The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

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SourFlour's picture
SourFlour

Proofing over a long period of time

Does anyone have experience with proofing your loaves for long periods of time? Unless I am using a refrigerator, most of my loaves will be properly proofed in 2-5 hours.  However, I am trying to figure out a way to ferment during the daytime, shape right before going to bed, and then bake them in the morning (8-10 hours).


I imagine the way to do this is to use very small amounts of starter, or a not so active starter.  The one bread I have been successful at so far has been bagels.  I am currently using a 20hr 4:4:5 125% hydrated starter as 5% of my dough, and am getting just about proper proofing in a cool room over night.  But I would also like to apply this technique to ciabatta or baguettes.


Any advice?


Thanks,
Danny - Sour Flour
http://www.sourflour.org

jembola's picture
jembola

Rinehart, Hammelman, or Lepard?

With the kids home for the summer, I pretty well abandoned my bread baking/learning routines but school is coming and I'm ready to get down to it again.  Meanwhile I got some birthday book money (the only way I get to buy books these days) and am looking to order two books.  Trouble is, there are four on my list. I'm hoping you folks can help me.  Which two would be the best combination for a wanabe whole grain bread/sourdough bread baker?


Peter Rinehart's Whole Grain Breads


Peter Rinehart's Bread Baker's Apprentice


Dan Lepard's Handmade Bread


Mark Hammelman's Bread

guyshahar's picture
guyshahar

Gluten-Free Sourdough Loaf

Hi there


I have recently become very interested in Sourdough baking, and, being Coeliac, need to make gluten free bread.  I have evolved the recipe below - the dough proofs really well and the taste is great.  The only problem is that the inside of the bread has a sort of uncooked quality about it every time.  It is fine when well-toasted, but not really edible as untoasted bread - it is quite moist and a little sticky.  I thought this might have something to do with the cooking time, but I increased this significantly - and tried it at both higher and lower temperatures, and it didn't solve the problem.  I substituted brown rice flour for some of the sorghum flour last time, hoping that this would make it drier inside, but it made no difference.


Does anyone have any ideas what I might be doing wrong?  The recipe is below.


 


Ingredients:


200g Sorghum flour


100g ground Quinoa


100g Tapioca flour


100g Potato starch


75g Chestnut flour


25g ground Hemp seeds


25g ground Flax seeds


 


120g starter


10g salt


1 tblspn live yoghurt


¼ tblspn baking soda


500ml water (around 30 degrees)


 


Directions:


1     - Put starter and 300ml of water in a large bowl


2   – Stir in ground quinoa, hemp and flax, chestnut flour and half of the sorghum flour (may need to add a little more water if not enough)


3   – Add the live yoghurt


4   – Leave for a few hours in a warm place.


5   – When risen, remove a small amount to use as the basis for the next starter.


– Add the rest of the water, and stir in all the remaining ingredients  (may need to add a little more water if this is not enough).


 


7   – Put in a bread tin and leave to rise for a few hours.


8   – Cook at 180 degrees for around 40 minutes.  Remove from tin, and cook for a further 10-15 minutes.


– Leave for an hour or so, then eat.


 


 

wally's picture
wally

Hamelman's Pain au Levain

Today I baked loaves of the pain au levain that we created in the French bread workshop at KAF.  The recipe we followed there varies slightly from those found in Hamelman's Bread in that no rye flour is involved.  The baking temperature is also lower - 220° C versus the 240° C in his book.



I also scaled this to produce two 500g batards:


Overall formula


500g sir galahad (or KAF's AP) flour  (85%)


88g whole wheat flour  (15%)


400g water  (68%)


11g salt  (1.8%)


First build


11g sir galahad


4g whole wheat


9g water


3g culture (I maintain my starter at 60% hydration)


The first build should take place approximately 30 hours before the bake.


Levain


52g sir galahad


8g whole wheat


36g water


27g first build


The second build is mixed approximately 18 hours before the bake.


Final dough


437g sir galahad


76g whole wheat


355g water


11g salt


120g levain (this is the weight of the levain after backing out the 3g of original culture, although given the small amount I left it in)


The final dough mix occurs approximately 6 hours before the bake. Desired dough temperature is 76-78° F.


Mix ingredients except for the salt and levain until they just come together.  Autolyse the flour and water mixture for 20 - 30 minutes. Add the salt and chunks of levain and mix on second speed until moderately developed - with a stand mixer this took me about 5 minutes.


Dough undergoes a bulk fermentation of 2 - 2.5 hour with two folds. I went for 2.5 hours with folds at 60 minute intervals.


