The Fresh Loaf

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katyajini's picture

KA for kneading at higher than #2?

Hi everyone!

I just have a new KA proline 7 qt mixer.  I posted this question elsewhere but I am reposting here as a separate question.

its a great mixer, its quiet, moves through batters and cookie doughs very easily. .

However I really bought it for kneading bread dough and I can see that it is not the 'pro' or as 'powerful' it is touted to be.  There are explicit warnings not to use it higher than speed #2 yet I can see it going nowhere to a finished correctly kneaded dough at #2 even with  5-6 cups of flour. or maybe it would have taken 20-25mins?  I didn't try that long.  Rose Levy Beranbaum openly instructs in many of bread recipes to use a KA at #4 and even #6 for both paddle and dough hook for extended periods of time until the dough comes together.  Well, why would she do that?  I tried #4.  At speed #4 there is a constant clicking, clacking sound.  Its not the motor but some part hitting against another part at the higher speed.  And it does begin to heat up after 10-12 mins of kneading. If it does this while brand new it is going to wear out sooner rather than later if I use it regularly for kneading (which I want to do!) I don't think I have a lemon.  I think the mixer works very well but its not as powerful as I was led to believe.  And upon reading the reviews more closely many people have heard the clicking which gives them pause. I think it will be inadequate for kneading whole wheat, whole grain doughs or big batches of dough. I think there are ways to work around these limitations in power, more autolysing, stopping the kneading periodically and resuming after 5-10mins of resting both machine and dough.  But I don't want to, I just wanted a simple strong mixer for when I just wanted to get some kneading done quickly!  Maybe my expectations are inappropriate for this type of mixer?

Just a question: do you all never use it above #2 for kneading? and still get proper kneading?  On this forum, as an example, other than RLB, people are making Jason's ciabatta at highest speed?

I welcome any feedback please.

 Thank you so much for patiently reading about my discomfort with my new and fancy toy.  I did really want to love and live with it forever, but I don't know now.


Tim Greening-Jackson's picture
Tim Greening-Jackson

Greetings from Manchester UK

Hi there. My earlier attempt at an introductory post didn't work, so here's my second attempt...

I've recently started baking bread, which at times seems almost like alchemy. I'm keeping my attempts simple for the time being and am grateful for any advice anyone can give me about a whole lot of things. I have a relatively small kitchen (I live in a city centre apartment) and at the moment am confining my efforts to white loaves and buns.

When I have more understanding and experience I'd like to branch out in to more exotic things like Focacica and ultimately start making sourdough. But for the time being I'm keeping things simple.

As I type this there is a loaf baking in the oven to go with some chicken soup I am also making for supper. So I'd better sign off and see how it's going.



Plantaholic12's picture

What size should sandwich bread be?

No, not how wide is a pickle, but how wide should bread be? The humorous responses should be easy enough: wide enough to wipe your face, wide enough to hide the peanut butter, etc, etc.

I pose this question as I have been struggling with my conversion from a Kitchen Aid Pro 600 with stripped gears ( I confess, I make whole wheat bread, two loaves every two weeks, for breakfast toast, and in 80 weeks I killed my worm follower gear ) to a Bosch Universal Plus mixer.

My trials are detailed in another section of this forum, I believe I'm close to adapting.

But this question keeps popping up: how big should a slice of sandwich bread be? I want toast, whole wheat, two slices everyday with my eggs and potatoes. Most any size will do, but I want the American slice, the one that fits the toaster without trimming but sticks up tall enough that I don't burn myself.

I went to the current "source of all knowledge", google, went to the images and found the one attached to this post. There was also a photo of Billy Cystal with a head ache...why??

But there was no American Standard Measurement for a slice of sandwich bread. Like 4 1/4 by 5 3/4 by3/8 inches. Just like that.

Maybe I should start getting my compost tea brewer ready for spring. Maybe this baking avocation is too much. Maybe I'm over yeasted.

Can any one guide me to a standard loaf size, 9 x 5 x??



mattprince's picture

What size tin for straight bread?



What size bread tin do you use to get it a nice straight shape? Im using a 2lb tin and the shape is coming out like a mushroom.



metropical's picture

100% hydration conversion to 60%?

