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florians's picture
florians

The rise and fall of my croissants

TLDR; I might be missing out on trying the most obvious thing: a different flour. Essentially looking for hints how to get back to the honeycomb of batch #5. :)

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I’m looking for some advice on my latest baking endeavour: Croissants.

I’m getting better at folding and shaping and also figured out my preferred way of egg washing. They taste great but tend to flatten in the oven or even while proofing.

I’m trying not to vary heavily with the recipe as I’ve had good results with it already (#5). I’ve checked many recipes and more or less they all end up in a similar range.

The only thing I haven’t tried is to add eggs to the dough (also I don’t really want to try it).

Ingredients

  • Hydration between 50–56%. Milk + Water. 8% butter.

  • White flour (~ T45, unknown protein…), Half White Flour (~ T65, 12g protein), Spelt Flour

  • 82% butter fat

  • 3.9% milk fat

Handling variance

  • 0–2 hours bench proof / bulk ferment

  • 16 hour cold ferment in the fridge

  • French lock-in, double fold, single fold

  • Size range from 10x20 cm to 8x28 cm

Proofing

  • [1, 2, 3] started at room temperature (22 °C), rolled rather thick, nice layer separation

  • [4, 5, 6] in the oven with lights on (25–30 °C, too warm I know but didn’t hurt the honey comb interestingly), still thick and puffy

  • [7, 8, 9] in the oven with water bowl, 75–85% moisture @ 25–28 °C (I think this is too moist), flat, layers merge into flat layers, no build up, … I blame the humidity while proofing. Or...?

Baking

#1 – #6 baking at 200° convection and turned the tray after 6 minutes because of uneven colouring in the back of the oven (where the heat comes out). Baking 17min total.

After #6 I’ve started baking at the recommended rack of my convection oven. I think that since then the flattening after 10 minutes got worse but it may also have to do with other factors.

10 x Proofing, Shape, Crumb

  1. First attempt, I had no idea what I was doing, 350g butter. Forgot final proofing. All white flour.

  2. A bit dense, but not so bad, still rolled out too thick. 300g butter. All white flour.

  3. Bread-like crumb. 300g butter. All white flour.

  4. A hint of honeycomb. 300g butter. All white flour + 10% spelt. 30 minute poolish.

  5. Honeycomb! At least with a dough that had no butter in it. Only time the vertical expansion was good. 300g butter. All white flour + 10% spelt. Super warm proof (> 30° with butter leaks) 30 minute poolish.

  6. Not so bad either, but a bit more flat. 300g butter. All white flour + 10% spelt.

  7. Used a 16h poolish, no added yeast to main dough, didn’t get puffy while proofing, proofed for 7h, fell completely flat. 250g butter. All white flour + 10% spelt. Too much humidity while proofing? (75–85%)

  8. Used a 16h poolish, forgot to add yeast to main dough, didn’t get puffy while proofing, proofed for 7h, fell completely flat. 280g butter. 50% white flour + 50% half-white flour (T65)

  9. Getting better, but still rather flat and rather thick layers of crust (almost fried?). 280g butter. 45% white flour + 45% half-white flour (T65) + 10% spelt

 

r/Breadit - Croissant Analysis

Proofing

r/Breadit - Croissant Analysis

Shape

 

r/Breadit - Croissant Analysis

Crumb

I haven’t tried many different flours.

The one I’m using is the best quality organic flour but it of course might be that it is too weak. Unfortunately there is no info on the protein… which seems to be so important…

It seems like an obvious potential issue and is going to be the next thing that I will try to vary.

If someone could confirm from the photos that it might be a flour issue that would be interesting :D

But I also think I might have been over proofing (7, 8) or have an issue with baking?

 

Also, I’m trying to do "7 segments", thus trying to cut longer triangles. I have a feeling this hinders expansion or needs more proofing time? But then again, I feel like over proofing?

