The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

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winestem's picture

Tartine bread baking attempts

Help, help, help, help! I'm ready to throw in the tea-towel! I've got a wonderful smelling and behaving wild yeast culture going and I've followed the procedures in Chad Robertson's Tartine Bread to what I think is a perfect "T". The problem is that I'm getting almost no rise from the dough once it goes into the oven. I do the autolyse for 45 minutes, I get a magnificent smooth and silky fermentation, but in the end, I get dense, good-tasting, but too dense loaves! Any suggestions as to what I can try and/or am doing wrong?

JoeVa's picture

Macina, giusto un pò

Un aggiornamento sull'ultimo mese. Dopo il fantastico paesano che potete vedere nel precedente post "Working for Favaglie Bread Baking" ho avuto un paio di settimane senza pane, o meglio di pane ne ho fatto ma è andato direttamente alle galline!

Last month update. After the great country bread you can see in the previous post "Working for Favaglie Bread Baking" I had a couple of weeks without bread, I mean I baked but the bread went directly to the hens!

Il processo è stato totalmente fuori controllo per ben due fine settimana, pane di gomma, veramente pessimo, ma alla fine ho capito cosa non andava ed è ritornato il mio pane, addirittura migliore di prima!

The process was totally out of control for two weekends, gummy bread, so bad, but I finally figured out what was wrong and my lovely bread is still here, even better than before!

Il freddo ed il nuovo lotto di farina sono arrivati in contemporanea ed hanno creato non pochi problemi. E' incredibile quanto la prima lievitazione sia sensibile alla temperatura, anche solo pochi gradi possono fare la differenza.

The cold weather and the new batch of flour arrived at the same time and they got me many problems. It's amazing how the bulk rise is temperature sensitive, even a few degrees can make the difference.

Ho dato la colpa a tutto, dal mugnaio (scusa Fulvio) al lievito ... ma la colpa era soltanto mia, mia e basta!

I blamed everything and everyone from the miller (sorry Fulvio) to the levain ... but the fault was mine!

Ieri ho riproposto il paesano con alcune variazioni, giusto per vedere cosa sarebbe cambiato. Ho provato ad esaltare al massimo l'aroma del frumento. Per fare ciò ho usato un solo lievito naturale liquido su farina bianca (perché più neutro e meno invadente), niente segale, ed ho sostituito un pò dell'ottima base di Buratto (tipo 1) con della Macina (tipo integrale).

Yesterday, I proposed again my country bread with some variations. I tried to bring out the best flavor of the wheat. To do this I used a single liquid levain feed on white bread flour (because it is more neutral and less intrusive), no rye, and I replaced some of the excellent base of Buratto (type 1, T80) with some Macina (whole).

La farina "Macina" (Mulino Marino) è il massimo per chi adora il frumento, è potente ed intensa, niente a che vedere con le altre farine integrali. E' un'integrale scura, non chiara, credo per la presenza nella miscela di grani di varietà caratterizzati da cariosside ambrata scura o rossa.

Macina flour (Mulino Marino) is the best for those who like wheat, it's powerful and intense, nothing to share with the other whole wheat flours. It's a dark whole flour, not clear or whitish, I think because of the presence in the mixture of grains characterized by a variety of caryopsis with dark amber or red color.


In sintesi:

  • 15% Manitoba (usata nel lievito liquido) + 25% Macina + 60% Buratto
  • Idratazione 77% (un paio di punti più alta, per compensare il W del nuovo lotto di farina)
  • Temperatura impasto e prima lievitazione 27-28°C
  • Autolisi di 50 minuti (per compensare il P/L un pò più alto del nuovo lotto di farina)
  • Impasto molto breve
Main points:
  • 15% white brea flour (used to feed the liquid levain) + 25% Macina + 60% Buratto
  • 77% hydration (a couple of point upper, to adjust the W of the new batch of flour)
  • Desired Dough and bulk temperature 27-28°C
  • Autolyse 50 minutes (to adjust the higher P/L of the new batch)
  • Very short mix

Inoltre ho migliorato decisamente tutto il processo di lavorazione, la filosofia vincente: fare meno è fare di più.Ho ulteriormente ridotto i tempi di impastamento e migliorato la tecnica di piegatura, nonchè di formatura. Praticamente faccio tutto in ciotola, compresa la formatura, non sporco niente ed il pane è fantastico.

