The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

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greedybread's picture

Pane al Latte...

My yeasty mojo is back, I think!!

Should that be I hope?

pane al latte

What with Sundays cunning slipping in of the wholemeal and todays yummy little morsels....

 I have even started looking at the "Must try " list again...

Think its a definite!!

round or....

the beasty mojo is back!!!

baton shaped....

These little darlings are simply yummish!!

A little sweet but not overly, you could even eat them with salami or a fruity chutney...

or a lovely hard cheese...mmmm pecorino.......ARGH!!

Great for greedyboy lunches and fantastic for brekkie and mid morning snacks...

You could be very bad like me and toast them, butter and jam and then a big dollop of greek yoghurt...and a VERY hot strong black coffee

Any way I know you are going "hurry up, give us the recipe and stop blathering..................."


So you will need......

3 tsp dried yeast

1/4 cup of sugar

1/2 cup warm milk plus 1 cup milk for later

2 eggs

60g butter

Pinch of salt

4 cups of Strong bakers flour.

2 tbsps brandy or rum.

sponge for pane al latte

Combine the warm milk and sugar together, then add in the yeast and stir well.

Leave to stir until creamy and frothy- usually ten minutes.

Add in 1 cup of the flour and combine.

Cover and allow to stand for one hour.

Batons ready to rise...

Add to the spongey mix, the remaining cup of warmed milk, brandy or rum and the egg.

Mix well and then add in flour and the salt.

When combined, mix in the butter and mix until well combined.

Knead for 5-6 minutes .

It should be a nice elastic dough, a little sticky maybe:)

Risen, glazed and ready to bake!!

Place dough in lightly oiled bowl and cover and leave for 90 minutes.

hot from the oven...

Remove dough from bowl and place on lightly floured bench/board.

Chop dough into 16 pieces and roll/mould into the shapes you require.

I did half round and half baton like.

Place on baking tray with baking paper, allowing 9 per tray and enough space to rise.

Cover lightly with tea towel and allow to rise for one hour.

which one do I eat first?

Preheat the oven to 200 celsius.

Beat remaining egg and glaze the buns and place in the oven.

Bake for 20-25 minutes until golden.

Remove from oven and allow to cool.

Gorgeous hot from the oven......ENJOY, ENJOY, ENJOY!!!

Gorgeous texture..
Lovely crust too!! slightly buttery...

Creme fraiche or mascarpone with apricot conserve....

A big dollop of stewed rhubarb and cream...

Lovely wedge of cheese and picante salami...

Spread of Nutella....


Loveliness adapted from the wonderful Carol Field " The Italian Baker" 2nd ed 2011

neilc's picture

No knead rye: "flat" (pancake-like) loaf

The last few times I've made rye bread (using Jim Lahey's recipe for no knead rye from his book), I've been quite happy with the crust, crumb, and taste, but the shape hasn't been perfect: rather than a boule, the loaf came out wide, thin, and almost circular. The loaf is maybe 1.5-2 inches tall, versus 6 inches wide and 8 inches long.

Can anyone suggest what I'm doing wrong? When I place the dough into the dutch oven to be baked, I've just been scraping it out of the bowl with a spatula -- would it help to form the dough into a ball in my hands first, and then place the ball into the oven? Or is it more likely that the lack of height caused by something else? Right now I just let the second rise happen in a mixing bowl -- would it help to get a proper proofing basket/brotform/etc?

BTW, rough outline of my technique: 300g bread flour, 100g rye flour, 2g yeast, 300g water, 8g kosher salt. Mix and let rise overnight in a mixing bowl, then refrigerate for 3-4 days. Fold dough and place back in the mixing bowl, let it come to room temperature and do the second rise over 4-5 hours. Then bake in preheated 475F dutch oven for 30 mins covered, 15 mins uncovered.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions!


FlourChild's picture


This is my first go with Maggie Glezer's Pandoro (from Artisan Baking), and all things considered I'm quite pleased with it.  There are two amazing things about this bread.  The first is how something with that much sugar and butter can be so light and ethereal-  I'm stunned by the texture.  The second is the balance of flavors.  It doesn't come across as too eggy, it doesn't taste only of butter or vanilla, and it isn't obviously a sourdough.  But put them all together in just the right balance, and they add up to a beautiful, rounded, perfumed and complex flavor.  I was so very happy when this bread was baking, I don't think I've ever smelled something quite that good from my oven.

