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June 6, 2020 - 9:05am
texasbakerdad's picture
texasbakerdad

Sourdough Starter Ratios, House Temperature, and other stuff

I'd consider myself an intermediate level baker. Probably baked about 300 loaves by now. I still have so much more to learn. I realized recently one major mistake I have been making... I haven't been very nice to my sourdough starter.

First, let me go over my understanding of a sourdough starter, then, I'd like to ask a few clarifying questions.

My Understanding thus far:
How to maintain a sourdough starter from a high level.

  1. Mix sourdough seed from previous batch with water and flour, walk away.
  2. A few hours later when the rising dough has peaked. Peaking migh tbe 1.5x, 2x, 3x, even 3.5x the volume depending on how strong the sourdough culture is and how wet the sourdough is. 
  3. Start over with step 1.

In order to adjust the time to the 'peak' to better align with someone's schedule the following items can be tweaked

  1. Higher/lower temperature of air outside of sourdough container
  2. Less/more percentage of sourdough seed compared to flour/water.

My Issues/Questions:

  1. The Sourdough peaks way too fast, even though I have reduced the sourdough seed ratio considerably... 15g:100g:115g (seed:hard white wheat:well water) peaked in about 4 hours at 78dF. I am setting up a time lapse camera so I can nerd out on this... I tend to get busy and forget to check the starter. Is there a danger to reducing the seed ratio too much? I just started a new batch with the following ratio 7g:100g:115g.
  2. The sourdough only peaks at about 1.8x the original volume. We have been feeding the sourdough starter with a 1:1:1 ratio every 12 hours for most of its life (until just recently). My theory is that 12 hours was always way too long of a wait for the 1:1:1 ratio and that the sourdough has not yet been allowed to reach its full potential because of the very late feeding. Do you all concur with my theory?
  3. I really struggle with staying on top of the amount of daily sourdough discard. Right now my (as you can see above) my sourdough is about 225g fed twice a day. But... is there any reason I couldn't drop it to 100g or even 50g? And then, if I want to make bread, the day before I could make a bigger batch OR the day before split off a bit for a seperate levean dedicated the loaf I plan on baking?
  4. It seems like 90% of the articles on the internet (even on King Arthur flour) recommending a 1:1:1 ratio for sourdough feedings. In my household... this seems WAY WAY WAY too high, especially since a lot of these instructions suggest feeding every 24 hours. Am I missing something? My house is usually 72dF to 80dF depending on the season. Is a 1:1:1 ratio ever a good ratio? Are 90% of the internet instructions mostly wrong?
  5. In general, am I on the right track to perfecting my sourdough?

 

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June 6, 2020 - 2:57am
edsam's picture
edsam

FWSY - longing for great oven spring/bloom

Hi all,

I'm a few months into my bread-baking journey, and have worked through a lot of the recipes in the Ken Forkish's 'Flour Water Salt Yeast' (FWSY) book. Although not for everyone, I've thoroughly enjoyed his approach.

I've baked 13 loaves since starting FWSY, and overall the results have been very good, whether using yeast, pre-ferments and/or levains, in part thanks to some advice from this website.

However, I have never yet managed to get that really impressive oven spring and bloom, where the loaves really opens up with exciting crevices! I don't usually score the dough as I was hoping for this happen naturally, but have tried using a lame a couple of times too, and I'm still not getting the dramatic oven spring I long for.

Can anyone who knows the FWSY approach advise on what I might be doing wrong or missing out? I log all of my efforts with details of the ingredients, temperatures, timings etc. here, and (as a rookie) I try to follow the FWSY recipes to the letter.

I know this kind of question has been asked many times before on many forums, but I can't pin-point specifically what I'm doing wrong.

Any help would be greatly appreciated,
Ed

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June 5, 2020 - 8:37am
Grant Bakes's picture
Grant Bakes

How to get an "ear" on sourdough bread

Like many people in the sourdough home-baking world, I think it's fun to seek an open crumb and a prominent "ear" on my sourdough batards. Before, I used to get a true "ear" about half of the time on my batards, but since I learned a simple shaping technique and a scoring technique, I have been able to crank out good ears each time I bake. It feels great when something actually works consistently! Check out my video to see how I did it!

https://youtu.be/VQ0hGGHvxhA

 

Nothing that I have been doing is groundbreaking, just shaping to create tension and scoring at a shallow angle, all I know is that this combination of consistently shaping and scoring the same way is giving me good results. So I'm going to stick with it for now!

 

 

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June 5, 2020 - 6:46am
vanessaren's picture
vanessaren

Suddenly Sluggish Starter

Hello,

(First time poster!)

