The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

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bruneski's picture

Yeast and salt


While reading "Artisan Bread in Five Minutes a Day", I noticed that some of the standard steps in almost all recipes are

"... Warm the water slightly. ... Add yeast and salt (kosher or other coarse type) to the water in a 5-quart bowl. ... Don't worry about getting it all to dissolve. Mix in the flower --- kneading is unnecessary ..."

It also says that after all ingredients are well mixed, the dough should be allowed to rise, covered, at room temperature, until it begins to collapse (or at least to flatten on the top), approximately 2 hours.

Since one of the most basic things I learned here at TFL is that salt slows down yeast action, how can this dough described in the book rise and begin to collapse in just 2 hours?

Thanks. Have a great day!

yozzause's picture


Last week it was time to bake again time to use the culture that i look after at work, to be in readiness for an evening class "Introduction to Sour Dough"

The dough itself was the simple 3:2:1 Flour : Water :Culture the only difference was to step up the water by a further 100ml the salt was 2% other additions were Butter 2%,Turmeric powder @ 0.25% i decided on the Turmeric to possibly contrast the Feta cheese @ 4%  and black olives @ 2% 

The Feta and the olives were folded in in the last couple of fold and stretches. The dough was made first thing in the morning as it would be done for my class, i went back religiously every hour to do the stretch and folds  three repetitions in all  the last one incorporating the cheese and olives , i had prepared more chess but found that there seemed to be plenty. on my lunch break i went and shaped the dough pieces and got them onto the couches and into the cool room.

The following morning i got into work early in order to bake off the bread. Our  new ovens  heat up very quickly    

 so that after you have programmed in the time, temp, fan speed with moisture to go once the temp is up  

and then place your loaves out onto trays for any further preparation  it is almost time to get them in. on this occasion i was not washing them with a cornflour starch wash a is my usual practice especially if i am adding seeds. So it was just a matter of the slashes. 

In my evening class this is one of the things that the students will be doing. i have a sequence of pics now that were taken every 5 minutes  and you should be able to see the changes that take place when the dough pieces are subjected to the heat of the oven, theses Unox ovens allow you to witness this wonderful event that is so often out of site for many of us.

 The dough pieces are out from the cool room  after  some 17 hours  fortunate to have the luxury of laundered linen

table clothes for my couches

 all in the oven with the water injection happening

So there we have it, i also made another dough while i was waiting for this one to come out of the oven but will post that one later 2 doughs in 2 days

kind regards Yozza 

clearlyanidiot's picture

Mill bearings.

I finally got around to converting one of my mills for use with an exercise bike, but after doing so, I noticed the instructions that it came with say that you need to buy an optional ball bearing accessory for use with bike/motor.

After giving it some thought it strikes me that when you're turning a handle 360 degrees of the bearing experiences wear, thus wearing evenly, but when you have the mill driven by a chain or pulley the wear is always going to be in one spot on the bushing.

Has anyone had a problem with wearing out bushings in cheap mills? Or is this just the manufacturer trying to sell a product and then all the accessories one by one.

golfchef1's picture

translation help

wheat stalk=is is l epi  or d epi  ?

cfiiman's picture

Newbie question about bleached flour and starter

Hi everyone, totally new to baking artisan bread but I love it so far.  I wanted to jump into sourdough as soon as I was having good results with baking using active dry yeast in the packets so yesterday I started my starter mix.  I used Gold Medal bleached APF.  I since did some researching and no matter how much I look can't find the answer to my question so wanted to join and ask here as most of the search results usually bring up "The Fresh Loaf" forum.  

I have read that you CANNOT use bleached flour b/c there are NO yeast on the grains (makes sense to me) and your starter will NEVER start.  

I've also read you CAN use bleached flour but might not get good results.  

And lastly I've read you CAN use bleached flour and get great results.

So you can imagine a new person is confused by this.  I checked my starter today, not even 24 hours after starting it with bleached flour and it had developed what I have deemed to be "hooch" which I stirred back in.  A few hours later it was bubbling and growing at only the 24 hour mark (and not fed yet) which I have never read will happen so I'm even more confused and kind of pumped about honestly (take that science!).  I started another starter with King Arthur APF that is unbleached and as I was going to throw out the first one until I saw all the activity and smelled it.  It has a wonderful sweet smell that is VERY nice so I didn't want to throw it out, I figured I'd just continue on in the face of what I have read and see what happens.