The dough largely followed the schedule in the book, with the exception that the first build took about 50% longer (6hrs vs 4) than it was supposed to, but I attribute that to my tendency to feed starters a little too early, so it needed a bit of time to catch up.  Once it did, the rest of the stages proceeded right on time.  I used my folding proofer set at 78F.

The only other issue I had was that my paddle attachment was just not capable of mixing this super-sticky yet strong dough.  I have a KA 600, and this dough only worked when I switched to the dough hook.  With the paddle, it just wrapped around and would not come off for anything, not with a spatula, not with high speeds.  I finally had to slice it off with a sharp knife.  

I used a large tube pan (16 cups capacity) instead of two eight cup pandoro molds, as I wanted to see how the bread was before buying more pans.  Looks like I'll be in the market for some star-shaped molds this season:)  

The final proof takes the dough up by more than quadruple, from the picture above to the one below.  Not bad for a naturally-leavened bread with just 0.2% yeast.

I don't want to post Maggie Glezer's recipe, but Artisan Baking is a lovely book to read or check out of the Library.  This bread was the reason I made a starter last year, and though it's taken me a while to collect all the ingredients (like cocoa butter, high-gluten flour and osmotolerant yeast), I'm glad I finally got around to making it.  

The top is prettier than the bottom, if I make it in the tube pan again I think I'll keep it right side up.

The ethereal crumb, so soft and light.  It even had a bit of shreddability.  Next time, I'll try a bit longer/slower mixing to see if I can get more shredding.

This would be the perfect seasonal viennoiserie for anyone who isn't crazy about the fruit in a panettone, or who appreciates light textures.  The bread has 17% of its flour pre-fermented, more  than 42% butter/cocoa butter, 0.2% osmotolerant yeast, 68% eggs/yolks, more than 41% sugar/honey, and hydration of 73% (taking into account the water content of eggs, honey, butter, etc.).  

Juergen Krauss's picture
Juergen Krauss

Berliner Landbrot - Got it now!


Got it right, at last!

Berliner Landbrot -

70% Dove's Farm light rye

30% Bacheldre Organic Stoneground Strong White Flour

During his apprenticeship the baker Tom Roetz investigated the behaviour of machine-prepared rye preferments vs hand-prepared rye preferments using  a standard "Berliner Landbrot" formula.

My version of "Berliner Landbrot" is adapted from his paper, which is available online:

I tried to bake this bread several times with mixed sucess. Now I managed to get it just right for my taste:

A fairly open crumb, combined with a dark, caramelised crust.

Here the formula:

Expected Yield1600 
Light/Medium Rye Flour (Type 1150)25232
Mature Starter (not in final dough)1093
Strong White (AP) Flour (Type 550)30278
Light/Medium Rye Flour (Type 1150)45417
Yeast (Instant)0.474.4


Mix the preferment and leave it for about 14 hours at 28C. It should have a pleasant smell and taste.

Mix the preferment with the rest of the ingredients, the dough is easy to handle as it ought to be onthe stiffer side.

Knead for about 5 minutes, the dough wil become a bit smoother.

Rest the dough for 30 minutes at 28C

Shape with wet hands.

Proof for another 45 minutes at 28C.

I used bannetons this time, but this can also be baked freestanding or in tins.

Bake in a very hot oven  (Roetz says 290C!) for 10 minutes, then at 200C for about 50 minutes (750g loaves).

Things to watch out for

Temperature: During the preparation of this dough I managed to keep the dough temperature constant on 28C. 

Shaping: I did it quite gently this time, just gently forming a smooth roll with very wet hands.

Baking: My oven was as hot as it can be, with a new 3cm stone, and about 2 hours preheating (I did another bake just before)

Roetz used in his studies two decks: one heated to 290C for the first 10 minutes of the bake, and another one at 200C to finish the bake. I think it is most important for this bread to behin the bake hot.

My challenge now: to get these results consistently.

