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Salome's picture
Salome

"Herbstsonne" - a German Sourdough bread

I've actually never been much into white bread. I still like to bake it occasionally, to mix up my diet and to have new challenges in my baking, the breads I'm the most fond of though are definitely breads which include some whole grain, some seeds . . . which are overall somewhat nutritious. This is the kind of bread which I like the best as an everyday bread.


I think, the bread I'm about to introduce here, definitely falls into this category. It is a German Bread called the "Herbstsonne" (eng: autumn sun) because of its tipical scoring. I had again some problems with the bread's height, I made a very wet dough (therefore I adjusted the amount of water in the recipe below) and wasn't able to shape it well. I let it proof well, so when I scored it it deflated to much after my taste and didn't get an extraordinary oven spring. Next time, I'd probably bake it as it is or just score a cross in the middle.


Herbstsonne


 


liquid levain


30 g mature culture


165 g rye flour (I used a medium rye, something inbetween white and whole grain rye)


165 g water


soaker


33 g oats


33 g sunflower seeds


23 g flaxseeds


90 g water


10 g salt


 


final dough


all but 30 grams of the liquid levain


all of the soaker


166 g rye flour


66 g whole-grain rye flour


80 g water (adjust amount as required)


flaxseeds and oats



  1. 1. mix the ingredients for the liquid levain, set aside until it's ripe

  2. at the same time, mix the ingredients for the soaker, put in the fridge

  3. Mix the soaker, the liquid levain and the remaining flour and water together, knead in a mixer three minutes on low speed, then three minutes on somewhat higher speed.

  4. let the dough rest for 30 minutes.

  5. shape into a round boule (it's sticky!), if required, wet the dough a little bit so that the flaxseeds and oats can "glue" to the boule (roll the boule in the flaxseeds/oats mixture). Put the boule into a floured proofing basket.

  6. let the dough proof - I retarded it in the fridge: I kept it in the fridge for about twelve hours, and let it finish proofing at air temperature for about another two hours. I poked the dough and it reacted slowly.

  7. I dropped the dough gently on a baking sheet and scored it like a sun. (What I wouldn't do the next time, because it deflated the dough to much in my opinion.)

  8. Baking: 20 min at 230°C, another 25 minutes at 210°C, then I turned the oven off, opened the door and let the bread in there for another 10 minutes.

  9. Let cool overnight.


There's a lot of flavor in this bread! It's very moist, of course it's not airy like a white bread, but that's not what I was looking for anyway. I remember that it had a very good keeping quality the last time I baked it, which isn't surprising because of the soaker.


 



I used some slices for a sandwich today, which I stuffed with lettuce and a home made cottage-cheese-dried-tomato-spread. Yumm! (the spread is very easy. Take some spoonfulls of cottage cheese, cut some tomatoes (the kind in the oil) into pieces, add some salt and pepper, some basil if you've got it on hand, and a tiny bit of honey and mix it briefly. tadaa!)



Salome

venkitac's picture
venkitac

Starter sourness/ripeness question

I've been going thru a lot of extremely informative old posts on sourdough starters today, and TFL is awesome! One thing is still not clear to me, though: I have read in a couple of books that "if your starter tastes sour, it is past its prime to leaven bread. Refresh the starter, wait till it is just before the point of collapse, and then it is at its prime". I believe I understand the "just before the point of collapse" part, that's the same deal as for a commercial-yeasted poolish. What I don't get is the former part: I have a starter at about 70% hydration. When I refresh this starter say every 8 hours, at 8 hours it doesn't quite look like "just before the point of collapse", it is still happily rising, but it is already plenty sour. So I'm confused: I have a starter that is, according to the book, past its prime to leaven bread, but hey it still isn't at the point of collapse anyway.  (I first thought it must be the low hydration. Then I made a batch of starter at 100% hydration. That too, even after just 4-6 hours after a feed, has developed sourness but it's nowhere near collapse). What should I make out of this?


Thanks!.

ehanner's picture
ehanner

Greek Sesame Bread


The dough didn't spring all that much in the oven.