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

First bake of 2021 - Maggie Glezer's Challah

Maggie Glezer's book, "A Blessing of Bread," is a wonderful collection of Jewish baking from around the world along with a sort of ethnography of baking in the Jewish communities of the Diaspora. This book has, by my count, about 40 recipes for challah, the bread particularly associated with the Jewish sabbath. But the author also identifies the challah recipe she makes for her own family. As with most of her recipes, she provides both a commercially yeasted and a sourdough version (without saying which her family prefers).

I have made the sourdough version several times over the years. I like it quite a bit but my wife. doesn't. Today I finally got around to baking the non-sourdough version. You know what? It is the best challah I have ever tasted, and my wife loved it too. I should not be (and am not) surprised, if the author of the book with 40 challah recipes has chosen this one as her favorite, one might expect it to be something special.

This is clearly an enriched bread with quite a lot of vegetable oil, egg and honey, but it is not rich like brioche nor even as sweet as a traditional Vienna dough. It is perfectly "balanced." I had some for dinner without any accompaniment other than a bowl of chicken soup. I could have eaten both loaves right then (but didn't). Tomorrow, it's going to be French Toast for breakfast!

Addendum: DanAyo found that Maggie Glezer had shared this recipe on Epicurious in 2004. Here is the link: https://www.epicurious.com/recipes/food/views/my-challah-235867

Note: Glezer hand kneads this bread. I mixed in a stand mixer, once the flour was added to the wet ingredients. I mixed about 3 minutes on Speed 1 and 4 minutes on Speed 2.

Addendum: It did make delicious French Toast.

David

alcophile's picture
alcophile

Source for Triticale Flour

I am looking for a source for whole grain triticale flour. I remember using some a long time ago but recently I have not been able to find any online. I have seen triticale included in mixed grain hot cereals like Bob's Red Mill.

Is there a reason the flour is not available? I can find sources for all the other wheats (einkorn, emmer, etc.) but not triticale.

Thanks.

Anonymous baker's picture
Anonymous baker (not verified)

1st 2021 bake Hamelman's 5 grain levain

Hamelman's Five-Grain Levain is always a winner in my book. A perfect recipe to get 2021 off to a good [baking] start. A few tweaks to make do with ingredients I had in stock. Substituted the whole-wheat for wholegrain kamut. Instead of cracked rye I used pearled spelt cracked in my coffee grinder. And finally pumpkin seeds replaced the sunflower seeds.

 

FIVE-GRAIN LEVAIN

 

Liquid Levain : 12-16 hours

 

Soaker : 12-16 hours

 

  • Mix all the ingredients together and knead till medium gluten formation.
  • Bulk Ferment for 2 hours giving the dough one set of stretch and folds after 1 hour. 
  • Shape into a Pullman loaf pan and refrigerate for several hours. 
  • Bake.

Crumb typical of a sandwich pullman loaf, has wonderful flavour and the seeds shine through especially the pumpkin seeds. Very happy with this bake. 

texasbakerdad's picture
texasbakerdad

Broccoli Cheddar Bread Bowls Galore!

I have been trying to make good broccoli cheddar soup for years. I was always disappointed with the results. FINALLY, the stars aligned and I had both an excellent broccoli cheddar soup AND great tasting and great looking bread bowls to boot.

Bread Bowl Ingredients

  • 100g spelt
  • 300g white whole wheat
  • 1000g AP flour
  • 100g starter fed the night before (50:50 hard red)
  • 180g starter from the fridge (1 to 3 days old) (50:50 hard red)
  • 35g salt
  • 85g extra virgin olive oil
  • 85g honey
  • 1150g water (82% hydration not including starter)

Notes:

  • I needed the bowls done in time for dinner, so the extra starter and honey was intended to speed up my rise. Worked out great, bulk started at 8:54a and I loaded the loaves into the oven at 2:25p.
  • I really love the smell of spelt, at least I think that is the spelt I smell, a buttery smell.
  • Used AP flour because I didn't have any bread flour.
  • I poured the honey right on top of the flour mixture. This caused some problems. Next time I need pour the water in first and then add the honey, just to keep the honey from turning into little honey/flour balls that don't want to incorporate into the rest of the dough.

