The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

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Cristi101070's picture

my bread tearing before baking during the second rise

Hi, sorry if my english is bad, I live in Caracas Venezuela and I speak and write a little english.

Well, I had made a Peter Reinhart´s Ezekiel bread many times and it did go well, by now I´m having problems during the second rise, my bread tearing befor I´m baking and I don´t know wy. I use the same formula that I used in the past but I´m not have the same result. Please help me. 

cfiiman's picture

Finally got oven spring, question about crust...

Hey everyone, brand new for the most part, only made half a dozen loaves or so, concentrating on just an artisan round bread, I think they call boule?  Anyway so tonight was the first one I'm really proud of I guess, i'm only using APF as my starters are no where near ready, so I'm just practicing.  I'm concentrating on crum texture and a nice crust and this is what brings me to my issue.  The recipe I'm using is the master recipe in "artisan bread in 5 minutes a day", however I feel like their recipe is sooooo wet that most of my boules are just flat, only a few inches high at best b/c they spread out instead of up.  I figured this was due to being unable to "tighten" the gluten enough to get it to fight the spread and b/c my stone was not getting hot enough due to a large water pan I use for steam.  Even though my crumb has gotten really nice and the texture and feel of the bread when eating is great as well, I just haven't been able to get that elusive "oven spring" they talk about.  

So I made 3 changes today after measuring my stone with an IR thermo and seeing that the steam was killing the heat so that the bottom was still white and the top would burn.  I decided to nix the steam pan completely after several "different" tries with it, and my stone came right up to temp.  The second thing I did was put a roasting pan over the bread for the first 15 minutes to create a makeshift "dutch oven steamer" using just the moisture in the dough.  The last change was I added a bunch more flour to the mixture after taking it out of the fridge to mix it up for the proofing.  I made it much dryer and kept stretching the dough around until it was tighter than I had ever gotten it and held more of a "ball" shape.  The result was the picture below, almost exactly what I was aiming for!

This is the crumb from my last one that was much flatter:

The crust didn't have that "shine" that when I use the steamer pan and spritzer has.  Should I have maybe spritzed the dough a good amount right before putting the pan over it?  I'm guessing maybe there wasn't enough steam inside the pan from the dough, maybe b/c I made the mixture much drier than ever before.  I'm looking for that perfect crust and thought maybe some of you all could tell me what would get me there.  Also how "crusty" should the bread be, I mean when it cools down should make a bunch of "crackly" noise when you tear or cut it?  Mine does right after it comes out of the oven, but when it cools down the "hardness" of the crust is substantially reduced, is this normal?  Thanks for any insight!  

david earls's picture
david earls

Pain polonais

OK, my first total failure in the artisan area, but I'll probably try this again anyway.

Dough consisted of poolish with 100% hydration (that's 100% of total hydration), a little bit of flour added at the dough stage with a tiny bit of yeast and "regulation" salt.

Target was 150g of flour at 80% hydration. Think, "baked poolish" - almost. Tried doing it in a cloche - first time there as well. Too many variable changed to succeed.

But I think that if I reduce total hydration to about 70%, make my poolish based on all the water, this could work. Have to stiffen the dough enough to be able to let it final proof outside a proofing container. Pouring slack dough from the container directly into the cloche is guaranteed not to work.

Q for the pros: what if I do final proof in the cloche base (room temp) and just preheat the lid? This one strikes me as as much about the bake as about the dough. You dig?

qahtan's picture


scones every ones favourite,, g

qahtan's picture

pullman loaf

timbit1985's picture

sourdough foccacia - Reinharts formula.

Went to the mother in-laws for dinner. She asked me to bring an appy. I brought a batch of foccacia from the Foccacia formula found in Reinharts "Artisan breads every day" book. I didn't manage to get a picture of the crumb, as it disappeared in about 5 minutes after the first pic. The crumb was pretty open, but I was a bit rough with it after the final rise. I think with a bread like this, people will pay less attention to the crumb and more attention to the toppings, which was fine with me because I wasn't happy with the crumb.

Toppings are

- Chopped tomatoes, mixed with a handful of minced fresh basil, white wine vinegar, garlic, fresh thyme and greek oregano. Plenty of salt and pepper. Finished with a healthy sprinkle of grated parm as soon as it came out of the oven

- Caremelized onions, goat cheese, fresh diced/seeded tomatoes, salt, pepper and then finished with some reduced balsamic vinegar and topped with wild arugula.  Sprinkled with grated parmesan as well. I was going to include a dizzle of pesto, but didn't have enough basil left.


Sorry about the external galleries, my computer where I can resize images is in my babies room...who is sleeping right now. Don't wake the baby!


timbit1985's picture

Did I do it right? S&F

85% hydration sourdough Ciabatta. 30% of flour was used in a 50% hydration preferment.

First S&F was done in the bowl with a scraper. Subsequent 3 folds were done at 30 min intervals.,UHI3JwW#1,UHI3JwW#0

I started doing the S&F technique about 8-12 months ago. I still can't believe the difference it makes to loaves!




MatticusPDX's picture

Brioche Hamburger Buns - Expert Advice Needed!

Hi Bakers,

I manage a small(tiny) bakery in the back of a larger restaurant kitchen. The majority of our product output consists of brioche hamburger buns, which we make in both a 4oz and 1.5oz size, and they have been suffering from the same issue since before I took over as manager. This is that, post-baking, the tops of our buns have evident, large bubbles in them giving them an uneven, ugly appearance. Many also suffer from cracks all over the top, as though they had expanded and then slightly collapsed in the oven. Also, when we cut into them a lot of them have large air pockets inside which makes them unsalable.

I will post some pictures as soon as I am able showing the 'problem areas', but for now any advice anyone can give will be hugely appreciated! I have made brioche buns en masse at one of my past jobs and so I know from experience that these issues are absolutely solvable; sadly, I do not remember the recipe used in that kitchen so I cannot check it for comparison.

Lastly: The recipe we use comes from a sponge made each day for the next day's dough, which will then be fermented overnight in the refrigerator before being cut and formed the day following. All of our cutting and forming is done by hand.


Okay! Thank you so much in advance for any tips. This has the potential to be a consistently great bun and I look forward to getting it there.


bread_chemist's picture

Use of xylose in baking?

I was recently trying to find glucose locally.  While I did not find glucose, I found an Asian store that sold xylose (the five carbon version of glucose).  From a quick search of the inter webs, it looks that xylose is 70% as sweet as sucrose (table sugar) while glucose is 74% as sweet as sucrose.  I assume that I can substitute xylose for glucose in cookies/cakes.  Any experience with this would be helpful.  Thanks.

Liverpoolbaker's picture

Croissants in a deck oven

I'm trying to bake croissants in our deck oven but not having a lot of success, I was wondering what settings people use on their deck ovens if they are baking croissants and laminated products? Mainly they have been coming out very cakey, with little separation of layers, I don't think its the lamination as the outside layers are very flakey and distinct but the inside is heavy with a cake like structure.