This is a light and easy to chew bread with good flavor



Slashed deeply and ready to proof



After 1 hour proof time, ready to bake


MommaT asked about a recipe for a Greek Bread that she had just had while in the Mediterranean on vacation. A common bread sold everywhere and wonderful to the nose and mouth senses. I suspect the view of the beautiful Greek villages with their white stucco buildings and red tile roofs, not to mention the sea air and fine wine might have an impact on the experience of eating a piece of artisan bread dipped in the most fragrant  Greek Olive oil. Ahhh, it takes me back.  So---


When DSnyder suggested a possible recipe after connfering with his Greek DIL, well I hopped right on it. I converted the recipe to weights for the most part, at least where it counts. I used 135g per cup for the flour weight and KA AP flour. My hydration came in at 73% counting the milk and oil as liquids.


I thought the dough to be a bit firm but the recipe does call it a stiff dough. I mixed it as per  suggested but I let it rest for 20 minutes and then folded and kneaded a bit. It was starting to become smooth but not fully delevoped when I shaped it into a round and covered it. About an hour passed annd the dough had doubled nicely and felt like a puff ball. I shaped it into a tight oval, brushed an egg wash over the top and sprinkled a generous topping of toasted sesame seeds over the loaf. I don't usually slash the loaf prior to proofing but that's what was called for so I made a deep slash down the top center as you can see. I covered the loaf with plastic, dusted the plastic with spray oil and flipped the plastic wrap over so as to avoid a mess after proofing.


I had pre heated the oven to 400F and heated a 1/2 C of water for steam. The bread was loaded, in with the water and after 15 minutes lowered the heat to 350F for another 15 minutes. Actually I didn't quite go to the full 30 minutes baking time. I thought I was done enough for the first try at 27 minutes. The bread feels very light and is soft enough on the crust it is just a little hard to slice. Perhaps just just a little more oven time to dry it out.


The aroma is wonderful. Toasting the sesame seeds is always worth while. My daughter approves, saying "this is really good" , that is a pretty tall hurdle. She is a tough critic.


I don't know if this looks or tastes like what MommaT was talking about or even what David's daughter in law Stephanie intended. Perhaps she will see this and comment. Thank you Stephanie and David for your interest in creating this bread. Please let me know what you think.


Here is my contribution to the recipe.


Greek Bread with Sesame Seeds


Luke warm water (80F) 1/2 Cup (118g)
2 Tablespoons Olive Oil (30g)
5 Tablespoons warm milk (74g)
1 envelope ID Yeast (6g (2-teaspoons))
2-1/4 Cups AP Flour (304g)
1/2 teaspoon Salt (sea salt, fine grind)

1 egg and 2 T milk for washing before seeds are applied
2-4 T Sesame Seeds, toasted


Hydration 73%


Method as called for in Davids post here
Mix, autolyse, knead and ferment till double. Punch down, shape, slash and wash with egg wash, seeds and proof for 45-60 minutes.
Bake at 400 for 15 minutes, reduce temp to 350 for and additional 15 mins.,steam as normal


Eric


 

Herbsman's picture
Herbsman

Why do my focaccia go stale within 24 hours?

I use a recipe similar to Dan Lepard's for focaccia.



  • 100% flour (obviously)

  • 35% sour starter (100% hydration)

  • 0.74% yeast

  • 2.5% salt

  • 65% water

  • 5% extra virgin olive oil 


When it cools, it's extremely light and fluffy, with HUGE holes in it. The closest you'll ever get to eating clouds. But for some reason, it goes tough and hard within 24h despite being kept in an airtight plastic box.


WTF?! Should I store it differently?


When I make 'dry' bread (i.e. without oil) it stays nice for days on end... sometimes up to a week.  But this is no doubt because it's already dry, so it doesn't matter so much that it's getting drier every day...

xaipete's picture
xaipete

Ciabatta Pizza

Yesterday I tried the ciabatta pizza that trailrunner posted about a week ago. I was very impressed with the results.


The pizza formula has a lot of yeast in it and went through bulk fermentation like a rocket (I had to put it in the fridge to slow it down.) When it had tripled (after about 3 hours in fridge--probably faster but I just let it sit there until I was ready), I heavily floured my counter, literally poured the glutenous dough onto the flour, and then sprinkled more flour on the top. I patted the blob into a circle about 1/2 an inch thick. Then the trick was how to get the blob onto the pan-sprayed parchment. I did the best I could but had to reshape it a bit after it landed. Didn't seem to hurt it any. I topped it with tomatoes and basil (topping basil was an obvious mistake at this point because it dried out in the oven--next time I'll put it on as a garnish; sometimes in the heat of the moment I do stupid things).