Process:

  • 8:30a: Mix all ingredients except for starter into shaggy mess, let sit for 15 minutes
  • 8:45a: Smear starter on top of shaggy mess and then knead until all ingredients evenly combined. About 5 minutes of working by hand.
  • 8:54a: Transfer dough into proofing container and cover, also transferred 20g to an aliquot jar.
  • 9:48a, 10:45a, 11:49a, 12:53a: Stretch and fold in bulk proofing container.
  • 1:00a: Pour dough onto counter, split into 10 loaves and preshape, then wait 15 minutes.
  • 1:10a: Preheat both ovens to 425dF (non-convection)
  • 1:15a: Prepare two cookie sheets with parchment. Shape each loaf into a buole. Let proof for 1 hour.
  • 2:15a: Score loaves and load into oven. Put 5 into each oven, spread as far apart as possible on the cookie sheets. Baked for 22-28 minutes (I think I baked mine for 25)
  • 2:40a: Set on rack to cool for at least 1 hour.
  • Dinner Time: Using sharp knife carve out bowls.

Notes:

  • Everyone agreed the bread bowls tasted fantastic. They were the right shape and size too. I wasn't as gentle as I should have been when carving out the bowls, but that is ok, because even though on 2 of the bowls I tore the side a bit, the thickness of the soup quickly patched the tear with a beautiful cheesy ooze.
  • My wife and I were in agreement that a slightly chewier crust and a more tart flavor would have been even better. I will try to make changes to improve on those things next time.
  • I am getting better shaping boules. This was the second time I felt like I got the boule nice and tight during shaping. But, I should have put more effort into pulling the dough towards me after stitching it, that way the seams from the stitching would disappear under the loaf. I'll try to do better next time.

Broccoli Cheddar Soup:

I started with the following recipe but made a few changes. I chose this recipe because I liked the recipe ingredients and process compared to other recipes.

https://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/food-network-kitchen/almost-famous-broccoli-cheddar-soup-recipe-1972744

Changes to Recipe:

  • I did not use a blender at all. This worked out perfectly, in the past I had made similar recipes and blending even a portion of the soup gave the soup a baby food texture. Since the soup already had a roux and creamy cheese, blending was totally unnecessary.
  • For 1/3 of the cheese I used gruyere instead of sharp cheddar.
  • I took 1/2 of the carrots and cooked them with the onions. In the original recipe, all of the carrots were added with the broccoli.
  • I had 3 cloves of garlic to the onion/carrot mixture that was part of the roux.
  • The broccoli was cut into quarter size pieces, smaller than bite size, but not too small.

Notes:

  • I would have added diced celery to the roux, but I didn't have any. Outside of that one change, I don't think I would change anything. The soup was excellent. Heck, I don't know if the celery would have improved anything, but I just like celery in my roux.

Sorry for the already eaten dirty spoon photo, but I was hungry.

 

We had 9 mouths to feed and 10 bowls. So I took the smallest bowl and practiced cutting it and got to look at the crumb.

pul's picture
pul

Yeast water small Roggenmischbrote

I tried to mimic Abel's Roggenmischbrot which looks quite pretty.

I like to add rye flour to the mix because of the flavor it imparts to bread. Typically, I add around 10% rye but in this version the rye content is higher. This bake has been based on 50% AP flour, 50% rye flour, 2% salt and 78% hydration, leavened with yeast water. I autolysed the dough for about one hour, but then I actually forgot about it, and ended up applying only one set of S&F after the mix. Since I started the process too late, I had to put the dough in the fridge to complete the bulk fermentation. The next day I shaped the small loaves and proofed for about 45 minutes before baking at 250C for about 15 min and then 230C until finished for another 15 min. It yielded two small loaves since the total flour used was only 260 g.