Divide into two equal pieces of dough, lightly round and bench rest for 20-30 minutes.


Shape into batards and allow a final fermentation of 1.5 - 2 hours.  I placed my batards seam side up on a well-floured couche.


Score, load into preheated oven to 220°, steam and bake approximately 35 - 40 minutes.  If using an unvented oven, crack the door slightly once the dough begins to show color.  (I misted both batards before placing them in the oven, and then misted them twice again at 2 minute intervals and I think it helped my cuts remain moist enough to open during the bake).



The end product was two 13oz loaves. I'm pleased with the outcome.  My slashes opened moderately - these are about the best gringes I've produced.  And the crumb shows good oven spring as well.


Oh - and being lazy and cheap, here's the flipper board I used to move them from my Home Depot couche (kudos to Eric and others who pointed out that a painters drop cloth is basically a couche - but so much cheaper!!) to my baking stone:



Yes, if you look carefully you'll see that it's actually the serated cutting insert to a box of food service wrap.  Completely jury-rigged, but it works!


I like this particular bread!  Good for basic sandwich use and especially with a good cheese or tapenade.


Larry

alabubba's picture
alabubba

What I baked this week

This is my first blog entry here on TFL so here goes:


It started out like most weeks. I knocked out a couple loves of basic white bread on Monday.


My scale arrived from Amazon.com on Tuesday along with my new solder sucker and I was anxious to try it out but didn't want to get too much bread on the counter so I decided to wait. Wed completely got away from me and I didn't even cook dinner (McDonalds to the rescue) so along came Thursday and I decided to convert my usual recipe from cups to weight.


Thursday


I also made a large batch of Portuguese sweet bread using a recipe from this thread (holds99)


On the upper left is the basic white loaf, all the rest is from the sweet bread recipe. (Note, I did not double the recipe. It makes a bunch of dough.



 


I baked a loaf of basic white again on Friday, using some Seal of Minnesota Flour that one of the grocery stores in my neck of the woods decided to carry in #50 bags (for $16.00) and it was FAB.


I usually use walmart brand cheep AP. I would post pics but we ate the evidence. Will post pics of the next loaf. I had about 20 percent more rise and the crust and crumb rival Wonder Bread! It didn't make it past breakfast the next morning.


So Saturday rolls around and my daughter (20yo) decided she wanted my wife's French Onion Soup. And she wants it in a bread bowl. (I love a challenge)


So I have been wanting to try a version of Ruchbrot (from this thread)


 


What I came up with was this:


650g Whole Wheat Flour


150g Rye flour


200g AP flour


650 ml water (100° f)


2-1/2 tsp yeast


2-1/2 tsp salt


--1 egg for wash--


______________


 


Mix everything together in a large bowl. knead everything together into a smooth dough. Let rise until doubled. Form the dough into small boules. Preheat oven to 450 ° f-475 ° f. Wash with the egg to help seal the crust. Let rise until almost doubled and bake for about 25 minutes until done. Internal temp of 195° f


 


I let them cool and sliced the tops off, pulled the guts out and filled. They held up beautifully, No leaks at all. even after 6 hours, no leaks.


Oh, and did I mention the bread was YUM, Earthy, Hearty, and robust.




 


 

SofiasDad's picture
SofiasDad

Favorite commercially available starter?

Hi all, This is my first post on this forum. I have been busy reading many other posts to see if my burning question has already been answered BUT people seem to skip over this part in most discussions.


Until last year I owned the King Arthur Flour sourdough starter and kept it alive and happy for three years and used it every ten days or so. I can't honestly say I ever noted any detectable tang in the breads I made with it - I have no doubt I was not using it correctly. It died when we moved to San Diego and I haven't replaced it yet.


I wonder if I should buy from KAF again or try the Carl Griffith, Goldrush, Ed Wood, Fermented Treasure starters. Does anyone have a strong preference?


 


Thanks in advance, Michael

erg720's picture
erg720

Altus & formula

Hi guys.


Does anybody know how do we build formula that have an altus (left over bread)?


I mean, is this is part of the flour/the water or what? 


Thanks, Ron.

avatrx1's picture
avatrx1

Is firm starter more potent that a 100% starter

In recipes that call for a firm starter but don't specifiy, what is the purpose of the firm starter.  Do you get more "bang for your buck" so to speak with a firm starter vs a standard 100%?