I have a 100% (mostly) AP hydration starter that I'd like to take a bit and use for a 60% ciabatta recipe.

Is that possible or do I need to start anew?

mattprince's picture

Funny Shape


Ive made a few loaves now (all just normal white) and use a bread tin. I made a big effort to kneed better and for 10 mins today and the loaf has definitely improved. One thing i can't seem to find an answer to is why my loaves are turning out a funny shape (see above)?



BetsyMePoocho's picture

Water Variations

Hey Folks,

I'm looking for advise, comments, or pros/cons of using bottled mineral/sparkling water, not tonic or club soda, in my dough mix........

I think that I read some years ago that using it had some value (?).

I used it in the baguettes pictured, but would still like some of your thoughts..........

Thanks mucho......



Magsmuffin's picture

Hello all !

Hello all at The Fresh Loaf.

I've been flicking through the pages and have to say, I'm absolutely impressed with the site. It has everything I've been looking for but up until now, not been able to find.

I love baking but, up until reading one of Dan Lepard's books, I didn't have the courage to venture into the scary task of baking bread. After a year of lots of frustrating failures, I'm starting to produce some simple loaves (good enough to at least impress my family). Hopefully, with your help, I might one day be able to improve enough to tackle the more complicated stuff. However, until then there's an awful lot I need to learn.

Looking forward to getting to know everyone and reading all your tips and advice.



dmsnyder's picture

New Years Pizze

My wife and I had a quiet New Years day. Very mellow, except for dinner. My wife gets pretty excited when I make pizza.

I again used Ken Forkish's formula for a sourdough pizza crust. After my successful experience fermenting my SFSD dough in my proofing box (San Francisco-style Sourdough and dishes made with it), I did the same with the pizza dough. The result was pretty much the same as I had had last Summer with this dough (Pizza Bliss), which is to say it was delicious - very flavorful with a mild to moderate sourdough tang. The rim was puffed up and very crisp. Really good eating.

I made two mushroom pizza. One had olive oil, finely chopped fresh rosemary, sliced garlic and mozzarella. The other had olive oil, tomato sauce (from Floyd's Pizza Primer) and mozzarella. 

Wishing you all Happy Baking and a delicious 2014!



CeciC's picture

Hamelman's 5 Grains Bread with RYW and Commercial Yeast

Hybrid YW Five-Grain Bread        
Total Weight884.5      
Weight per Serving884.5      
Total Flour 500     
Total Water 429     
Total Hydration 85.80%     
Multi-grain % 33.80%     
Total Levain 270     
 Build 1Build 2Build 3SoakerFinal DoughAdd-InTotal
White Starter (100%)      0
Wholewheat Starter      0
Rye Starter      0
Yeast Water Levain (100%)60     60
 60     60
Flour      0
Extra-High Protein Flour (>14%)      0
Bread Flour 30  271 301
AP Flour      0
Wholemeal Flour      0
Wholewheat Flour 90  79 169
Rye Flour    0 0
Water 45 189120 354
Milk      0
Yeast Water 45    45
Others      0
Yeast    2.5 2.5
Salt    13 13
Cinnamon (2 Tbs)      0
ADD-IN      0
Chopped Wheat berries    35  0
Flaxseeds   35  0
Sunflower Seeds   40  0
Oats   40  0
- Autolyse all ingridient (except Salt & Yeast)60 Min      
- Add Salt, yeast  Mixed with Pincer Method       
- S&F 2 times @ 30, 60min interval       
- Total Bulk Fermentation @ 66F3h 30mNeed more as the crust was on the pale side     
Second Proof1.5HR      
Bake - Cover20      
Bake -Uncover25      

I got Hamelman's book as my christmas present I decided to use its 5 grains bread as my New Year Bake. I deviated from the book by

1) sub YW levain with Pete Fermente

2) pre-ferments hydration increased to 75%. 

3) Increase Water to compensate my substitution of WW for Bread flour to increase its multi-grains content. 

Since the room temp has dropped to 66F, I extended the Bulk fermentation to 3:30, but I think its still hasnt fully fermented. Next time I would have give it another hour. 

I baked it in a dutch oven covered 20min and uncovered for 25mins. 





The dough was on the stiff side, Next time another 100g of water should be added. 

Crumb shot:



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