Happy Baking,


sourdoughnut's picture

Bosch mixer question

Hi all, just blew through my 3rd Kitchen Aid artisan POS mixer in under 2 years, and the good folks at whirlpool have offered my $$$ back. Hobart is out of the budget (even old,used ones in ontario are in the $800 range), so was thinking about a Bosch based on the positive reviews from so many on this site. Here's the question; can it do anything else? I make bread, but my wife is more of a sweets baker. Noticed that a paddle is not part of the set up, so was wondering how it does with cakes, cookies, and other batter based things. Thanks in advance.

greedybread's picture

Scrummy Yummy Yeasty Karisik Pide:

putting this on here as its definetly a yeasty product:)

Not sure completely yet of the fresh loaf's definitions of what is and isn't allowed:)

Taken directly from my greedybread  blog... ENJOY!!


Karisik means mixed grill in Turkish, err I am lead to believe so I just hope it doesn’t actually mean something terrible:).

So delish, I have to show you straight away before making you wait till the end.

Now this one below is not the one i made today but one i made in Istanbul. All the other photos are from today 

Mmmmm Pide

My lamb mince filling was just so scrumptious, it was gorgeous. I suppose working in the garden all day and being VERY hungry helped but this truly was divine!! Not quite to the standard of my friend above BUT very very close.

So let’s get Yeasty beasty.

Just like to say , this is very similar to a pizza dough, so you could make pizza with it or calzone or even a Cornish pasty type thing. You also can make double to dough and freeze it. A friend rolls out the dough and freezes like that, all ready to go for next time. Great time saver:

Scrummy Karisik and Karsarli (cheese) Pide:

Makes 8 Pide.

For the Pide you need:

  • 3 cups of strong bread flour or all-purpose(if no strong).
  • 1/4 cup vegetable oil.
  • 1 egg beaten.
  • 1 cup milk warmed.
  • 2 tsp sugar.
  • 3 tsp dried yeast.
  • Pinch of salt.
  • 1 egg beaten for egg wash.

Pide dough ready to go into hot water cupboard (please note, this is double the recipe!!)

For the filling you need:

  • 350g lamb mince.
  • 3tsp garlic.
  • 2 chillies (medium heat)
  • 1 tsp sweet paprika.
  • 2 tsp cumin.
  • salt and pepper.
  • 1-2 cups of grated cheese (your choice but a strong cheese is best as you use less).
  • 2 tomatos diced.
  • 1 capsicum.
  • 1 red onion (but white is ok).
  • 4 slices bacon cut up or sausage cut up.

Mince filling

  • Warm milk and stir in sugar until dissolved and stir in yeast.
  • Cover and place in hot water cupboard until creamy ,usually 20 mins.
  • Place dry ingredients in a bowl and stir through.
  • Mix egg and oil together and stir into yeast mix when ready.
  • Slowly pour into dry ingredients and form a dough.
  • Turn out on (or do in bread maker on knead cycle).floured area and knead for 5-6 minutes until smooth and elasticy.
  • Place in lightly oiled bowl , cover with gladwrap (loosely) and a tea towel and place in warm place until doubled in size. Usually 60-90 minutes.

Meat Filling:

  • Place lamb mince in hot fry pan.
  • Cut up chilli, onion and garlic and place in with mince when 1/2 cooked.
  • Stir mince. Make sure you separate the mince so it’s not all clumpy.
  • You can drain off fat if you wish, if any but i have to say it adds to the over all taste.
  • Add in cumin and sweet paprika and stir lightly.
  • Add salt and pepper to taste.
  • While this is cooking, dice tomato and capsicum and place in a  little bowl and put to side.
  • Cut up bacon into small pieces.
  • When mince is cooked, leave to cool. DO NOT place on dough whilst hot/warm.

Dough risen and ready to chop!

  • Remove dough from warm place and turn dough out on floured area.
  • Cut dough into 8-9 pieces

Dough ready to roll out

  • Roll out to oval-shaped dough. Not too thin, but not too thick.

Ready to Fill!!

  • Place dough on tray with baking paper on it.
  • Pre heat oven to 220 Celsius.
  • Put lamb filling, tomatoes, bacon ,capsicum and cheese on the oval dough.
  • Roll the edges in so it resembles a boat (see below)
  • You can also do bacon and cheese fillings.
  • You can do what ever filling you like. A spicy beef or chilli chicken would be nice too  You are only limited by your imagination or what you think tastes great!!

