searched the site for help and couldn't find out. Help!

flournwater's picture

Fantastic Cornbread

I have never liked sweet cornbread.  I can't remember ever, until now, having eaten a sweet cornbread that tasted good enough for me to want another piece.  This morning I finished the BBA Challenge assignment for Peter Reinhart's cornbread as published in "The Bread Bakers Apprentice".  It's incredible, in spite of the fact that it calls for granulated sugar, brown sugar and honey.

The full recipe was far too large for our needs so I reduced it by half.  That was fairly easy, until I came to dividing 3 eggs, but using one whole egg and one egg yolk solved that problem.  Baked in an 8 inch (rim to rim measurement) cast iron pan.

Click on thumbnails for larger view

MommaT's picture

recipe or name for greek daily bread with sesame on top



I had the very big pleasure of spending the last two weeks in a tiny village on the coast of greece, south and east of Kalamata.

The primary bread at the local grocery store, and every taberna we visited, was the same simple loaf. Oval or torpedo shaped, it had a moderate to fine crumb with white-bread taste (although quite yellow inside) and sesame seeds all over the top.  It did not taste overly milky or egg-y, but more like a loaf with quite basic ingredients.

My kids (and I) really enjoyed this bread.  Does anyone know the name of the bread or have a recipe?



PMcCool's picture

Question about Leader's Auvergne Dark Rye

I've started Leader's Auvergne Dark Rye and run into some confusion.  Leader describes the first stage of the dough as a "thick, smooth batter".  That's using the starter, 350 grams of water and 500 grams of medium or light rye flour.  Right off the bat, a dough at 70% hydration is not going to be a batter.  In my case, the matter is compounded by the fact that I'm using a stone-ground whole rye flour, which is even more absorptive.  Batter?  No.  Play-Doh?  Yes.

After scrounging around TFL and the Web, I find that people have questions about this bread but no one is supplying answers.  The final dough hydration of 53% is more in the bagel range and nowhere near Dan's description of "soupy"

So, here's what I've done thus far.  Chasing a description is like chasing a will-o-the-wisp, I know, but if I'm going down in flames, I may as well shoot for the biggest fireball I can make.  To achieve said "thick, smooth batter", I've added water.  And more water.  And still more water.  Another 325 grams of water, in total.  That will put the final dough (assuming that I use every bit of the 200 grams of bread flour the formula calls for) at a 136% hydration.  My guess is that it will be more sludgy than soupy, since it isn't soupy right now.  We'll see how it turns out.

Meanwhile, do any of you have any prior experience with this bread?  Or suggestions to offer?



Salome's picture

Whole-grain Oat Crackers

Of course I had a look at this week's yeastspotting. And there I spotted this: Barley-Flatbread by Dan Lepard. It looks gorgeous, doesn't it? I've ever since I lived in Sweden for a year been fond of flatbreads, crackers, crispbread. There, crispbread or as they say, "Knäckebröd", is a staple food. They've got an endless variety and have it with every meal. Here in Switzerland flatbread exists as well, but only in a limited choice. I prefer to bake my own, so I decided that it's time again. I didn't follow Dan Lepard's formula though, I made up my own! I am very pleased with the outcome. I wanted that the oat-flavor really comes out, and I achieved this goal. I love the mildness of these crackers! They turned out wonderfully crisp and light. I'm sure that they won't last long, the next time I'll make double the recipe. (I always work with small amounts when I'm experimenting because I hate to throw things out.)

It's actually pretty easy. I think if you haven't got a grain mill at home or you can't get your hands on whole-grain oat flour, you could probably blend some oats so that it resembles flour somewhat. I used very coarse flour as well, so I'd say that should work. No guarantee though, I haven't tried it myself!

Whole-grain Oat Crackers

liquid levain 15 g mature starter 60 g coarsely ground oat 60 g water soaker 75 g coarsely ground oat 10 g whole-grain rye flour 75 g milk (I used skimmed milk) 4 g salt final dough all of the soaker all of the liquid levain 50 g of whole-wheat flour oats to sprinkle

  1. mix the ingredients for the liquid levain the evening before you bake.

  2. combine the ingredients for the soaker at the same time

  3. the next morning, mix the soaker and the liquid levain with the whole wheat flour and knead for about five minutes. Don't expect any gluten to form, it will remain a rather "grainy" ball. The dough is not sticky or tacky.

  4. put the dough into a small bowl, transfer it into a plastic bag. Let it rest for about half an hour in a warm environment. (In my case the microwave with the light on and the door somewhat open.)

  5. roll the doughevenly to around 3 mm thick. brush sparingly with water, sprinkle with oats and roll again, to around 2 mm thick. I used my old pasta dough machine for that.

  6. Place the dough on a baking sheet with a parchement paper. cut into rectangles as desired, let it proof uncovered for one hour.

  7. bake one baking sheet in turn in 230°C for about 12 minutes, or until the edges are brown. Turn the rectangles upside down after a couple minutes.

  8. let cool on a rack and store in an airtight box when they've cooled down.


ehanner's picture

SF SD With many folds

Today I made a second batch of the Multi fold, no knead bread Shiao-Ping as been working on and posting. I decided to make a few changes in concept to suit my style.I started with her SFSD post HERE and except for the yeast and flours and baking temp, followed that method.

First, instead of using yeast to rise the dough and sourdough starter to flavor it, I used a scant 1/4 teaspoon of yeast and relied on my robust starter to provide leavening. So it was a true sourdough loaf. Next time I'll skip the yeast totally.

Second, I added 5% rye flour to the dough mix. In the past I have found that even a small amount of rye helps the depth of flavor greatly. In this case I added 25g of whole rye.

