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Eidetix's picture
Eidetix

Links to videos on kneading by hand

Happy Thanksgiving to all.


For what it's worth, you will find below a handful of links to videos that demonstrate hand-kneading technique. I encourage others to add comparable links herein, so this thread might become a reference point for TFL posters with questions on the topic.


Links were current as of Nov. 25, 2010.


The first video features world-class baking teacher Richard Bertinet demonstrating his slap and fold technique. He is working with sweet dough, but I believe he recommends a similar approach with other doughs.


The Bertinet link:


http://www.gourmet.com/magazine/video/2008/03/bertinet_sweetdough


YouTube offers a French student showing and telling (in English) the ins and outs of slap and fold. I like this one because it's light-hearted.


The clip is headlined "Hand Dough Kneading French Method." Here's the link:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvdtUR-XTG0


The following segment showcases TFL stalwart Mike Avery applying the more gentle fold, push and turn technique. The video is about halfway down the page, just beneath the second chart thereon.


The Avery link:


http://www.sourdoughhome.com/kneadingconverting.html


The next link also illustrates fold, push and turn. It's from Fleischmann's Yeast. At about 90 seconds, it won't take much of anyone's time.


The Fleischmann's link:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9KX4KFBj5w


For good measure, this demo from epicurious also addresses fold, push (or stretch) and turn.


The epicurious link:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWj8oHMPFm0


As to recommended techniques, I recommend that you ask somebody who knows much more about making bread than I do. Otherwise, please enjoy, add to and comment on.


Bob

Mary Clare's picture
Mary Clare

Hamelman's Five Grain Levain


This is  a half recipe.  I baked the rolls first with a disposable roaster over them for steam (spritzing them and the bowl with water first), and when those were done (should have baked the rolls a bit longer), I put in the bread with the bowl over it.  Also, I didn't have any high gluten flour, so I added a half-teaspoon of gluten, and multi-grain cereal instead of cracked rye.  I'm always trying to raise the percentage of whole wheat, so next time I will increase the amount of whole wheat flour.


Happy Thanksgiving!


 

amolitor's picture
amolitor

Pumpkin Bread

We broke up a jack-o-lantern for soup the other day (just a regular pumpkin, not a sugar-pie or anything, not a pumpkin especially for eating but of course edible). Had a couple cups of mashed baked pumpkin left over, so I thought I'd see what happened when I put it in bread. I wasn't expecting much flavor, since the regular pumpkins just don't have that much. The answer, in short, was: Eh, it's bread. Sort of moist.


The long answer:


Evening of Day 0:



  • 1 cup whole flour

  • 1 cup warm water

  • 2 T active sourdough starter


Let sit out overnight, covered, until you get a nice active/ripe sponge the next day.


Morning of Day 1



  • 1 cup warm water

  • 2 cups mashed baked pumpkin.. gunk

  • ripe sponge from last night

  • 4 cups bread flour (roughly)


Mix in the bowl to get a kneadable dough. I used a 10 minute autolyze at this point because I wanted to make muself some coffee.


This is where it gets interesting: The dough was kneadable without sticking on a wooded board (just barely -- this is my preferred dough texture). I kneaded in:



  • 2 and 1/2 tsp salt

  • 1 tsp ground coriander (I think this was an error)


and kept kneading. The dough kept getting sticker, and I kept dusting aggressively with flour. I think this not uncommon when you're adding vegetable matter to a dough, I have a potato bread recipe that's similar. I think the vegetables give up water as you work them. I kneaded for about 10 minutes on board, working in probably 3/4 cup of flour just to maintain it at "almost but not quite sticking to the floured board." At this point I gave up, and started kneading it as a high-hydration dough (slap it down, let it stick, streeeeetch a bit and fold it over, rotate 90 degrees and repeat) for another ten minutes. Thankfully, it didn't get much wetter.


