The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

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Szanter5339's picture

Nagyon tetszik nekem ez a kenyér

swtgran's picture

old cookbooks 

This site has some great old cookbooks with really old ways of making bread in them, for those of you that might be interested in those kinds of things.  Terry R..

isand66's picture

Whole Wheat Desem with Quinoa, Barley Flour and Toasted Onions

Now that I finally made the famous Phil's 100% Whole Wheat Desem bread I figured it was time to push the envelope and put my own twist on it.  I love onions so I added some toasted onions and figured I would try to mix up the flour a bit by adding a small percentage of Quinoa and Barley flour.  Both of these flours impart a nice nutty flavor to the dough along with the toasted wheat germ I also added.  I also added some dehydrated onions since I ran out of the toasted onions and wanted to make sure I used enough in the recipe.  Just for the hell of it I added some pistachio oil to make it even more nutty tasting.

I refreshed my whole wheat starter I built for the last bake of 100% Whole Wheat Desem bread and the next day away we went with mixing the final dough.

Please see Phil's original recipe for his  formula for 100% Whole Wheat and his original procedures here


243 grams (refreshed) Desem Starter

650 grams Whole Wheat (KAF 100% Organic)

130 grams Quinoa Flour

119 grams Barley Flour

20 grams Roasted Wheat Germ

838 grams Water (90 degrees F.)

20 grams Sea Salt (or table salt)

11 grams Toasted Onions

4 grams Dehydrated Onions (I ran out of the toasted so used this instead)

11 grams Pistachio Oil (you can omit if desired or use any nut oil or olive oil)


Like the last bake I decided to change his procedures by using my Bosche Mixer as follows:

I mixed  the flours and wheat germ together with all the water except for 50 grams and let them autolyes for 1 hour.  I added the dried toasted onions to the remaining 50 grams of water.  After an hour  I added the levain and the water with onions, pistachio oil and salt and mixed on speed #1 for 1 minute and #2 for 4 minutes.  I then did a stretch and fold, rested the dough uncovered for 10 minutes.  I then did another stretch and fold, covered the dough and let it rest for 10 minutes.  I did one more stretch and fold and put it in a lightly oiled bowl for 1.5 hours.  I then put it in the fridge overnight.

The next day I let the dough sit out at room temperature for 1.5 hours.  After 1.5 hours I formed it into loaves and put them in floured bannetons and let them rise covered for 2 hours.  Score the loaves as desired and prepare your oven for baking with steam.

I then baked on my oven stone with steam at 450 degrees until both loaves were golden brown and reached an internal temperature of 200 - 210 degrees F.

The bread had a great nutty flavor and you can taste the barley and quinoa flours for sure along with the onions.  The crumb was nice and moist and open with a nice dark medium hard crust.

Szanter5339's picture

Legyezős mákos.

dmsnyder's picture

Phil's Desem & SFBI Miches 5/18/12

This was my second bake of Phil's (PiPs) Desem. His beautiful blog entry on this bread can be viewed here: Honest bread - 100% whole-wheat desem bread and some country bread. As with my first bake, I modified Phil's procedure somewhat, using CM fine ground organic whole wheat flour rather than fresh-ground white WW flour and machine mixing. While I baked directly on a stone last time, today I baked in Lodge 4 qt. Cast Iron Dutch ovens.

Desem crust close-up

The general appearence of the loaves was pretty much the same between the two baking methods. I understand that Phil is contending with the special challenges of a gas oven, but, for me, baking on the stone directly is easier than wrangling hot and heavy DO's. 

Desem crumb profile

Desem crumb close-up

I cut the desem loaves 3-4 hours after baking. The crumb structure was very satisfactory, but it was somewhat gummy. Hansjoakim (see below) raised an excellent question: Would the desem benefit from a 24-36 hour rest before slicing, like a high-percentage rye does? I wonder.

The flavor of the desem, tasted when first sliced was very assertive - sweet whole wheat with a moderate sour tang. The sourness had decreased the next morning when I had it toasted for breakfast. It was very nice with butter and apricot jam.

I also baked a couple 1 kg loaves using the SFBI Miche formula. (See Miche from SFBI Artisan II - 2 kg) I altered the flour mix. The final dough was made using half KAF AP and half CM Organic Type-85  flour.

We had some of this bread with dinner. The crust was crunchy and the crumb was soft but chewy. The flavor was complex - sweet, wheaty and mildly sour. I have made this bread using the original SFBI formula, with all CM Type-85 flour and with the mix I used today. I'd be hard pressed to say which I prefer. They have all been delicious.

I'm happy with today's bakes.