Moreover I improved the overall baking process, the winner philosophy is: less is more. I have further reduced the mixing time and improved the technique of folding, as well as shaping. Basically I do everything in the bowl, even the shaping, all is clean and the bread is fantastic.


Non trovo le parole per descrivere quanto sia soffice, leggera, liscia, setosa ed umida la mollica di questi pani. Quando metti la pagnotta in verticale sul tavolo ed il coltello la taglia per metà, rompe il primo strato di crosta e poi affonda nella morbidissima parte centrale tagliandone la mollica. Senza presunzione, ma non ho mai trovato un prodotto di questa tipologia nei panifici qui in Italia, neanche dai migliori amici panettieri il cui pane è certamente buono ma nettamente diverso.

I cannot find the words to describe how soft, light, smooth, silky and moist is the crumb of these breads. When you put the loaf vertically on the table and the knife cuts to the middle, breaks the first layer of crust and then sinks into the soft middle part cutting the crumb. Without being presumptuous I never found this type of product in the Italian bakeries, not even from the best professional bakers friends whose bread is certainly good but clearly different.


E questa volta una foto del fondo, dopo che il pane si è raffreddato cantando.

And this time I have a shot of the bottom, after the bread cool down singing.


Inoltre, in questi giorni ho avuto modo di leggere "Tartine Bread" di Chad Robertson. Davvero una bella storia! Inoltre ho trovato veramente incredibili quanti punti in comune ci sono tra la mia lavorazione e quella di Chad, dalla scelta delle farina al "lievito giovane", dall'impastamento breve alle caratteristiche desiderate nel prodotto finito. Davvero un bel libro.

Moreover, these days I red "Tartine Bread" by Chad Robertson. Truly a wonderful story! I also found it really amazing how many similarities there are between my work and that of Chad, the choice of flour to the usage of what he define a "young levain", from the short mixing to the desired characteristics in the finished product. A really nice book.

saltandserenity's picture

Day 5: Double Chocolate peanut Butter Bark

On the 5th day of holiday baking my true love ran to the store to get me another 2 kg jar of crunchy peanut butter for this creation.  A no bake confection that will bring out your inner artist!

peanut butter bark

turosdolci's picture

Panettone Bread Pudding

Leftover Panettone makes a flavorful bread pudding.  A warm dessert for Christmas or New Years Eve.

alabubba's picture

A present for my friends here on TFL (not bread)

I love KFC's slaw, I have found that people either love it or think its too sweet. For me its milky creamy sweetness mixed with the cabbage crunch is about as addictive as crack. It is my all time favorite slaw. I searched a long time for an "Copy Cat" recipe until I found this post online.

"I worked for KFC for many years and I made cole slaw several times a week. This recipe was invented by Sanders himself. We made 25 pounds at a time and the recipe was equal amounts of Miracle Whip and sugar and 1/4 the amount of oil and vinegar. But here it is in a table serving amount

1 head of cabbage, shredded

1 or two carrots
1/4 onion


1 cup Miracle Whip Salad Dressing
1 cup sugar (yep, I cup)
1/4 cup oil
1/4 cup vinegar

Mix together and pour over cabbage mix. Let it sit for a few hours before eating and I guarantee it is the exact same as KFC."

I have made this recipe dozens of times and it IS the KFC recipe. I know it looks all wrong, "A cup of sugar!!! argh! trust me. Make it and you will become a believer.

I offer this to the members of TFL as my gift to you.

