The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Most bookmarked

  • Pin It
GSnyde's picture
GSnyde

SpudBuns (Sourdough Potato Rolls)


I wanted to make a sandwich roll that had some substance both for chew and to hold up under moist sandwich ingredients, but something tender enough to be compressible.  I’d been meaning to try a bread with some potatoes in it, as I’d heard that potatoes add some tenderness to the crumb (and every crumb needs a little tenderness).


I looked in several baking books and all over TFL.  I settled on the Sourdough Potato Bread that Prairie19 posted about back in 2007 (http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/3886/sourdough-potato-bread), which was described as a sourdough version of Hamelman’s Roasted Potato Bread.


I mostly followed Prairie19’s formula, except I didn’t have the extra night to retard the dough. And instead of bread flour, I used Central Milling’s Organic Artisan Baker’s Craft flour, along with some fine ground organic whole wheat flour from my market’s bulk bins.


I found the formula very straightforward.  The dough was easy to work with.  Somewhat loose, but trainable with appropriate discipline.  Since these rolls were made to surround Salmon Teriyaki, I sprinkled them with sesame seeds when they were shaped, since every one knows that sesames are Salmon Teriyaki’s favorite seeds.  


The rolls came out very nicely.  The crumb and crust are tenderer than lean sourdough bread, but by no means wonderbread soft.  I was hoping for a slightly softer roll. Maybe I’ll try this formula but with a bit of milk in place of some of the water.  The potato flavor is scarcely noticeable.  The flavor is nice, a bit sour, but unremarkable (ok, I’ve been eating great miche, so what can you expect?).


 


IMG_2090


IMG_2093


Though the rolls were not perfect, the Salmon Teriyaki was pretty close.  And the sandwiches (with garlic-lemon sauce and cukes) went down good with a nice pale ale.


IMG_2094


This is a very nice sourdough roll.  I’d enjoy a full sized loaf, too.


The formula is on the page linked above.  I used the same quantities for 6 rolls.


Enjoy!


Glenn

 

sprouted bread baker's picture
sprouted bread baker

calling all sprouted wheat bread bakers

Hi,


I want to host a conference/gathering for bakers of sprouted wheat breads. Commercial bakers and home bakers. Anyone who has been working to perfect the wonderful breads that are derived from sprouted wheat. At Columbia County Breads, we buy our wheat from local organic farmers and bake our sprouted whole grain breads in Bloomsburg, Pennsylvania - about two and a half hours due west from NYC. 


If you're at all interested, please contact me as we would love to host a yearly gathering to share information, techniques, tips and breads and dispel myths and false claims about sprouting and sprouting techniques. The time frame for this gathering is likely to be fall of 2011 but no date has been set.


Thanks so much,


Doug


baker


columbia county bread & granola


www.columbiacountybread.com


baker@columbiacountybread.com


 

OldWoodenSpoon's picture
OldWoodenSpoon

Never saw a dough break down like this before

This does not quite match the discussions I have read, and I am hoping someone might recognize what is going on here and point me in the right direction.


I recently spun off an all white flour sibling of my 18 month old whole wheat 100% hydration starter. The original starter has been fed 95% home ground hard white whole wheat flour, and 5% BRM Dark Rye flour at 100% hydration (50gm:50gm:50gm s:w:f) with excellent results since this forum rescued me and my starter back when I first joined. The sibling is about 6 weeks old and is fed on Pendleton Mills Mor-Bread (AP flour) at the same 100% hydration (50gm:50gm:50gm s:w:f) as it's older sibling. I have baked with it successfully twice before, both as the foundation for pate fermente, as well as for a poolish, in variants of Peter Reinhart's Pain Ordinaire and French Bread with Pate Fermente (old dough) from “Crust and Crumb”.


This all-white flour starter is a new experience for me, so I do not have reasonable expectations by which to measure it. It seems to me, though, to be a bit “odd”. At feeding time it has a consistency that is very fluffy, rather like well whipped egg white, and yet thick, much like pudding but with lots of gas bubbles in it. It reminds me of mareshmallow crème, and it is, of course, tenaciously sticky, clinging to anything and everything it touches, but it has a very pleasant fruity, healthy aroma. My whole wheat starter is pretty easy to break up and mix into the water at feeding, but this white starter is quite resistant to this action. It takes considerable effort to blend the water and starter at feeding, before adding the flour. It triples in volume easily in 4-5 hours, so the overnight delay befor morning feeding is a stretch at 8-9 hours.


This past Thursday morning I began the elaborations for a sourdough using 5% BRM Dark Rye, 5% Pendleton Mills Power (bread flour) flour and 90% Pendleton Mills Mor-Bread (AP flour), to provide a 30% prefermented flour inoculation to a final dough targeted for 72% hydration. The starter had been in the refrigerator for four days so I pulled it out the night before (Wednesday night), and fed it just before bed. The elaborations began first thing in the morning and I built the final dough that night (late), all from the same composition, ending up with 1500 grams of dough for two 750 gram boules.