Bulk rise a couple hours, with a couple stretch-and-folds, the dough came together beautifully. However, it tasted TERRIBLE, or possibly I was having a stroke. I *think* the coriander was doing something unpleasant, so the dough tasted fine for a few seconds, and then there was this weird bitter thing that happened in your mouth.


Anyways. Shaped into a boule, proofed in improvised banneton, preheat over to 475, bake with steam at 425 for 45 minutes. Probably should have baked longer.


The bad taste seems to be gone (thankfully) and what we're left with is a completely unremarkable sourdough that's rather moist (almost gummy) and has a lovely color. It's too moist to toast easily, which is a bore, I'd bake it another 10 or 15 minutes if I was to do it again (which I won't -- this recipe was a bust, to my mind!)


It's the best looking loaf I've ever baked, though, so by golly, here's some pictures:




 


Crumb very moist. You can see bits of pumpkin in it! Sorry for the sort of lousy photo, this was in the evening:


 


hanseata's picture
hanseata

Hearty Rye and Tricky Recipe

A while ago I bought a new baking book full with mouth watering photos of gorgeous looking loaves: "Brot", an introduction to Germany's best bakers and their signature breads. Luxurious as this book is, its principal purpose seems to be promoting culinary travels to the featured bakeries, not giving readers understandable instructions on how to make those lovely loaves at home.

The sourdough starter you simply "buy from a bakery" - no mention of hydration levels - and breads are baked "at falling temperatures". And if you obediently follow the recipes' baking temperatures and times you will end up with howling smoke alarms, crazed pets, and charred bread corpses - the instructions are probably meant for wood fired ovens. The publishers obviously printed the recipes in as they came from the bakers, never bothering with having them edited.

So I was up for a great challenge - would I be able to overcome these handicaps?

The first bread I tackled was one from my hometown Hamburg, "Hamburger Kräftiges", a hearty rye sourdough. In the book it looks like this:

"Hamburger Kräftiges" from "Brot - Deutschlands beste Bäcker"

This is the original recipe (2 breads)

520 g rye sourdough (from a bakery)

500 g rye flour type 1150

350 wheat flour type 550

540 g water (25 - 28 C)

 25 g sea salt

 16 g Bioreal-yeast

 

Knead all ingredients for 8 minutes at low speed, adding the yeast after 2 minutes. Cover and let rest for 1 hour. Shape into a round loaf, place on a baking sheet and proof for 1 - 2 hours, in a draft free location.

When surface shows distinct tears, place in 260 C/500 F preheated oven (no slashing). Pour 50 - 60 ml water on another hot baking sheet or oven floor. After 20 minutes, drop temperature to 220 C/425 F. Overall baking time: 60 - 70 minutes.

 

Wanting to start with one bread only, I took half of the recipe. To make the rye starter, I used the 3-step build from Martin Pöt Stoldt ("Der Sauerteig - das unbekannte Wesen) with 60 g ripe rye starter, 100 g rye flour and 100 g water and had a pleasantly sweet smelling active rye sour (100%).

A cold retardation seemed a good idea, and working with P.R.s stretch and fold technique, also. All went well, but when I took the dough out of the refrigerator I wasn't quite sure whether it had overproofed, it seemed to have grown more than I expected.

I shaped a boule and proofed it on a parchment lined baking sheet, waiting for the "distinct tears" to appear. The loaf grew, showing a little cracking, but not anything dramatic. I didn't want to wait until it overproofed, and put it in the oven. I knew that the baking temperatures and times had to be off, so I reduced the heat after 10 minutes, and checked the bread after a total baking time of 40 minutes, the internal temperatures registered already 210 F.

The bread didn't look bad, but not at all like the one in the book:

Was the photo in the book photoshopped? It looked much lighter than my loaf. And why didn't I get those pretty tears in the crust?

The bread tasted pretty good, too, but I wasn't satisfied - I wanted the one from the stupid book!