Third, I found I needed an extra 30 minutes ferment time for the dough to feel right, so call it 4.75 hours ferment time total at 73 degrees F. That was also the dough temperature.

Forth, I gave the proof time 40 minutes. I'm not certain that I didn't over do that by a few minutes. The crust expanded well but the cuts got all weird like a cat fight happened on top. As usual scoring is my Achilles heel and the first thing to go.

Lastly, I wasn't happy with the chewiness of the crust yesterday baking for an hour  at 350F. Today I used 450F for 10 minutes, steamed and lowered the temp to 430 for another 20 minutes. The crust would have been more crisp had I left it in the oven for 5-10 minutes to dry. I may get a tattoo reminding me to stay on checklist. I like the crust much better today.

Overall, the flavor of the sourdough is mild and the overall taste is great. It is remarkable how creamy yellow the crumb is and how well the dough feels using only a plastic scraper to fold a few times. I think it is a safe statement that our mixers are oxygenating the dough and do nothing for flavor. Simple hand mixing and gently folding will develop gluten and deliver to your hands a very luxurious and satiny dough. I didn't pull a window pane but I assure you that this dough is the essence of gluten development.

I like the schedule of this bread. I started it at 8 AM and I'm eating it at 4 PM. My other Sourdough breads I usually start in the evening after dinner and get them in the oven around 10 AM. -12 PM. That's OK but I like the one day aspect. When I have time, I know I can make a good loaf on the day I think of it.

That's it. One day SF SD. Not the best bread I've ever made but pretty darn good for a one day project. No Mixer needed!


bassopotamus's picture

Bread seems less sour

I've got a 67% hydradation starter that has been going about 7 months now, and lately, it seems less sour than it used to. Some background:


Mother lives in the fridge full time and gets fed once or twice a week as needed.

She gets 3 parts flour to 2 parts filtered water to 1 part starter at feeding time.

I feed half all trumps high gluten and half king arthur whole wheat.

I bake about 16 loaves a week.


About 3 weeks back, I dropped the mother I was using and cracked shattered the plastic container. For the sake of safety, I through out my big container. I keep 4 oz of emergency back up, which was about 1 month old at the time. I built up the mother from that (I keep about 24 oz on hand). The leavening power is still there, the starter smells like it did. I'm doing a two stage build (same recipie as always). 4 oz mother gets built to 30 oz of in between starter, then the next day the 30 oz gets is used to make about 2.8 kg of dough. At both stages, the rise is really good for a wild yeast starter. Final bread has a nice texture, nice crust, but isnt' real sour.


So what should I do to get some of the sour flavor back? My recipe doesn't use a ton of mother, but it is the same one I always used. Do I need to change my feeding schedule for a while? Change what I'm feeding for a while (started with rye, could feed a few times with rye) . Other suggestions are welcome.





venkitac's picture

Effects of choosing when to stretch-and-fold?

I've been going thru a lot of bread books comparing the techniques presented by the authors in the last week or so. Most every book advocates Stretch&Fold, of course. But there seem to be a couple of differences in approach:

(a) Some books say consistenty for most recipes "S&F N times (depending on recipe, N is 1,2,3,4) at 20 mins intervals from the beginning, then let the dough double in bulk". This means that the dough is undisturbed for anywhere from 2-4 hours towards the end after the inital N S&Fs, when it doubles.

(b) I've read in atleast a couple of other books (Hamelman, Beranbaum) that it's a bad idea for bread with commercial yeast to ferment for more that 75 mins without receiving some form of handling to redistribute nutrients. In particular, if you look in Hamelman's books, all his recipes advocate S&F throughout the bulk fermentation at even intervals. But the dough still needs to double at the end too. This likely means that the fermentation time to double the dough is longer, because even if we're super gentle, we'll certainly lose some gas in each S&F and thus the end-to-end doubling time must be longer.

So with method (a), the time to double must be shorter than method (b). Since fermentation time is critical in the whole equation, but so is nutrient consumption by yeast, which way is "better" or "correct"?

The other issue here with method (b) above is that if I do S&F throughout (evenly distributed), sometimes dough doesnt' double because from the last S&F to end of bulk fermentation is only about 1 hour. For example, one of the recipes called for a 3 hour bulk, and folding at hour 1 and hour 2. At the end of 3 hours, I had dough that was barely 1.5 times in size. I'm guessing that is because I handled the dough too rough at hour 2 and let too much gas escape - does that sound right?

P.S. In addition to the above, *many many* recipes call for an overnight retardation in the fridge, particularly in Peter Reinhart's books. This clearly means no one is S&Fing it at 2AM:) Which is contrary to (b) above, but then again, the fermentation is much much slower. So I guess the nutrient redistribution doesn't need to happen because of the slower fermentation? Must be.

P.P.S I have been reading and thinking too much about bread. I woke up at 2AM today and went thru the whole analysis Debra and Dan did for my messed up sourdough (too much acid) in my head. Now I know I have a serious obsession, I should probably take a couple of days off from baking:)



hc's picture

Gluten gave out? Why?

So I shaped a sourdough boule last night and put it in the refrigerator. This morning when I took it out, this is what I saw:

Any idea why I might have gotten that blowout on the left side? I shaped carefully with good surface tension. Could I have let it bulk ferment too long (~9 hours) before shaping?

_veronica_'s picture

What are we eating?

Can anyone out there help me find a computer program that will analyze our breads? We've recently opened a co-op bakery and have been asked for that info on all of our products and we need help!

Love this site and have learned so much yet know so little. How can this be so much fun?