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News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

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cognitivefun's picture
cognitivefun

do eggs go bad in a long fermentation?

Normally, enriched doughs are made using baker's yeast and relatively short rise times.


I made a Greek celebration loaf using PR's BBA recipe pretty much.


The eggs went in and the fermentation times turned out to be like 8 or 10 hours do to the high percentage of wild yeasts, and a confluence of that and baker's yeast (not instant).


I am wondering if the eggs go bad in this scenario as in "do not eat".


Anyone have experience with this?


Thanks!


 

davidg618's picture
davidg618

What defines a bread? or, Is a baguette, a baguette, or just a shape?

This morning I baked a variation of Anis Bouabsa baguettes. The changes are minor: 72% hydration vs. 75%; I bulk fermented the dough at 55°F vs. 41°F for the prescribed 21 hours; and I added distatic malt powder. Otherwise, my formula and applied techniques were essentially the same as those in the Anis Bouabsa's Baguettes thread. The changes were made for the following reasons. I don't trust my skills yet with a 75% hydration dough. I'm sneaking up on it. Over the weekend I made a 70% hydration sourdough (or pain au levain), and today's baguettes. Furthermore, my refrigerator maintains a 37°F temperature on the only shelf that will hold my bulk proofing container, and I was concerned that temperature would severely change the yeast's reproduction rate. (That's not a guess, I've got an erudite paper written by a couple of microbiologists on the subject of yeast reproduction rate vs. temperature as a reference.). I have the convenience of a wine closet--its too small to call it a wine cellar--that maintains a steady 55°F. Lastly, I added the diastatic malt powder to give the yeast all the edge available.


However, messing with the hydrations of these doughs got me thinking. If I changed the shape I could pass this bread off as a ciabatta, or a foccacia, or a pain rustique, and no one would challenge me: perhaps criticise, but not challenge what I called it. On the other hand, if I offered the pain au levain, to a reasonably knowledgeable eater, as a slice of boule, or batard they'd raise an eyebrow at least.


So what classifies a dough? Content (Ingredients)? Preferments? Shape? Weight? All of the above? All of the above, but not necessarily everytime?


My curiosity grew when I checked three published baguette formulae (DiMuzio, Hamelman, and Hines), and two for pain au levain (DiMuzio, Hamelman).  Their doughs' hydrations are within 2% percent of each other, as well as similar ingredients, percentages, and techniques. "Is there a "secret" crib sheet these guys aren't sharing with us?" I wondered. Yet I was baking a baguette dough that was essentially a straight dough, with hydration 9% pecentage points higher than prescribed by "common practice", using atypical techniques. Is Anis Bouabsa a rogue baker?


My interest in things that ferment isn't limited to bread baking. I also brew beer, and make wine. Among brewers there is a crib-sheet. It contains approximately two-dozen beers, and describes each of them by the same attributes which are defined both in scientific precision, e.g., specific gravity, International Bittering Units (IBU's); Lovibond (color) rating; and in subjective terms of taste, smell, and appearance. If there are specialty additives or techniques they are also described, e.g., lambics (a beer made sour by lactobacteria). Wines, of course, are mostly defined by their primary varietal (or mixtures of varietals) ocassionally by craft processes, e.g., malolacticfermentation, ice wines; and a subjective vocabulary codified by a Univerity of California at Davis, professor.


Does anyone know if bread types have been classified, or catergorized and written down, and where is it written? How are bread-baking competitions judged? What are the competitive rules, i.e., do they contain de facto categorical or classifying ingredients, technniques, etc.?


David G

Shiao-Ping's picture
Shiao-Ping

Le Pain de Seigle de Thiézac (The Rye Bread of Thiézac)

Thiézac, a village 30 km from Aurillac (260 km north-east of Toulouse, France) has a reputation of pure rye bread.  Just the sound of it is beautiful to me.  When I read about it in Mouette Barboff's Pains d'hier et d'aujourd'hui (page 64 - 67), I felt that had to try it.  I am mesmerized by the rye bread photo and crumb shot in the book, full of soul.  The book has the most beautiful bread photos I have seen anywhere.