Now brings me to my question, which information is correct and which is not about using bleached flour???  Here is what I don't really get, If you want to cultivate your own local wild yeast, why would you use an unbleached flour that already has wild yeast on it from wherever it was produced?  This seems like a contradiction to me.  I read "grow your own wild yeast, but start with an unbleached flour b/c it already has yeast on it", huh?  I get that, but I also get that if the flour was produced in TX and you live in OH, how are you cultivating your own local sourdough yeast if you use flour with yeast already on it?  In contrast if you use bleached flour that has killed all the local yeast at the production plant like I have and it is growing, how can that be anything but my local wild yeast right?  Seems like using bleached flower would be the only way to get 100% local yeast unless you live in the same town that the flour mill is at.  

Anyway just saying hi and hoping someone that is much more experienced can answer my questions for me as I'm super confused.  I feel the need to "throw out" my first batch b/c of using the bleached flour, but again, seems like it is doing exactly what it is suppose to do in spite of all I've read, and "should" be nothing but local yeast which is what I want.

dabrownman's picture

No more problems with food

An enterprising young man has developed a food replacement called Soylent (from soy milk and lentil flour as two main ingredients) that has all the necessary calories, minerals and vitamins required for a perfectly balanced diet. He has added some vanilla to the drink recently to give it a more pleasant taste.

As half the world's food goes to waste, a lie worth repeating here, most of it badly prepared, tastes bad, is bad for you, kills poor animals for no reason and much of it filled with pathogens and chemicals that makes many people ill, can kill them and make them glow in the dark if genetically modified - we need a cheap, perfect replacement for killer food that we can supply the world nearly free of charge and certainly so once you consider the hidden costs of real food waste and the associated medical care required to combat its horrible and deadly effects.  Only one drink per person, per meal, per day required.  No humans were used in its manufacture or production either - another plus!

I'd like to make some bread out if just to beat Ian to it :-)

qahtan's picture

Guinness and walnut

Gotta post this one, of our favourites.. Guinness and walnut. yum.....

looks like I am trigger happy with pictures now.

Nice to know that I have been missed.


Dwayne's picture

Growth Matters: Focusing on Quality over Quantity? Maybe you shouldn't

I received the following from a friend and I thought that it also applies to the Bread World too.


<Start Quote>

Focusing on Quality over Quantity? Maybe you shouldn't


This post popped up on HackerNews which is pretty inspirational: "I'm learning to code by building 180 websites in 180 days. Today is day 115" (JenniferDewalt). But it was the first comment by Derek Sivers that is really resonating with me:

There’s this great story from the book “Art and Fear”, that's very appropriate here:

The ceramics teacher announced on opening day that he was dividing the class into two groups.

All those on the left side of the studio, he said, would be graded solely on the quantity of work they produced, all those on the right solely on its quality.

His procedure was simple: on the final day of class he would bring in his bathroom scales and weigh the work of the “quantity” group: 50 pounds of pots rated an “A”, 40 pounds a “B”, and so on.

Those being graded on “quality”, however, needed to produce only one pot — albeit a perfect one — to get an “A”. Well, came grading time and a curious fact emerged: the works of highest quality were all produced by the group being graded for quantity.

It seems that while the “quantity” group was busily churning out piles of work-and learning from their mistakes — the “quality” group had sat theorizing about perfection, and in the end had little more to show for their efforts than grandiose theories and a pile of dead clay.

<End Quote>


Dwayne (on my way to 50 pounds of good bread)


HappyHighwayman's picture

When to add the salt

The Tartine recipe I used calls for 50 gramsof water and the salt to be added after the initial 30 minute bowl rise. I used to be lazy and just mix it in right away, but the last 2 times I followed the instructions and the bread turned out noticeably better.


What is the reason for that?


bobku's picture

Should I create a new starter

I have been baking with a starter that I made a few tears ago with great results. I have been reading about the Tartine method and was thinking of making a new starter. If I make a new starter won't I end up with a starter that is basically the same as what I have now ? Isn't  the bacteria and yeast  the  same from when I created one a few years ago. Should I just use the starter I have now and feed it as recommended in the Tartine method. Can you create different starters at home using different methods and end up with distinctively different starters? I was under the assumption that the starter I created at home would end up the same no matter what method I used