The Fresh Loaf

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aditisawhney's picture
aditisawhney

Huge tunnel at the bottom of my sourdough!

Hi,

I've been reading a lot of posts on this forum and have really appreciated all the help and advise offered!

I've been trying to make sourdough and had a peculiar problem on my second try. The dough developed a huge tunnel at the bottom.

My recipe is below:

All purpose 160 gm

Whole wheat 40 gm

Levain 40 gm (100% hydration and passes the float test)

Salt 4 gm

Water 133 gm

 

My kitchen is at 95* F and so the dough tends to proof quite quickly. I autolyse for 45 mins, then did 3 stretch & folds in 15 mins intervals (longer intervals have led overproofing due to the heat), preshaping after 15 mins and shaping after 10 mins. I'm new to all of this so my shaping capabilities are limited.

I proofed over night for about 15 hours in the fridge and put it straight to bake in a pre heated dutch oven at 450* F.

Any clue where I've gone wrong? Really really appreciate help on this!

 

roof's picture
roof

W value of American all-purpose flour?

Does anyone know the W value of American (U.S.) all-purpose flour, either for specific brands or just the range that is typical? Or where I can find this?

Spikes's picture
Spikes

understanding feeding ratios and timings - what are the principles of a starter's growth?

Dear all,

I've been reading up to try and understand the behavior of my starter, but I'm still largely confused, especially given the large number of different feeding routines and ratios.

So if you can, please indulge me in this story for a second and point out what I'm missing/got wrong.

When flour and water are mixed they will collect bacteria along the way from the environment (or things added to the mix like pineapple juice of fruit skins) and start to build yeasts and lactobacillus. In the process CO2 will be produced, a tangy taste will be developed and another bunch of chemical processes will happen, but the CO2 and the taste are what I am, maybe ignorantly, most concerned about.

Most schedules to create a starter I've seen involve the same 3 steps:

- add flour + water, stir

- some time later, often 24hrs, take some out and add more flour/water

I really disliked all the throwing away and I couldn't bear to also work out baking discards, so I didn't do anything until I found someone who simply added 20g/20g FW every day for 7 days or so and, surprise surprise, in a week I got a starter going that would double in ~6hrs.

Already there I was pretty confused: why is the entire world throwing away all that flour when just adding a little bit a a time works just fine?

One thought is that maybe that starter wasn't so great and that was partly the reason of a my not so great raising, but that's for another post.

And what's up with this magical 24hrs?

Then it comes to maintenance/feeding schedule: in principle the idea is very simple I know, those bacterias become hungry once they're done eating all the flour and need more or they'll starve. But why are we sometimes feeding it 1:1:1 ratio rather than 1:5:5? or 1:2:2? what's the point of different proportions?

Is more flour going to last longer slowing the raise period? This makes no sense if doubling is the point, because if the yeast ate even half of it, or its equal in weight, it would cause probably enough raise to look doubled. Or is it that since there's more flour more bacteria are attracted into the mix because of the surplus, making the starter stronger?

To make matter more complicated there's also the idea of mixing an already raised starter for a second raise. Yeast being stationary it may not be able to reach all the flour that was added, especially if the ratio was some crazy 1:10:10, and indeed I got an incredible 2nd raise when I did this myself. Is this indeed making my culture stronger since I don't dilute the mix with more flour/water and if so why isn't it a basic step in all those feeding schedules or even levain build-up processes? 

And when it comes to strength, why isn't a crazy ration such as 1:10:10 just gonna dilute the starter and make it weak?

thank you so much if you got all the way here I look forward to your insights and be a little less ignorant about sourdough starter.

 

Dave Cee's picture
Dave Cee

More sour. Sour-er.

I have been experimenting with larger preferments to increase the sour in my baked loaves. I am making dough this morning using a 1/3 preferment by weight, from starter (no yeast).

All other things being equal, what is the trade-off in the finished loaf when using such a large preferment? Gluten deterioration?

Just wondering. It definitely increased the sour, which I like.

Thanks and best wishes. Dave

Isand66's picture
Isand66

Durum Barley WW Egg Rolls

These came out quite well and were perfect for sandwiches and burgers or just as a dinner roll with some butter.  The maple syrup gave it just enough sweetness and the butter and egg yolks provided some softness.

Here is the link to the BreadStorm files:

Levain Directions

Mix all the levain ingredients together  for about 1 minute and cover with plastic wrap.  Let it sit at room temperature for around 7-8 hours or until the starter has doubled.   You can use it immediately in the final dough or let it sit in your refrigerator overnight.