I posted those pictures, and friendly TFLers made some helpful comments, but nobody could figure out why my bread looked like a disadvantaged sibling.

Revengefully I didn't touch the book for a while and worked on other projects. But since I usually don't give up easily, and so far had managed to adapt many German bread recipes to American ingredients (and better techniques), I started pondering over the recipe again.

What made my bread look so different? Why had it almost overproofed in the fridge? And then, belatedly, I did some research in the "internets". I started with the mysterious "Bioreal" yeast. No wonder it had risen so much - this organic instant yeast contains less yeast cells than regular one, therefore 8 g was too much. For the amount of flour 6 g should be enough.

For the wheat in the recipe i had used bread flour - I know it's approximately the equivalent to German type 550. But what about the rye? Without thinking I had taken what I had: whole rye flour. And there it was! With help from Wikipedia I found out that German rye type 1150 was an "in between" white and whole rye. After some calculations I believed I could substitute type 1150 with a mix of 52% whole rye + 48% white rye. (I had some white rye from testing NYBakers recipes, but didn't use it).

Finally, why had the bread on the photo such dramatic cracks, and mine only puny little tears? I found the answer to this question in a TFL post, about proofing a boule on a baking sheet seamside up, not down - to achieve just such a distinct pattern!

So I tried the "Hearty Rye from Hamburg" again, with these modifications. I also changed the temperatures and baking times to the ones I use for "Feinbrot" and many other lean German mixed rye wheat breads.

I liked this result much better:

It also tasted better - according to my husband this was: "the best bread you ever made"! (He is the best of all husbands - he says that every time, when he likes a new bread).

Hearty Rye from Hamburg - crumb

This is my recipe adaptation:

HEARTY RYE FROM HAMBURG

STARTER
60 g rye sourdough starter (100%)
100 g water, lukewarm
100 g whole rye flour
 
DOUGH
270 g water (95 F)
6 g instant yeast
all starter
110 g whole rye flour
140 g white rye flour
175 g bread flour
13 g salt

 

DAY 1
Prepare starter.

DAY 2
Dissolve yeast in warm water. Add to all other ingredients in mixer bowl. Mix at low speed for 1 - 2 min. until all comes together. Let rest for 5 min.

Knead at medium-low speed for 2 min., adjusting with water, if necessary. Dough should still be sticky. Resume kneading for another 4 min., the last 20 sec. at medium-high speed.

Transfer dough to lightly floured surface. Stretch and fold 4 times, with 10 min. intervals (total time 40 min.) After last S & F, refrigerate overnight.


DAY 3
Remove dough from refrigerator 2 hours before using.

Preheat oven to 500 F/260 C, including steam pan.

Shape dough into boule, place seam side UP on parchment lined sheet pan. Proof at room temperature for 45 - 60 min., or until dough has grown 1 1/2 times, and surface shows distinct cracks.

Bake 10 min. at 475 F/250 C, steaming with 1 cup boiling water, then reduce heat to 425 F/220 C and bake for another 10 min. Rotate bread and remove steam pan. Continue baking for 20 - 30 min (internal temperature 200 F/93 C).

Let cool on wire rack.

UPDATE 10/15/11: in the meantime I made a side by side comparison with American medium rye (a lighter variety, not a medium grind!) and imported (so to speak) German Typ 1150. American medium rye is a perfect substitute for German medium rye types 1150 or 1370, and my sample tasted even better: http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/25482/who-winner-medium-rye-comparison


Dwayne's picture
Dwayne

Star Bagels

I've had a hard time with bagels.  I have asked a few questions here about my wrinkled bagels that I've made (thanks Mark Witt).  I made Bagels while being a recipe tester for Peter Reinhart's "Artisan Bread Every Day".  I also have made them from "The Bread Baker's Apprentice" but they were always wrinkled.  While testing recipes for Norm & Stan I had some success with their Montreal Bagels.  I did not do anything very different, these just turned out.  So I have been frustrated with bagels.