I'm becoming more familiar with using a starter and my bread gets good oven spring, but now I'm faced with a recipe that calls for a firm "levain" which I believe is another name for starter.  They don't specify how firm.  Can't I just use the 100% and modify the recipe by reducing the amount of water or will that have an impact on the rise I ultimately get when I assemble the final dough for baking?


Is there a general rule of thumb for yeast vs starter amount?  Specifically tuned to hydration of starters? use X starter to replace Y yeast?


I'm determined to get a handle on this.


-Susie


 


 

High Desert Jack's picture
High Desert Jack

Totally Frustrated Jason's Quick Ciabatta


After drooling with envy over Jason's quick ciabatta (http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/2984/jasons-quick-coccodrillo-ciabatta-bread) it's incredible crust and open airy texture I am compelled to ask for help.


Long time lurker, ten year hobbyist bread baker - and supremely frustrated. 


If anyone has the expert knowledge and hands on skill to actually crack this problem, I will be eternally grateful.


My doughs all slump, are all so sticky as to be near impossible to work with and never hold the intended shape. 


Here's the set-up, the Back Story. First, I live at 5,000 in high desert, average humidity usually under 15%. Every dough I make slumps. Whole wheat, white, bleached AP, unbleached bread flour you name it. I've got a Log with over 18 variations of flour listed. Once my dough is formed, it slumps. And doesn't rise. New yeast, old yeast, even proven sourdough starters from Sourdough International out of Idaho. Quality flours from King Arthur, or a high end bread flour from Italy, or store bought God knows what kind of flour from Wal-Mart and everything in between. Spring water, tap water, even tried distilled water. Salt in at the beginning or salt later after the yeast is working. Sugar added to the yeast water or not added. Makes no difference. Slump. Not enough of whatever to stand up and hold any kind of form. 


Hand kneaded, no kneading (5 Minute Artisan Bread), Danielle Forstier's 800 slaps against a counter top or Kitchen Aid and dough hook still my doughs slump to a flattened flat bread. I make a decent foccacia by now, but the interior is so dense I consider it the zenith of failure. If I proof the dough in a proper banneton, after turning it out on a peel, it slumps, then sticks. (yes, not only does everything slump but no matter what hydration level EVERYTHING sticks) If I form it for a baguette in a wicker basket lined with parchment paper to get the proper elongated shape, then ever so gently turn it out it slumps. If I get a half way decent rise occasionally for a boule, on parchment and slip it into a cast iron dutch oven, that rise collapses into a squat and it bakes in a squat. 


And forget the lame and slash. The few times I dared the bread sighed and gave up the ghost. What resulted was like making crackers. 


If I decrease moisture so I can firm up a dough enough to form a ball, it will slump. If I make a dough with that little moisture (approaching less than 50% hydration), it will stay formed but no oven rise at all and the crumb is as dense as can be. If I increase moisture (to nearly 90%) expecting escaping steam to aerate the crumb, no joy. It is so sticky and loose it cannot be handled at all. And does not rise. No holes. I've turned out a 90% hydration dough repeatedly on parchment, slid it onto my bricks and no airy crumb. Pretty much nothing but just flat condensed bread. If I proof the yeast and it foams beautifully, if I don't proof and add it into the mix (5 Minute Artisan method) it doesn't matter. If I use fresh dated packets or Red Star from a jar doesn't matter. 


My 2 year old oven is perfectly fine, a sealed all metal bottom which I lined with half-thickness firebricks. When the oven thermometer reads 500 (separate from the built in thermometer), in goes dough. 500 degree bricks make a great caramelization on the bottom, but the rest just lies there like a boneless drunk after a binge. (tossing in boiling water is a snap in this oven, since it's sealed). 


I'm stumped and significantly frustrated. I've kept logs so I know what works and what doesn't and so far I have 238 pages of what doesn't work. Jason's Quick Ciabatta was the last straw. That's the most beautiful bread I've seen. That's the crumb and oven spring I'm looking for and six months of precisely following his directions has produced nothing but flat tasteless bread.


One loaf, just one success is all I'm asking. Anybody with enough experience know what's preventing my succeeding? Your help will be sincerely appreciated. 


Jack




cake diva's picture
cake diva

Recipe wanted for soft multigrain sandwich bread

My daughter is asking me to bake a fiber-rich sandwich bread that has the mouth feel and texture of soft, commercial breads, e.g., Aunt Millie's, Klosterman, Butternut.  Like many of her generation, she favors soft crumb to the rougher, more substantial artisanal bread.  I searched here but found mostly hard-crusted breads.  Does anyone have what I'm looking for? --- cake diva

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