 Main Dough Procedure

Mix the flours  and the water for about 1 minute.  Let the rough dough sit for about 20 minutes to an hour.  Next add the levain,  and the rest of the ingredients and mix on low for 4 minutes.  You should end up with a cohesive dough that is slightly tacky but very manageable.  (Note:  if you are not using fresh milled flours you may want to cut back on the water)  Remove the dough from your bowl and place it in a lightly oiled bowl or work surface and do several stretch and folds.  Let it rest covered for 10-15 minutes and then do another stretch and fold.  Let it rest another 10-15 minutes and do one additional stretch and fold.  After a total of 2 hours place your covered bowl in the refrigerator and let it rest for 12 to 24 hours.  (Since I used my proofer I only let the dough sit out for 1.5 hours before refrigerating).

When you are ready to bake remove the bowl from the refrigerator and let it set out at room temperature still covered for 1.5 to 2 hours.  Remove the dough and shape into rolls.   I made these around 150 grams each.

The dough will take 1.5 to 2 hours depending on your room temperature and will only rise about 1/3 it's size at most.  Let the dough dictate when it is read to bake not the clock.  Before baking, brush with an egg wash or melted butter and add any toppings desired.  I use black sesame seeds and toasted onions.

Around 45 minutes before ready to bake, pre-heat your oven to 450 degrees F. and prepare it for steam.  I have a heavy-duty baking pan on the bottom rack of my oven with 1 baking stone on above the pan and one on the top shelf.  I pour 1 cup of boiling water in the pan right after I place the dough in the oven.  (Note: you can bake these without steam if desired, but I find mine turn out better with the steam).

Right before you are ready to it in the oven, score as desired and then add 1 cup of boiling water to your steam pan or follow your own steam procedure.

Lower the temperature to 425-430 degrees.  Bake for 20-25 minutes until the crust is nice and brown and the internal temperature of the bread is 205 degrees.

Take the bread out of the oven when done and let it cool on a bakers rack for at least 1.5 hours  before eating if you can control yourself!

 

My favorite time of year is now when the summer flowers start bloomings.

Sjadad's picture
Sjadad

50% Whole Wheat Sourdough

After taking too long a break from baking sourdough bread, I made a new starter and got right back into it. Here’s a loaf that’s 50% whole wheat and 50% bread flour. 85% hydration. I was very pleased with the crumb.

 

 

jey13's picture
jey13

Beginners: Video on Bulk Fermentation (Awesome!)

I wish this video had been around when I was a clueless beginner! I won’t be a bit surprised if others have mentioned it—or if it was created by a well known member here. Forgive me if so, it’s been a long time since I posted here. It’s everything you always wanted to do know about bulk fermentation and then some. 

https://youtu.be/nYCS5BFA_sM

This video answers so many questions I had that people here tried so hard to answer and I just didn’t quite get. Not just what bulk fermentation is and how to know when your dough is under/over proofed (or just right), but also why sourdough recipes vary wildly in how long the fermentation is, or how much the bread should rise, and why you can’t play around with the recipe until you know what you’re doing. 

Hope it helps all the newbies out there. It’s long, but pretty much a “master class” on the subject.

 

 

shaharidan's picture
shaharidan

Brioche dough temperature for Tartine brioche recipe?

I'm planning to make the brioche from the Tartine Bread Book.

In the recipe it recommends bulk fermentation at a room temp of 70 degrees for 2 hours.

I don't have anywhere in my house that's anywhere close to that cool, especially at this time of year.

I plan to control the temp by cooling the milk, eggs, flour , and then if necessary put the dough in the fridge for a bit.

My question is, if a 70 degree room temperature is recommended, should i try to keep the dough temp at 70, cooler than that, or warmer than that?

Am I over thinking things?

The house will probably be around 77 degrees, I don't really want to get it much lower than that.

 

Thanks,

Mike

bakersteve's picture
bakersteve

Tomato powder

Does anyone have experience of using freeze-dried tomato powder? I need to know the proportion to add to flour to produce a nicely colored and tomatoey dough.

honey_and_bread's picture
honey_and_bread

How much will a market buy my home-made bread for?

I am trying to figure out how much a market will buy sourdough for. I bake at home, have all of the necessary licenses/registrations, and am ready to start my business. In NY, home processors are only allowed to sell their goods wholesale or retail, through someone else's store. So that is my plan.

I contacted a few local markets and offered to bring them a sample of my bread; 4 are interested, so tomorrow I will bring my bread to them and see if they're interested. I just have no idea what price to offer per loaf... artisan breads go for around $10/loaf in my area, but mine is organic (will they care?) My cost per loaf is currently $0.90, but I'm baking a small quantity at home so this number will change with time.

I'm hoping someone may have a $# in mind... or ratio of what the market sells a loaf for and what I would supply the loaf for? Thank you in advance!

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