I baked it on a preheated stone on the bottom rack for 8 minutes. (Trailrunner had warned me that I needed to bake the moisture out of the tomatoes and that was good advice.) After taking it out of the oven with my peel, I removed the parchment paper, topped it with some of TJ's marinated rope-type mozzarella, and slid it back in the oven for another 8 minutes. It rose up real nice in the oven and produced a delicate, soft, thickish pizza crust. The pizza as a whole didn't have as much flavor as I was hoping for but my tomatoes weren't home grown (I used an heirloom supermarket variety), so I'm not surprised as the topping was so plain. Next time I think I'll reduce the yeast to 3 g (I used 7 g by mistake) so it will take longer to go through bulk fermentation and perhaps develop a little more flavor. But all and all I was pretty happy with the results. Thanks trailrunner for posting this great pizza!


Topped with tomatoes and ready to go into the oven.



After 8 minutes



After 15 minutes (TJ's cheese had some oil in it so that's why it browned; regular mozzarella probably wouldn't brown.)



Crumb (or is it slice?)




250 g AP flour


227 g water (I might reduce to 210 g next time)


3 g yeast (I misread the recipe and used 7 g by accident)


7 g salt


tomatoes, thinly sliced or halved cherries, or a combination of both


mozzarella cheese, grated or thinly sliced


fresh basil leaves, for garnish


olive oil


kosher salt


Put the flour, water, salt, and yeast in mixer bowl and mix with paddle to incorporate. Let dough rest for 5 minutes to hydrate. Knead with dough hook on speed 2 for 10 minutes. (My dough never formed a ball like trailrunner's so next time I'm going to use a little less water).


Put dough into a container and let triple.


Place dough onto a heavily floured countertop, sprinkle top of dough with flour, and pat into a round about 1/2 inch thick. Transfer dough to pan-sprayed parchment paper, top with thinly sliced tomatoes, and bake on a stone in a preheated 500º oven for 8 minutes to drive off the moisture from the tomatoes and set the dough. Remove pizza and parchment from oven, discard parchment and top with mozzarella cheese. Return pizza to oven and bake until done, about another 7 to 8 minutes.


Garnish with fresh basil leaves, and a light sprinkling of kosher salt and olive oil.


Makes one pizza (serves two people).


The original post is from LilDice.


http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/3621/quick-rustic-ciabatta-pizza-recipe-full-howto-pics


http://hollosyt.googlepages.com/quickrusticciabattapizza


I also found another link to this pizza with pictures and discussion. NB: the reduced amount of IDY.


http://www.prurgent.com/2009-04-15/pressrelease36039.htm


--Pamela


 

venkitac's picture
venkitac

Effect of quantity of feed on sourdough starter ripening

Pamela recently posted a thread on various effects on sourdough here: http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/12896/bread-seems-less-sour#comment-76494. I have a followup question to that:


Would anyone happen to know the effect of the quantity of the feed on the starter? Reason I ask is this: usually, all starter maintenance guidelines tell you to feed every 6-12 hours, to double or triple the starter. Yesterday, I was reading the Cheeseboard Collective Works, and they tell you to feed the starter to 9X volume! But OTOH, they say that you can use that starter in a very long window of time, between 12-24 hours after the feed. Might it be the case that if you feed a starter more, the window in which the starter is ripe is a lot bigger and thus we get more freedom of when to use? What other possible effects does quantity of feed have on the starter? Thanks.

clazar123's picture
clazar123

Pillowsoft crumb-technique?

I guess pillow soft is a good description of what I want to achieve. When you squeeze-test a package of these buns, they feel like a pillow you would sleep on.Depresses easily but has bounceback. I'm not talking "store-bought" guar gum,air injected buns,stick-like-wallpaper paste-to-the-roof-of-your-mouth kind of buns. I have seen soft sandwich buns at a local organic, flour,water,yeast,salt,starter kind of bakery.It is easy to get a bite without all the filling squishing out.  Of course, they don't want to talk about technique-then I wouldn't buy their buns. My bread crumb turns out chewier-it's good but I want to be able to achieve the soft bun.