My 100% hydration starter is 2 months old and suddenly sluggish. I’ve used it to bake several loaves and have had more than satisfactory results. It is typically very active and doubles within 6-8 hours. I normally bake once a week and take out my starter from the fridge several days before baking and feed once a day. (1:1:1)

However, this week, I baked twice and left the starter on the countertop and continued to feed it once a day as per usual. In the last two days, my starter has become unhappy. It is bubbling, albeit much less than normal, and rising only a minuscule amount. I have no idea what could have changed!

I have remained precise with my measurements, continued to use clean water, same flour, and have not changed any other factors. (No sudden drop in temperature.)

Any thoughts? Could there be a kind contamination? Does my starter not like being on the countertop for a longer period of time? (Seems counterintuitive...)

I really appreciate any input or thoughts!

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June 4, 2020 - 3:02pm
ahn's picture
ahn

Best way to incorporate mix-ins?

Hi everyone!

I've been experimenting with adding things like seeds, dried fruits, and olives into my sourdough these days and was wondering how other people get everything mixed in properly.

I've had the most trouble with olives as they are often quite moist and oily, so they don't stay put in the dough. For me, adding the mix-ins during my second to last set of stretch and folds gets them the most evenly dispersed. However, I've recently been favoring lamination and coil folds to maintain more air.

In my most recent loaf, I added chopped olives during the lamination, but the dough got very slippery and would not stick to itself. Also, many of the olives broke through the skin while shaping, and I wasn't sure how much that would affect the structure of the loaf. The crumb was great, but there wasn't much oven spring and the crust was rather thick and didn't stay crispy. Did the excess oil from the olives hinder the gluten and soften the crust? Should I pat the olives dry before adding them in or maybe don't stretch the dough so thin when adding the mix-ins? If anyone has suggestions, please let me know :)

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June 2, 2020 - 6:23pm
wvdthree's picture
wvdthree

Help in getting pizza from wooden peel to pizza stone!!!!

Hi all,

         I am having real trouble getting a dough (once dressed) off of a wooden peel and onto the baking stone in the oven. I am using Ken Forkish's overnight pizza dough recipe. For one 12" crust I used 250 grams "OO" flour, 185 grams water and 1/8 tsp instant yeast and 1 tsp salt. 74% hydration. Did some stretch and folds and let it sit overnight at room temp. In the AM the next day put in frig all day until I took it out 2 hours prior to shaping/baking. We are looking for a thin...ish, Neopolitan style pizza to the extent that can be achieved in a normal oven (500 degrees) on a pizza stone.

     We've only made this 4-5 times and at one point just shaped/dressed the dough on parchment but I didn't feel like the dough got the effect of sitting directly on the pizza stone as far as crispness/crust development.  So, we've moved from dressing on a metal peel to dressing on a wooden peel and "really" struggle with it sticking to the peel. The dough seemed a bit wet/sticky and sloppy. We floured the peel heavily but after we shaped the dough and dressed it on the peel by shaking the peel it was clear is was stuck in various spots.

     I have been baking SD artisan loaves for a year and a half and now have a real feel for that dough but am lost for a benchmark of how pizza dough should feel as far as hydration and extensibility. This dough is extensible, just wet.  Is 74% hydration just too wet? Can someone suggest a solid dough recipe? Super frustrating to have to trash a pizza as it won't come off the peel. We're ordering tonight from our favorite pizza take out after tonights fail ;<)   Help!!!!

 

Regards,

              wvdthree

     

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June 2, 2020 - 12:34pm
texas_loafer's picture
texas_loafer

A Texas Sourdough

After a recent disappointment with a cheese bread, I got back on the horse again and this one turned out much better. Great crust and flavor. Fairly even, open and glossy crumb. 

I fed the starter in the morning and did a 3 hour autolyse while the starter came to life

The color gradient across the loaf indicates a continual spring/bloom of the loaf throughout the bake from my scoring. I've never had it that apparent before.

Starter

64g Water (100.0%) 64g Bread Flour (100.0%)

Dough

500g Bread Flour (79.4%)

110g WW Flour (15.9%)

407g Water (64.6%)

20g Whole Grain Rye Flour (4.8%) 

13g salt (2.1%)

5 stretch and Folds during a 4 hour bulk

16 hours cold retard

Dutch Oven bake at 525 for 20 minutes with the lid on. Lowered temp to 400 and finished up with an 18 minute final bake with the lid off.

Left in the open oven for 20 minutes and cut after 4 hours.