 


Completely unrelated, I had borrowed "Dough" by Richard Bertinet from our library and in there saw how he shapes rolls and in one chapter he cuts rolls into stars.  The star rolls looked great and I tried out this technique on some Buttermilk Clusters (recipe found on this site).


 


It occurred to me to try this cut on bagels and so here are my results.  I used the recipe from "The Bread Baker's Apprentice" by Peter Reinhart.  I did not retard the dough over night.


 



After mixing and kneading, I let the dough rise while I did some outdoor chores.  I then scaled them into 130 gram portions and shaped them into tight balls using Richard's method.  Question: Why do we do this for Boules but not bagels or did I miss this?  I then let them rest for about 20 minutes.


 



I got out a Starbucks gift card that was all used up (it is also doubling as a dough scraper until I find a real one).  I then put a little oil on the edge that will do the cutting and made my first cut.


 



I then made 2 more cuts.


 



Once the three cuts have been made you turn the dough inside out so that the points of the star are on the outside.  Put the best side up on the oiled parchment paper.


 



Here is one batch of bagels proofing for about 20 minutes.  After 20 minutes I boiled them (actually the water was not quite boiling) for 20 seconds a side, put topping on and baked on a hot stone.


 



I made two batches of bagels and it used up all but about a cup of flour from a 5 lb. bag.


 



I tried Onion for the first time.  I took some dehydrated onions and let them steep in hot water and then drained them.  I sprinkled some of the onions on the top of the boiled bagels just before putting them in the oven.  I also used Poppy seeds and Black Sesame Seeds.


 


Here are a few more pictures.


 


So, many thanks to Peter, Richard, Mark, Norm and Stan.  I am pleased the way these turned out.


Happy Baking,


Dwayne

Floydm's picture
Floydm

Potato loaf and fresh butter

I made a potato bread today, using Dan Lepard's recipe from The Art of Handmade Bread (AKA The Handmade Loaf) as the basis and tweaking it a bit.  If memory serves me right, I used:


300 grams water


200 grams mashed potatoes


500 grams bread flour


1 tablespoon sourdough starter (cold from the fridge)


1 tablespoon honey


2 teaspoon salt


1 teaspoon instant yeast


I gave it quite a while, 10 minutes or so, in the mixer, then let it rise slowly most of the day, folding it a couple of times when I noticed it cresting over the edge of the bowl..  I shaped it an hour or so before I wanted to bake it, then baked it with steam at 465 for 15 minutes then 400 or so for another 20 to 30 minutes.


Potato Bread


Potato Bread


It has a relatively tight crumb but is really nice and soft.  I'm thinking I may make this as rolls for my Thanksgiving day feast this year.


My kids and I also made fresh butter in Mason jars as discussed here


Bread and butter


The kids had a blast dancing around the living room shaking the jars (we put some music on) and the butter was truly delicious.  It is well worth the effort!

manicbovine's picture
manicbovine

Sunflower Seed Spelt

This bread is a variation of a recipe for Dinkelvollkornbrot by Nils' from Ye Olde Bread Blogge. The original recipe, found in his excellent book, calls entirely for spelt. I've made quite a few recipes from this book and each has been extraordinary. Nils' formula produces a moist bread with mildly sour undertones. I enjoyed it with cucumber sandwiches and also with a thin smear of plum butter. The formula needs no modification, and I wouldn't have bothered if I hadn't run out of spelt meal.


My goal was to make a more assertive bread without compromising all of the original's pleasant qualities. My variation is to omit yeast, use blackstrap molasses, use extra water, and use rye meal. I actually made this bread twice. The extra water necessitated a longer baking time, but I underestimated the first time and ended up with a rather gummy center. In addition to giving it a longer bake at a lower temperature, I let it rest for an additional 12 hours before slicing. These simple steps cured the gummy center.