I have sifted this site numberous times and I'm missing something because I'm not able to achieve this. I have tried adding:potatoes, milk,eggs and oil after various posters suggested that. Delicious experiments but still not there. I have to believe it is a technique or hydration issue rather than an ingredient issue. I have always used either Better for Bread (Gold MedalBrand) flour or AP flour for these endeavors. I also use a KitchenAid stand mixer and favor using sourdough with a little additional yeast due to time constraints (I bake on weekends).


So, how does one achieve a pillowy crumb and a crust that is thin and easy to bite off without being tough?


 

D.W. Phillips's picture
D.W. Phillips

Bread Slicing Replacement Blades

I am a woodworking hobbist and I'm looking for a source to be able to purchase bread slicing blades approx. 10 in. long with a hole drilled in each end.  Where can I find such a source to purchase from?

Shiao-Ping's picture
Shiao-Ping

Sourdough Black Tea Bread - using James MacGuire's Pain de Tradition procedure

      


       Sourdough Black Tea Bread - using James MacGuire's Pain de Tradition procedure


                                   


                                   the crumb


I always remember that very dense Black Tea Sourdough that I made a month ago (it feels like ages ago).  Back then I received a lot of kind remarks and encouragements but really the sourdough was like a stone.  So, I had on my list to try my hands again at some stage.   With the new technique I learned from making James MacGuire's Pain de Tradition, I thought my time was ripe for a second go at it.  Back then, my dough hydration was a shy 64% with a dough size of 685 g.  This time I jacked up the hydration to 80% (total flour 500 g and total liquid 400 g) for a dough size of 910g.   Not only that, I gave the dough an overnight cold retardation in the fridge.


My formula 


210 g wholemeal starter @ 75% hydration


290 g white bread flour


90 g KAF Sir Lancelot high gluten flour


125 g cool black tea (I used 2 English Breakfast tea bags)


151 g water


18 g honey


16 g Tea Liqueur


10 g salt  


2 g instant dry yeast


 


With only mother and son at home (my husband and daughter are away on the International Young Physicist Tournament in China) I was afraid that I would have a lot left over; but no, my son couldn't have enough of it, and he made me slice up the whole loaf. 


                   


                    more crumb


                                                                                            


                                                                                            and the close-up


Tonight my muse is the music from my late teens/early 20s; my whole house is ringing with the music, I think my roof is protesting.  My son walks out of his bedroom, dancing to the music.  He has a smile on his face as, when the daddy is away, the mummy lets him free-range. 


Oh, let me get back to the bread.


The bread is lovely.  It's too easy - with MacGuire's procedure.  The crumb is favourful and the mouthfeel is mildly chewy - totally unlike the cottony/fairy floss like crumb of yeasted breads.  There is "substance" to the crumb.  The addition of sourdough starter and the retardation overnight really do the trick for me. 


One complaint - I might have over-dosed the bread with the instant dry yeast!  Even though I used the prescribed quantity (ie, 2 g), I think less instant yeast so that the dough doesn't rise up too much might be good. 


Isn't that funny - a month ago I couldn't have enough aeration and holes in my sourdough, now I am begging for less!


Shiao-Ping 


 

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Miche, Pointe-à-Callière: Another James McGuire formula (from Hamelman's "Bread")

 


Even before the recent crop of beautiful breads made with James McGuire's “Pain de Tradition” formula, I had been planning to bake the “Miche, Point-à-Callière” from Hamelman's “Bread” this weekend. Hamelman attributes this bread to McGuire, whose intention was to replicate the type of bread baked by the first French settlers of what ultimately became Montreal. The name of the bread, “Pointe-à-Callière,” was the name of their first settlement.



Miche, Pointe-à-Callière


The other, more well-known, bread meant to approximate French bread of that era is Pain Poilâne. Hamelman's formula is for a 82% hydration Miche (very large boule) made with high-extraction flour. It is a pain au levain with no added yeast. The principal difference between McGuire's and Poilâne's miches is the higher hydration of McGuire's. Actually, I make this bread with 2 oz less water than Hamelman calls for, which makes it a 76% hydration dough.