Happy Holidays from me.


jeric's picture

Hi from California

I have never made bread before with out using the pre made frozen dough you can buy at the grocery store.  However I do make pizza dough all of the time!  And it turns out fantastic.  I did that by hand.  So now I have finally gotten a kitchen aid stand mixer which I have wanted for I don't know how long, and I am trying to make bread.  It seems like my dough is coming out drier then my pizza dough did.  The only thing that I can really think of being different is that I put 2 tsp of olive oil in the mix.  Any one got any suggestions.  I really love making the pizza dough, and I thought I would try my hand at bread.  I just love the whole process of creating great food!



saltandserenity's picture

White Chocolate Macadamia Nut Cookies

On the third day of holiday baking, I present you with white chocolate macadamia nut cookies.  This is an unusual recipe in that the butter and brown sugar are creamed together and the white sugar is added later with the dry ingredients.  It's how I learned to make these but I don't know why.  They are crispy at the edges and chewy in the middle! 


clazar123's picture

Pannetone in a can

I've learned a lot from both this forum and from baking lots of bread. One of the lessons I learned early on is that specialty pans are expensive and that 99% of the time there is an alternative in the cupboard already. So-not having a pannetone pan and not planning well enough ahead to order the papers for holiday baking was not too much of a barrier. I decided what size loaf I wanted to bake, went to my cupboard and found some adequately sized cans-YES cans!

These are individual sized pannetones- turns out the water chestnut can and the mandarin orange can were the perfect size for my project. I also decided that since the dough was so sticky, I should have a release paper liner with parchment paper. I tried exactly one time to form-fit a pannetone paper that would sleekly hug the can and have a disc of paper on the bottom so the bottom wouldn't stick. I used all my scissor skills learned in kindergarten. What a job that was! No way I'm doing that 10 or more times! What I ended up doing is taking a square of parchment paper,centering it over the top of the can and using the next size smaller can as a plunger and carefully plunging it into the receiving can-taking care to flatten all the folds (and not tear it) in my version of a tulip paper. (more like a chrysanthemum paper). I sprayed the inside with pan release and I was good to go!

I filled them 3/4 of the way since this dough was not going to rise much-it had risen for about 24 hours and I projected at least a 5 hour rise in the can-it turned into a 9 hour rise,even in a warm,moist environment. I didn't take a pic of that but here is the crumb.

This was from floydm's Pannetone recipe on the homepage picture. It is quite delicious but more fruit bread than bread with fruit. I think next time I will use only about 1 1/2 c fruit total (fruit and raisins together) than 4 cups (as in recipe) as I prefer my holiday bread to be more bready. It may rise faster,also. I had orange flower water and added vanilla for a really wonderfully scented bread. The dried fruit I used were craisins,candied orange peel,candied pineapple and golden raisins. I had slivered almonds instead of sliced. Sliced almonds would have been better. The topping was sugar mixed with a few drops of the orange flower water and vanilla,stirred to a wet,crumbly stage and put on top before baking for a crackly kind of finish.

A new camera is on the Christmas wish list-this one is almot dead! Wish the pics were better.

Happy Holidays! and don't let the holidays break your bank. Take a look around for what will work! It's a good exercise for the brain!

Thanks to floydm for the delicious pannetome and brioche recipes! My co-workers and family love you for it!



jim baugh's picture
jim baugh

Muffuletta Bread and olive salad recipe

We just made some Muffuletta bread for our olive salad turned out great. Baked in cast iron skillets to get those nice round loafs. First try on this one, but, turned out really good.

Recipe and info at our blog


Have a great day!!

Jim Baugh


txfarmer's picture

Dresdner Stollen

Used the recipe by harrygermany in this thread, comparing to the BBA version last year, this one is richer, denser, and more dilicious in my opinion.


Used osmotolerant SAF Gold yeast (24g) instead of the 84g of fresh yeast, the dough rose well and had great ovenspring - a little too much oven spring actually, I think a bit of proofing time wouldn't hurt. But the formula works great as is.

I waited for over a week before cutting open the first one, the other two are wrapped and frozen. Will cut another one around Christmas, the third one sometime next year to see how flavor develope. The generous amount of butter brushed on the finished loaves is really the key for great flavor, even after only "aging" for one week, I am impressed by how rich the taste is. The texture of the loaf is like a rich pound cake, or even a shortbread cookie! I prefer this one over the BBA version.


Submitting to Yeastspotting.