Formula - Sunflower Seed Spelt 


 


Spelt Sour



  • 75g whole-spelt flour

  • 45g water

  • 1 tsp mature 100% rye sourdough


Soaker



  • 75g sunflower seeds

  • 25g flaxseeds

  • 150g rye meal

  • 340g water


 


Final Dough



  • 170g whole-spelt flour

  • 130g water

  • 15g Blackstrap molasses

  • 10g salt


 


Method



  • Prepare the soaker and spelt sour, let sit for 15-20 hours. 

  • Mix all ingredients until smooth and knead lightly in bowl for around 5 minutes, or until gluten from spelt develops.

  • Bulk rise for around 2 hours, pour into a loaf pan lined with parchment, and proof for an addition 1-2 hours.

  • Bake under normal steam at 450F for 5 minutes, reduce to 400F for 20 minutes, and finish off at 375F for 55 minutes. Wrap tightly in cloth towels and let cool for 36 hours before slicing.


Nils' recipe calls for yeast, which I omitted. My rye starter is not as happy to feed on spelt, so my rising times were probably a little longer than what I've indicated above.


This bread was excellent with Turkey, cream cheese, sprouts, and cranberry sauce. (Vegan versions for me, but I'm sure it's just as good with the regular stuff).


 


This is a poor picture due to sloppy slicing and a bum exposure. The crumb is actually denser than the photo would indicate.


Sunflower Spelt


Cheers.

MIchael_O's picture
MIchael_O

Pre-screening and Analyzing Recipes for Baked Goods

Hello bakers,


     For some while it has been a quest to decipher baking recipes (e.g. Michael Ruhlman "Ratio: The Simple Codes Behind the Craft of Everyday Cooking", Shirley Corriher, etc.).  But noone has attempted to prove their method is correct for all recipes or that their method defines what and what doesn't make a baked good.


     In short, I have a way to numerically describe recipes, A calculator to automate the calculation process, and an excel spreadsheet with example calculations (over 300). And this method does define what and what isn't a particular baked good.


    What I did is to graph the hundreds of recipes from the excel spreadsheet. The graph has a defined patterns, with defined groupings for baked goods (e.g. between 0.30-0.50 is a bread, and outside this region, bread can not exist using standard preparation techniques). It is essentially an elaborate calculation of the ratio of wet to dry ingredients.


The Purpose of all this is to:


Allow for more complex substitutions (e.g. local ingredients), Diagnosis of recipe problems, Allow for the quick pre-screening of recipes posted on the web, Aid in rapid design of recipes, etc.


For example, in addition to posting pictures of a baked good, posting the three chararcteristic numbers (thickness of batter, butter(oil), and egg content) of this method may allow you to determine the outcome of the baked good recipe (i.e. will the cookie be too cakey, will the pound cake/muffin be dry, etc)


First, please take a look at the chart and everything will make sense or at least it will give you the motivation to learn about what I have done:


Listed in order of importance


1. Chart: Chart


2. Explanation: Article


3. Calculator: Baking Calculator


4. Spreadsheet: Spreadsheet


 


Bakers percentages are only partially supported. The calculations can also be done manually.


 


As always , constructive - with constructive being emphasized - criticism is much welcomed.


Good night and great loaves,


Michael O.

trailrunner's picture
trailrunner

Apple Crostada

I have never made this before. I looked up a number of different recipes and then made up my own. I used my old standby of a buttermilk crust. I doubled the crust recipe .  I sauteed 7 sliced Gala apples till tender and added cinnamon and sugar and flour and a pinch of salt. I rolled out the crust and piled on the apples and baked till golden and juicy. I was wonderful with vanilla Blue Bell ice cream. We have it here in the South I don't think everyone can get it ...it is still sold in real half gallons. 