Totals

Dough weight: 1179g

Pre-fermented flour: 64g (9.2%)

Flour: 694g

Fluid: 472g

Salt: 13g (1.9%)

Dough hydration: 68.0%


 

 

 

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June 2, 2020 - 5:48am
SheriW's picture
SheriW

Semolina subbed for whole wheat

While I was doing my bread ingredients freezer inventory, I realized I have a large quantity of semolina flour. My favorite bread is similar to Dave's Killer Bread Good Seed, with 100% whole wheat and heavy with nuts and seeds. I usually add VWG so I don't end up with a brick, and I'm wondering if this might have been the problem. I did 50/50 with the semolina and WW, but kept the rest of the recipe the same. It's normally a successful bread (my favorite), and I make it often. This time when I took it out of the pan, it collapsed. I'm thinking I either shouldn't have used the VWG or there was too much semolina. I've only ever used it with bread flour before. Any thoughts?

  • 438g water
  • 9g yeast
  • 47g molasses
  • 28g brown sugar
  • 420g WW
  • 58g VWG
  • 35g olive oil
  • 9g salt
  • 40g oats
  • 23g cornmeal
  • 29g flax seeds, ground
  • 28g wheat germ
  • 29g ea sunflower seeds, sesame seeds (black & white), pepitas, and flax seeds (all toasted)

 

 

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June 1, 2020 - 9:25pm
Matt H's picture
Matt H

Sourdough Marble Rye

Hey Fresh Loafers! Apparently this is my first blog post in 10 years! Wow, there have been lots of changes in the amateur artisan bread world. I haven't gone anywhere. I've been baking on and off, in the midst of a busy career and family life, but nothing I felt compelled to post apparently.

Like lots of other folks, I've been spending more time at home during the coronavirus epidemic. I'm so grateful to have a job that lets me work from home and a supportive family.

Being at home all day is just perfect for baking lots of bread. Much of America agrees, if you believe the news. I think it's a wonderful trend, and hope it's here to stay. I don't even mind the empty supermarket shelves with no flour or yeast, if it means that a neighbor has picked up a rewarding and nourishing new hobby. 

Trying to schedule bread baking around busy schedule, especially during the work week, was always a complex puzzle. These days it's easy to take a five minute break for that occasional "stretch and fold," to shape a boule, or to preheat the oven.

We all know how rewarding it is to have the fruits of our labor emerge from the oven golden brown, smelling heavenly, and ready to share with family and friends.There is something so comforting and reassuring about making something with your hands that can nourish your body and satisfy your soul.

For today's loaf, I had a couple of pounds of pre-pandemic rye flour left, so decided to make an old favorite, marble rye. For me, a loaf of deli rye flecked with caraway is also nostalgic flavor.

My father's family is German-American, but they were so thoroughly assimilated into Anglo-American culture, that I don't remember anyone ever talking about "the old country" or its ways. No one spoke a word of German nor own a pair of lederhosen. The only vestige of German-ness I recall is that my grandparents would drive from the suburbs into the city to visit a bakery to purchase pumpernickel and rye bread, This was soft deli rye, made with mostly wheat flour I'm sure. It would end up as ham sandwiches for lunch or slathered with peanut butter and jelly at breakfast time.

This time I chose to use my sourdough starter as leavening. Usually, I associated sourdough with crusty, hearth-style loaves, and use commercial yeast to make loaves of soft sandwich bread. But I've found that natural leavening really brings out the best in a rye loaf. I know there's a lot of cool chemistry going on here involving acid, enzymes, and starch. But for me, the take home is acid + rye = good bread.

For my marble rye, I start with the same basic dough, made with 2 parts white flour, 1 part whole wheat, and 1 part rye. After initial mixing, I split the dough in half, with the dark side getting an addition of dark malt syrup, cocoa, and a shot of espresso. The light-colored dough gets a bit of honey and a few spoonfuls of caraway seeds. Both get rolled out into a big rectangle, stacked on top of one another, then rolled up and popped in a greased loaf tin for the final proof.

This was far and away the prettiest spiral I've ever achieved. Sandwich bread like this is so versatile and useful. It makes great sandwiches, and is a great accompaniment to soup. I think there may be veggie reubens or tuna melts on the menu this week. And even my six-year old son loves it for breakfast slathered with peanut butter and jelly.

Anyhow, it's nice to be back. I've been a lurker for a long time, enjoying reading everyone's posts and progress and experiments and encouragement. This is a wonderful and quirky online community and I love all of you!

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June 1, 2020 - 2:36pm
seasidejess's picture
seasidejess

Bulk proof evaluation 100% whole grain dough

Hi all, I though I would post a few photos to show how I evaluate whether bulk proof is finished in a 100% whole wheat dough.

The pic at the top of this post is a dough that is close but not yet ready. There is a band of dough at the top that does not yet have bubbles in it.

This is a typical fermentation pattern for my doughs, perhaps because I give them bottom heat. If your dough ferments at the same rate everywhere, rather than bottom to top, look for it to appear as this dough does at the bottom: filled with of a network of small bubbles.

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