The loaves were baked seam side up to give a rustic look. Great taste and an unbelievable crispy crust. The next time, I will use less fermented flour in the levain, which was 23% for this bake.

 Happy New Year!

alcophile's picture
alcophile

Flying Crust Causes?

The image is from a loaf using Peter Reinhart's WGB 100% Whole Wheat Sandwich Bread recipe. This was my first time using the recipe and I am fairly new to baking 100% whole grain breads. The recipe was followed as written except that the salt content was modified to use 4.3 g of salt and 2.7 g of Lite Salt blend instead of 9 g of salt.

I thought the loaf had good crumb and flavor, but wondered about the cause of the flying crust. I suspect it was due to poor shaping as I saw the bubble forming during final proof. Could I have popped the bubble to prevent the crust separation? Any other suggestions will be appreciated.

Thanks!

HungryShots's picture
HungryShots

Romanian Sourdough Sweet Bread (Cozonac cu maia)

I do this sweet bread every year but it is just this winter that I tried the sourdough version. As always, once I try sourdough, I do not come back to yeast. It will be the case for this bread as well. It is true that it takes time to make it but it worth every minute of it. 

I do this bread called "Cozonac" only for Christmas and Easter. Sweet bread is not my highest preference, but this one is a tradition that I know since childhood. I am continuing this tradition, especially for my kids, although I am now living in another country. The smell spread in the house when this cake is prepared for Christmas and Easter resides deep in my memories.

This is a sweet bread linked to traditions, memories, aroma and holidays. It is a treat to share with family and friends in joyful moments. It is also a delicious breakfast or dessert.

 

Ingredients:

Preferment:

 300g stiff sourdough (50% hydration) 

 

Ingredients for dough:

  • 300ml of milk
  • 15g salt
  • 125g soft butter
  • 4 eggs (~230g eggs)
  • 825g strong bread flour
  • 100g sugar
  • 1 heap tablespoon of lemon zest
  • the above preferment


Ingredients for filling:

  • 2 egg whites (reserve the yolks for brushing)
  • 2 tablespoons of sugar
  • 1 tablespoon cocoa powder
  • 300g Turkish delight
  • 200g raisins
  • 200g ground walnuts

 

Directions and more details on my blog at: http://www.hungryshots.com/2020/12/romanian-sourdough-sweet-bread-cozonac.html 

boopacabra's picture
boopacabra

What might cause baguettes to look dull and white-ish?

I just made a batch of baguettes, and they seem fine (crispy, fine shape/rise, etc), except for the color is really dull and there's almost a white-ish film (see picture), instead of them being golden brown. Any idea why this could be?

Some details:

  • I used the King Arthur recipe with King Arthur AP Flour.
  • As per the recipe, I steamed the baguettes with hot water at the beginning of the bake.
  • I used a floured couche, but didn't use extra flour for any of the other steps. I covered them with plastic wrap on the couche so the flour should've only touched the bottom of the baguettes, maybe the sides a bit, but not really the top.
  • I baked them at 450F for a full 29-30 minutes and they seem crusty and fully baked, so I don't think it's about them being underbaked.

Perhaps it's about steaming? However, reading similar posts, I've seen some comments about under-steaming, and some comments about over-steaming, which makes me a bit confused which direction might be right.

Thanks for any pointers!

texasbakerdad's picture
texasbakerdad

How to intentionally get chewy crust?

I am tasked with baking sourdough bread bowls for dinner tonight. The dough is already in bulk and here are the ingredients:

  • 280g sourdough starter
  • 100g spelt
  • 300g whole white wheat
  • 1000g AP flour
  • 35g salt
  • 85g oil
  • 85g honey
  • 1150g water

Most posts on tfl ask how to NOT get chewy crust. But, I want the crust chewy. Although, I'm not sure how to achieve chewy crust on purpose.. Any advice is appreciated.

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