Ready to cook , just needs egg wash

  • Give a brush of the edges with the egg wash.
  • Place in oven and bake 20-25 minutes or until golden brown and gorgeous!!

Scrummy Yummy!

More scrummyness………

Enjoy, enjoy and enjoy.

Some special treats coming up this week.

A NZ bread and a new fruit brioche i am testing ( a new recipe i made up) …..All looking very good so far….. and i think I am almost ready to use the sourdough starter that i have been brewing for a lovely Levain style bread.

Lots to do and look forward too……………..Mmmmmmm warm brioche…

Direct link to recipe

Thanks to i love lucca tours and and for the recipe which i adapted 

HenryV111's picture

historical bread flour composition

Hello everyone,

I am a new member on this forum, and what I have read so far encourages me greatly that you all seem to know a lot about bread-making.

The question I would like to post is whether anyone knows/recalls the composition of the flour that was milled by the "Turog" company (based I believe in Cardiff-sadly no longer in existence).

This flour was based around wholemeal flour, with added ingredients, such as caramel? and "germ-enriched wholemeal flour.

Turog was very prevalent in the Lancashire/Yorkshire areas during the 50s/60s, and the flavour of the bread made from this flour was in my opinion far superior to plain wholemeal bread.

As a child, and then a youth, unlike most of my contempories I much preferred turog to white bread even though the latter in those days tasted far better than just about any of the commercially produced bread of today, apart of course from the speciality breadmakers who still survive.

I have tried several sources up and down the country, including NAMIB, and archive sources without any success. My goal, is to try and reproduce the same mix as was used by turog to continue to enjoy its flavour.

PS, this is not another case of childhood memories leading one astray!, the taste has remained clearly in my memory.


dabrownman's picture

A Chacon for Eric

This chacon is a tribute to Eric Hanner.  His gifts to the world were many and his passion for balking was great.  His fine character attributes included his generosity that made him willing to help and teach others what he knew.  Eric’s legacies are many and this bake commemorates them.  He was a giant and this chacon is especially large to recognize his largess.

The white portion of the dough is a 6 strand zolablue SD Challah that we converted to a poolish from SD.  The 4 braided ends were not tucked in to give the chacon more of chance to crack making a pretty design on the top.


The dark portion is Eric’s Favorite SD Rye – his Jewish Deli Rye was used as a monster bialy to cover the braids of the challah in the bottom of the basket.  This is the largest bialy we have ever attempted and flipping it over was sight to be seen.


The 5 recipe changes I made to Eric's Favorite were minor ones.  First one was to use 95 g of the challah poolish in place of yeast in Eric’s dough.  We only had 2.5 g of caraway so I added a like amount of coriander.  We added 1 g each of red and white rye malts to improve enzymatic action, the rye flavor and color – while Eric wasn't looking.


My apprentice used caramelized onions and the water from it and the deglazed pan instead of re-hydrating minced onions as Eric recommended.  The flavor and color of caramelized onion should make this as exciting as Eric wrote about using onion and the water from it in this bread.  He wanted everyone to give this option a go!


I also didn’t have any first clear flour and have never seen any, so we tried to replicate it using David Snyder’s ideas on how to do so from another thread by using some WW mixed with AP and bread flour.  We don’t know what it should look like but David’s advice is usually spot on.  I don’t think Eric would have minded theses changes.


Method changes included using French slap and folds for both of the breads - for about 12 minutes.  Eric’s Favorite Rye was a two slaps and one fold process since the dough was so stiff and required the extra slap to stretch it out enough to fold over.  Eric was the one who got me doing French slap and folds and my breads have been greatly improved as a result.


2 sets of (4) S&Fs were also performed on 30 minute intervals for the first hour of development and then the dough was rested for an hour.  After shaping and putting the dough in the rice floured basket ,we let it proof for an hour before putting it into the fridge for a 15 hour retard.


This is not part of Eric’s method but we just ran out of time to bake it off and this was the best we could manage.  We fired up Old Betsy to preheat at 450 F with 2 of Sylvia’s steaming pans and a 12” iron skillet with lava rocks inside like David Snyder  sort of uses- while the dough warmed upon the counter for 40 minutes.  This is huge lump of dough, 3.8 pounds of it and it need lots of steam.