What struck me about the crumb of the Thiézac pure rye sourdough bread is its deep caramelized color.  A forum post by Danubian at Sourdough Companion, entitled "Dark" or "Black" colour to rye bread in June 2007 says that the dark rye bread "colour is achieved by method rather than adding an ingredient that imparts 'colour'."   


I had to consult several on-line French translators to get some sense out of the Thiézac recipe and even then I still have puzzles.  For instance, about "5 à 6 kg de levain de 3 jours," to build up the levain over 3 days to 5 - 6 kg?  I guess so; but how many feedings a day, and, more importantly, what is the flour to water ratio for refreshing the starter?  And, stand the levain at room temperature for the whole time?  


There is a knowledge bank at TFL regarding rye sour and rye flour in general, but I am really not interested enough on the subject to study.  My family and myself are not rye enthusiasts.  But anything "pure," as in the case here, I am all for it.  A pure rye bread makes me want to try it and ... dream about it.


So, here it is... the result of my dream:


 


               


  


     


 


                                                       


 


Now, I have to warn you that my result is quite different from what was in Mouette Barboff's book that inspired me.  For a start, from what I can ascertain accurately from the formula figures, the overall dough hydration in the Thiézac recipe is only 53%!  I cannot work on a dough with that hydration!  I kept adding water until a medium soft consistency was obtained and reached 76% hydration.  Further, the Thiézac rye bread has diamond scoring (3 cut on one direction and another 3 cut on another direction).  My dough was too wet to attempt at any scoring.


 


                     


 


This bread is sour, too sour for my family.  Because of the whole rye flour used, it also has a very nutty flavour.  The aroma is simply amazing when it came out of the oven.


           


                     


 


My crumb looked similar to the one in the book.  To my way of thinking, if I had done the dough at 53% hydration, the crumb would have been much denser.  I can only surmise that the village bakers' formula is only a guide - they would add water on the spot if they think the dough needs more water irrespective of the formula.  But I don't know for sure.


Well, as nice as the bread is, my family is not the slightest interested in it.  


 


                      


 


I have to pile up with something else that they like for them to eat it.  And here it is:


            


                          


                             Smoke Salmon & Salad with a Dill Sour Cream Spread on Pure Rye Bread


 


For any one who is interested, my formula of this rye sourdough follows:


Day 1



  • 10 g any ripe starter at any hydration

  • 35 g medium rye flour

  • 35 water


Mix and leave it in room temperature until doubled, then move it into the refrigerator.


Day 2



  • 80 g starter (all from Day 1)

  • 80 g medium rye flour

  • 80 g water


Procedure same as Day 1.


Day 3



  • 230 g starter (all but 10 g from Day 2, reserve 10 g for future endeavour)

  • 230 g medium flour

  • 230 g water


Mix and leave in room temperature for 6 hours or until it doubles.  (Note: I cut short one day here.  The Thiézac recipe does this 6 hour feeding one day 4; ie, using "levain de 3 jours.")


Final Dough



  • 690 g starter (all from above)

  • 345 g whole rye flour

  • 345 g medium rye flour

  • 440 g water

  • 20 g salt

  • 2 g instant yeast (or 2 x 1/3 tsp)


Total dough weight was 1842 g and the overall hydration was 76%.


 


         


 



  1. Mix all ingredients and knead for 2 minutes by hand or by plastic scraper.

  2. Oil a clean bowl and place the dough in there.  Cover.

  3. Bulk ferment for 2 hours at a warm spot of your kitchen.  (My room temperature was 28C.)

  4. Upturn the dough onto a well-dusted surface.  Lightly gather the edge of the dough to the centre, turn the dough over, and lightly shape it into a boule.  Sprinkle some flour on the top. 

  5. Sprinke some flour on a piece of baking paper.  Place the dough on the baking paper.  Cover, preferrably with a big bowl, so the surface of the dough remains untouched.