JoeV's picture

May 18, 2012 bread baking

Restocking the freezer with some Italian bread and Italian & honey whole wheat sandwich thins. Also made some Italian Epi baguettes topped with sesame seeds, poppy seeds, sweet onion chips, garlic powder and Spanish paprika...just for the fun of it. Wow, are they tasty!

lily's's picture

PAVAILLER Oven $3500

I have a 3 deck Pavailler Oven for sale. I bought it 2 years ago hoping to use it in our bakery. We have since closed the bakery and need to sell the oven. It has been stored outside with tarp for coverage. The stones are in great condition. It needs to be dismantled and will need to have some parts replaced. We had been in contact with the representative for Pavailler here in the States. He is willing to discuss the oven and his suggestion to us was to dismantle the oven ourselves and he would come and help us determine what new parts would be needed and he would make sure it was reworked and put together and ready to use. 

This is a huge oven and needs to be picked up at our location, Augusta, Ga 30906. a   We will not ship it. It is a wonderful opportunity to own a great oven at a discount. Most used ovens of this kind begin at $20,000.

I can send additional pictures and any additional information you might need.  It is a gas oven and came out of a large grocery store up north. 

Annette Eyrich


zooterist's picture

How to make a yeasty soft roll

Occasionally I like to make soft rolls, which is what many Southerners prefer.  The problem I'm having is there is no yeastiness to the rolls when they're done.  I like to be able to smell and taste a mild, residual yeastiness in warm homemade rolls.   The best bread I ever made was years ago and required hours to make.  It was a small French loaf baked on a terra cotta mold.  It went thorugh three risings before going into the oven.  I didn't know yeast could last that long, but it did. 

How does one impart that mild yeastiness to bread? 

Caveat:  I like to do the kneading in a food processor.  It's less messy and it's much faster.  Normally I put in all the dry ingredients (including a "quick rise" yeast) into the processor and then pour in very warm, wet liquid(s), letting the processor run until a ball has formed.  Then I let it whirl for another 30 to 45 seconds before putting it in a greased bowl in the oven with a bowl of warm water.   I know this technique is probably sacrilege to bread purists and artisans, but I'm neither.  I just want to to impart a little yeastiness to my soft rolls. 

Any suggestions?


breadsong's picture

pan de piña y piloncillo, or, from Turkey to Mexico by way of Hawaii?

Hello everyone,
Franko very kindly told me about a baking textbook that was available for sale online: On Baking
(authors Sarah Labensky, Priscilla Martel, Klaus Tenbergen and Eddie Van Damme).

Happily, I purchased the book, and once it arrived, the first thing I made was Turkish Pide Bread,
a round loaf with a pretty, diamond-patterned and sesame-coated crust:  

On the weekend, I saw this pineapple pattern on my friend’s tablecloth -
it reminded me of the Turkish bread’s crust:

Pineapple bread! I thought…and found a formula for Hawaiian Pineapple Sweet Bread in Advanced Bread and Pastry...
and Janie’s recent post about bakers from Mexico got me thinking about Mexican sweets and flavors.
Wanting to make this pineapple bread but being short of time, I made a sponge-based version of the ABAP formula, substituting a small amount of medium rye and whole wheat flour, and adding some fresh pineapple (diced, then caramelized with Mexican piloncillo sugar and unsalted butter, then flavored with small amounts of Mexican canela (cinnamon) and vanilla bean paste. This is how the pineapple turned out (yum!):

Here is the baked bread, kind of lumpy-looking but completely delicious: 
pineapple-brown sugar bread, or pan de piña y piloncillo :^)

To make the diamond pattern, I started by rolling with a thin dowel, but this dough was springy and the marks left by the dowel would not remain. I used a bench scraper to impress the diamond pattern on the dough, and went over the pattern a few times during proofing, and one last time, right before the bread went into the oven. 

The pineapple flavor completely infused throughout the crumb – loved how this tasted!
Here is the crumb:
(ice cream drizzled with some of the caramel sauce was a lovely accompaniment)

This is my adaptation of Mr. Suas' formula (1200 grams, to make 2 pineapple breads):

I enjoyed letting my oven 'travel around the world' for this bake :^)
(borrowing the phrase from this baker’s post)

With thanks to Mr. Suas for another fantastic formula – will have to try the levain version of his Hawaiian Pineapple Sweet Bread!

Happy baking everyone!
:^) breadsong

Submitted to Susan for YeastSpotting




netrider's picture

problems for a Newbie

Can anyone advise me where my problem may finished bread looks great (I do a multigran loaf) but the bottom 1/3 looks doughy and undercooked. Is it the oven or my dough. I do a machine prep then raise, hand kneed then raise again. I use a multigrain mix with packet yeast and bread improver.