Once the dough went in and we threw a half a cup of water on the lava rocks as we shut the door and turned the temperature down to 370 F.  We decided to steam for 20 minutes instead of 10.  At the 10 minute mark the cracks had barely opened on the huge loaf and more steam was needed.


At the 20 minute mark, the steam was removed and the bread continued to bake at 370 F, convection this time, for an additional 26 minutes rotating it 70 degrees every 7 minutes until it registered 190 F in the center.  We left it on the stone for another 10 minutes with oven off and door ajar to crisp the skin before removing it to a cooling rack.


It browned up a dark mahogany color that was so nice I decided not to coat it with the corn starch and water mix.  Even the challah portion was the same color.  It blistered very well on the challah portion but not on the rye side for some reason?


It bloomed while cracking beautifully and at least looks the fitting tribute to Eric that we had hoped to achieve - at least on the outside.  Well, coundn't wait 24 hours to cut into it since showed promise and smelled tantalizing.  The crumb was soft nice and moist and medium open especially on the rye side. 


The taste would be straight Jekyll if there wasn't a Hyde Side.  One bite is a fine Jewish Rye with subtle caraway and coriander hints, the next a straight Shabot Challah and then comes a half and half combo bite.

Here are the formulas should you want to make a Chacon for Eric.  I sure enjoyed doing so and we learned much from this baking experience. It was great time to reflect, day dream a little and think about the past, present and future.

The sunset was very niuce the day we baked this bread.  I think someone really important knew a nice one for Eric was in order.

Poolish Challah






 Poolish or SD starter

Build 1


Active Dry Yeast



Bread Flour



AP Flour






Total Starter






Starter Totals






Poolish % of Total






Dough Flour



Bread Flour






Dough Flour









Dough Hydration






Total Flour






T. Dough Hydration






Total Wet Weight






Hydration w/ Adds






Add - Ins



Soy Oil



Eggs (2)










Eric’s Jewish Deli Rye – Eric’s Favorite Rye

Poolish SD starter

Build 1


Active Dry Yeast



Poolish AP flour



Poolish Water



Rye Sour Starter



Dark Rye






Total Starter






Starter Totals






Levain % of Total






Dough Flour



Bread Flour









Dough Flour






C. Onion Water 242 & Water



Dough Hydration






Total Flour



C. Onion Water 242 & Water



T. Dough Hydration






Total Wet Weight






Whole Grains






Hydration w/ Adds






Add - Ins



Red Multi-grain Malt



White Multi-grain Malt



Caraway & Coriander Seeds









2 Tbs of Caramelized Onion






k9dancer's picture

Bohemian from AR

As I was researching mixers I came across this most informative forum.  I do like making bread, and my aspiration is to be half as good as my old maternal relatives who made the most wonderful breads, pastries and kolaches with nary a measuring instrument in sight.  I weigh and measure, and turn out acceptable breads, but nowhere near as good as those wonderful old aunties in the fifties.   I've got lots to learn!

Song Of The Baker's picture
Song Of The Baker

Tutorials Needed on Shaping Rye Breads

I will be attempting my first rye bread tomorrow.  I have searched the internet, trying to find some video tutorials on making rye breads and found very little out there compared to sourdoughs, etc.  Tuorials helped me a great deal when trying sourdough, multi-grains, ciabatta breads for the first time.

Does anyone have any photos, videos that can help me in the shaping process of this particular type of rye bread?  Below is the recipe to give an idea of how wet/dry the dough I will be working with:

German Mischbrot (Mixedbread)

Here the recipe : Mischbrot 30/70 (30%Rye / 70% Wheat/Bread flour) . 2 loaves 860g. Color of the bread will be brighter if you will use medium rye or darker if use dark rye flour.

Sourdough: ripen for 14-18 h at 21°c/70°F

Medium Rye or Dark rye(better medium)......  160g (100%)

Water...... 128g (80%)

Rye Starter (100%)....... 8g (5%) If you like more sour taste use 10% starter (16g)

Total weight ...... 296g


Final dough:

Bread flour...... 700g

Medium rye(or Dark rye)...... 140g

Salt....... 21g

Fresh yeast....... 22g

Water....... 540g

Sourdough....... 296g