I have made this bread with first clear flour, Golden Buffalo Flour (a high-extraction flour from Heartland Mills) and with a mix of bread flour and whole wheat. Personally, I prefer the results with first clear flour over the others.


 


Overall Formula

 

 

High-extraction whole-wheat flour

2 lbs

100.00%

Water

1 lb, 8.2 oz

76.00%

Salt

0.6 oz

1.80%

Total

3 lb, 8.8 oz

177.80%

 

Levain Build

 

 

High-extraction whole-wheat flour

6.4 oz

100.00%

Water

3.8 oz

60.00%

Mature culture (stiff)

1.3 oz (3 T)

20.00%

Total

11.5 oz

 

 

Final Dough

 

 

High-extraction whole-wheat flour

1 lb, 9.6 oz

 

Water

1 lb, 4.4 oz

 

Salt

0.6 oz

 

Levain

10.2 oz (all less 3 T)

Total

3 lb, 8.8 oz

 

 

Procedure

  1. Make the levain about 12 hours before you want to mix the dough. Dissolve the mature culture in the water, then mix in the flour. Cover tightly and ferment at room temperature. (I let the levain ripen at room temperature for about 10 hours overnight. I then refrigerated it for another 6 hours. This was a matter of my convenience. It probably did increase the sourness of the final dough, which happens to be fine with me.)

  2. To make the dough, mix the flour and water in a large bowl or the bowl of a stand mixer, if you have one that can handle this much dough. Cover and let stand for an autolyse of 20-60 minutes. At the end of the autolyse, sprinkle the salt over the dough, add the levain in chunks and mix thoroughly. Hamelman says to mix the dough at second speed for 2 to 2 ½ minutes to get a loose dough with only moderate gluten development. This time would be for a professional spiral mixer, of course. DDT is 76F. (I mixed the dough in a Bosch Universal Plus. It took about 4 ½ minutes to get what I regarded as “moderate gluten development.” I think one could easily use the “stretch and fold in the bowl” technique with this bread and achieve equally good results, if not better.)

  3. Transfer the dough to a lightly oiled, large bowl, cover tightly and allow to ferment for 2 ½ hours. Fold the dough twice at 50 minute intervals. If the gluten development was less than “moderate” after mixing, a third fold may be needed. If so, do the three folds at 40 minute intervals.

  4. After fermentation, transfer the dough to a floured board and lightly pre-shape into a round. Allow the dough to rest for a few minutes, then gently round up the dough and transfer it to a well-floured banneton. Cover with a slightly damp towel or with plasti-crap. (The miche could be proofed on a well-floured linen couche, in principle. I have never attempted to transfer a slack dough loaf of this size from a couche to a peel. I imagine the results would be … amusing.)

  5. While the bread is proofing, pre-heat the oven to 500F and set up your steaming method of choice. (Hamelman calls for heating the oven to 440F.)

  6. After steaming the oven and loading the bread, turn the oven down to 440F. After 15 minutes, remove the steam source and turn down the oven to 420F. Hamelman says the total bake time is “about 60 minutes.” You can leave the miche in the turned off oven with the door ajar for 10 minutes after the bread is done. This will dry out the crust somewhat, but this is a very wet bread, and the crust will soften.

  7. Cool thoroughly on a rack. Hamelman prescribes covering the cooled miche with baker's linen and delaying slicing for at least 12 hours. (I think I actually did forgo slicing it for 12 hours once. It is an excellent idea, but I am weak.)

Miche Crumb

Miche crumb close-up

The flavor of this bread, like Poilâne's Miche, definitely improves over 1 to 3 days. I personally like the flavor best the day after it was baked. Of course, the next day is also pretty terrific, and the next … Hamelman says that the bread gets more sour and the “wheat flavor intensifies” over several days. My experience has been that the sourness does increase. I would describe the change in flavor as “mellowing” rather than intensifying. I think that is the same as what Hamelman describes as “the flavors melding.”

This bread has excellent keeping quality. Kept in a bread bag or bread box, it is very enjoyable for a week. It also freezes well. I usually cut it in quarters to freeze, wrap each quarter in 2 layers of freezer wrap and place them in food-safe plastic freezer bags.

Enjoy!

David

Submitted to YeastSpotting

 

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