 


 Single Crust recipe:


1 c AP flour and cut in 5 TB chilled unsalted butter and 1/4 tsp kosher salt till large crumbs. I use my Cusinart.  Place in freezer till ready to use. Remove from freezer and toss with chilled buttermilk till holds together. Roll out on floured counter w/ floured pin. Brush crust with beaten egg white and pile on apples leaving a 2 inch border. Turn up and pleat edges of crust. Brush w/ remaining egg white and sprinkle with Turbinado sugar. Bake at 375 till brown and juicy...about 40 minutes. I used a piece of parchment paper on a cookie sheet and it worked great . 


Photobucket

wally's picture
wally

Baking on a Fall Sunday


One downside to working as a baker is that it doesn't allow me time to bake during the week.  So now everything gets crammed into weekends.  And frankly, sometimes after a week at the bakery, I really don't feel like spending a day off baking more.  And yet, inevitably I find my two starters staring at me ruefully, and so on a beautiful Fall day when the temperatures felt more like September than mid-November, I decided to do a series of bakes.


Below, from the upper left moving clockwise: a 72% rye with soaker, Vermont Sourdough, a batard and a boule of Polish Country Rye.



On Saturday I got started by mixing and then retarding overnight Hamelman's Vermont Sourdough.  I've discovered that even with giving the bread an hour and a half proof before final retarding, it still needs an additional three hours the next day at room temperature to finish proofing.  But, the finished loaf rose nicely in the oven.


 


Here's a couple crumb shots of the Vermont sourdough:


       


Saturday evening I prepared the rye levains and soakers for the 72% rye and the Polish Country Rye.  I've become so fond of the added sweetness imparted by soakers, that they are now a routine part of my rye preparation.  However, a couple weeks back I had my first experience with the dreaded 'starch attack' and this has led me to now add either part of all of the salt in my rye formulas to the soakers as a preventative measure.


This morning while the Vermont sourdough finished its final proofing, I began with the 72% rye because I knew it would have the shortest floor time before final shaping and baking.  In using a high proportion of the water for the recipe in the levain and soaker I unintentionally created a problem I had not foreseen: my kitchen was cold this morning, and I found that the flour temperature and those of the levain and soaker were only about 68° F.  But there was so little water to be added to the final mix, that it was not possible to arrive at a DDT of around 80°.  This necessitated both extending the bulk fermentation from 30 minutes to 50 minutes, and setting the dough container on top of my then-warming oven to increase its internal temperature.  Note to self: it's important to retain a sufficient amount of water for the final mix to adequately adjust DDT!


In any event, the jury-rigged proofing worked, and once the loaf was air-shaped (the hydration was at 80%) and placed in a pyrex baking dish, it required a little under 50 minutes before it was ready for baking.  I baked if for 60 minutes, starting out at 450° and dropping the temperature by 25 degrees every 15 minutes, so that the oven temp at bakes end was 375°.


Here's the final result: it will sit for 24 hours to completely set and then I'll add some crumb shots.  But it's already got a pleasant sweetness about it.



The Polish Country rye I altered slightly by upping the percentage of rye from its usual 15% to 30%.  Even with that, this is a most agreeable dough to work with - it has the gluten development and consistency of wheat-based doughs, so there is very little of the stickiness associated with high percentage ryes.  Final proofing after shaping one into a boule and the other a bâtard was about two and a half hours and it baked at 440° for 45 minutes.  Here's some more shots of the final result - crumb shots to follow.


        All three breads were baked using a combination of SylviaH's wet-towel-in-a-dish method and my lava rocks in a cast iron frying pan to generate steam.  As the loaves and cuts indicate, I cannot say enough good things about Sylvia's simple yet effective work around for those who, like me, struggle to maintain steam in our steam-venting gas ovens.


So, at the end of a beautiful Fall day I sit at my kitchen table surrounded by a week's worth of wonderful and varied sandwich breads, along with a rich rye loaf that will accompany some good cheeses and spreads.


Not a bad way to unwind after all.


Larry


EDIT: crumb shots of 72% rye and Polish Country rye below.


    

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