  6. Proof for one hour (and in the mean time, pre-heat the oven).

  7. Bake with steam at 240C for 10 minutes, then turn the heat down to 200 C and bake for a further 40 to 50 minutes.  


 


Shiao-Ping

thewat's picture
thewat

Italian sesame / olive oil flat bread / cracker?

A year or two ago I spent a week in Marche, Italy, and at two separate bakeries - one in Ancona and one just South - I bought a flat bread / cracker, 1/2 to 3/4 inch thick, loaded with olive oil & sesame & sunflower seeds. It was thick & crunchy but not dry tasting (because of all the olive oil). I could see the sunflower seeds & taste the sesame. It looked like it had been a really wet dough, cooked in a rectangular pan. The second place I got it said it was called "Pizza Seca." I can't find anything like it, either in my books or on the web. Anyone know? I found it slightly addictive. 

Roger A Hoffman's picture
Roger A Hoffman

Doughnuts

Has anyone offered info re: yeasted doughnuts? I'm new here and since I just made a batch of great baked doughnuts, I thought I'd ask. roghoff@verizon.net

tssaweber's picture
tssaweber

Swiss Cantonal Breads

It has been quite some time since I posted on my favorite website. But (un)fortunately the business and consulting world is holding me up from blogging and bread baking. But before I disappear again in the offices of the corporate world in upstate NY, I wanted to share this picture I found by accident in one of my old bread books today.


 


My in-laws from Switzerland have celebrated New Year with us here in the super cold Midwest and brought a crown for the 3 Kings Day (1/6/2010) with them. Of course it was their expectation that I bake the traditional "Drei Koenigs Kuchen". I had to find a recipe for this to happen, but I guess I was successful.


 




I still have to work on the formula to fine tune it, but it is more or less an enhanced Zopf dough. If done I will post the formula. If some of the Swiss TFLer have their own it would be great if they could share. During the search for this recipe I found the page shared above. Of course now my quest begins to find all this cantonal formulas, bake and adapt them to the US environment.


 


Happy New Year to all.


Thomas

calliekoch's picture
calliekoch

La Brea Bagels

I received a copy of "Breads From La Brea Bakery" for Christmas and today made the bagels from it. I have made bagels from other recipes 3 or 4 times before and had reasonable results. These were by far the best looking ones. I have yet to taste them but they are also the first bagels I have made using sourdough so I think they will be good.


The recipe calls for both white starter and all white flour. I always keep my starter whole wheat and also replaced half the flour with whole wheat. Otherwise, I followed the recipe. For toppings I used poppy seeds, sesame seeds, cinnamon & sugar, and a couple were left plain.


For anybody interested in making these, the Wild Yeast website has a post based on the La Brea bagel recipe.Bagels


Bagels close


Callie

gckingbread's picture
gckingbread

Italian Star Bread

Does anyone have a recipe for italian star bread?  This is a braided bread with a smooth crust and a chewy but fluffy crumb.  It is popular in Springfield Massachusetts but I can't seem to find a recipe for it.  It may be of Scicilian origin.


Thanks

Feelin Crumby's picture
Feelin Crumby

East Coast Bakers?

Are there any other TFL-ers in the Baltimore, Washington, Wilmington, DE area (southern PA, too)? I'd like to talk to any members that might be close about sharing cost of buying bulk ingredients. I live in northern Maryland, pretty much right on the I-95 corridor. I know of KA flour distributors in both Maryland and Pennsylvania. Ciao for now. Jim

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Pizzas at Pelican Point

In addition to the Greek bread, about which I wrote yesterday, I made a couple of pizzas while visiting with family this week. I used the pizza dough formula in Hamelman's bread, but used Pivetti typo 00 flour from nybakers.com, made the dough with sourdough rather than commercial yeast, and did all the mixing by hand. 



Ham & Pineapple Pizza 



Chanterelle, Crimini, Leek, Olive, Mozzarella and Parmesan Pizza



Slice



Jonathan & Glenn watching Pizza TV


The chopped veggies were for the fab barbecued turkey gumbo brother Glenn made for dinner. The pizzas were just an appetizer.


David

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