For clarity, although it is not my point in all this, here are the essentials:


Total Preferment:


259 gm water


259 gm Flour    composed of the following:


            15 gm BRM Dark Rye flour
            15 gm Pendleton Mills Power flour
          229 gm Pendleton MorBread flour


 


Final Dough:


363 gm water


604 gm flour  composed of the following


            30 gm BRM Dark Rye
            30 gm Pendleton Mills Power flour
          544 gm Pendleton MorBread flour


15 gm Kosher Sea Salt (Coarse)


 


For the main build I combined the preferment, flour and water, but withheld the salt, and let it rest (autolyse) for 40 minutes. I added the salt and did two sets of 30 stretch and folds in the bowl at 30 minute intervals. After this second set of s&f's the gluten was beginning to shape up and the dough had come together nicely.


At this point things started to get interesting, but not in any good way.


After another 30 minute rest I came back to do another set of stretch and folds. To my surprise I felt the dough break down right under my hands as I worked on it. It literally fell apart, and the more I tried to stretch and fold it the looser it got. I finished the 30 strokes, gathered it in the bowl to rest, and tried to figure out what to do next.


I sensed that this was not a hydration issue, as the hydration seemed to be about right, but the dough was very stretchy and more sticky than any I have ever worked with. After 30 minutes I pulled the dough out onto my marble work board that I had wet down with cool water. I decided not to try to work in more flour, but this dough was so stretchy and sticky I could not be so stingy with water. Using wet hands and a wet bench scraper and the wet marble I tried to bring the dough together using Bertinet's wet dough technique. It did a little bit of good, but the dough remained essentially like highly congealed cottage cheese, and as sticky as any dough I have ever come up against. It was ugly sticky. I did probably 30 to 40 strokes of slap/stretch/fold/gather/repeat. It was after midnight and Friday was a work day so I had to put it to bed, and me too. I oiled up a dough bucket and managed to get the dough in. It puddled into the bottom of the bucket, and self-leveled. There was little evidence of gas in the dough. I thought it was dead. I put it into the fridge for the night, on the bottom, coldest shelf, cleaned up and went to bed.


On Friday morning I looked at the dough and it was still just a puddle in the bottom of the bucket. I left it in the fridge till afternoon when I could leave my desk to work on it. I pulled it out early and let it sit on the kitchen counter (between 66F and 68F all day) to warm up, and to see if it would come alive. After 90 minutes or so of letting the chill warm up, I could see at least a few nice gas pockets in the dough, but it still appeared very slack and loose. I heavily floured my bench and poured the dough from the bucket. I had to scrape it out to get it to let go of the oiled bucket, and remnants clung tenaciously to the bucket even then.


Even on a heavily floured board this dough stuck to everything, and by the time I finished my hands, bench scraper, board, apron, everything had dough stuck to it. I divided the dough in half, and succeeded in herding each portion into somewhat of a roundish blob, but it wanted nothing to do with holding any shape at all. I used both well floured hands cup-like to gather the blobs and drop them into heavily floured linens in some small plastic colanders I bought at the Dollar Store for just this purpose. I set them to rise, stuck my La Cloche in the oven and set it to preheat to 525F, to let the oven warm the kitchen up and hopefully prod the “loaves” to rise some.


One loaf actually passed the poke test after 90 minutes or so without clinging permanently to my finger, so I started my baking. The first loaf held some shape, although it did flatten noticeably when I turned it onto parchment on the peel. I should not have slashed it so deeply, and that spoiled what shape it had. It behaved as if over-proofed, but I don't believe that to be true. The second loaf I scored only very lightly and with short cuts that did not go all the way across the top of the loaf. This loaf held shape somewhat better, and exhibited somewhat better spring in the oven, but neither loaf performed even marginally well.


I baked both loaves in succession, with the preheated dome on for 12 minutes, turning the oven down to 475F after 7 minutes and removing the dome at 12 minutes. I baked each for an additional 18-20 minutes after removing the La Cloche dome. Neither crust shows a very markedly bold bake, although both loaves finished with internal temperatures up in the 208F-209F range.


Here is a picture that will help visualizing the results.


The light coloration is, I believe, due to all the flour on the surface.  The crumb has good appearance, and shows some variation of hole size, but if you look closely you will see some darker areas of the crumb.  Those are quite gummy/chewey, and the whole loaf is quite heavy, even after cooling over night.  The loaves, under "normal" circumstances should be nearly twice as tall as this had they taken/held any shape, but they lacked any structural integrity.  Hence the very flattened profile.  The whole loaf on the bottom of the stack is the second loaf, which "sprung" about 1/2 inch higher than the other.


I have read Debra Wink's excellent and informative posts on Thiol degradation here. I have read the thread originated by foolispoolish with contributions by Debra Wink and Eric Hanner and others regarding transition of firm starters to white flour here, and the trials of many with super elastic dough.  My evidence does not seem to fit these cases very well, but I don't have the experience or expertise to judge it myself. It is a transitioned starter (whole wheat and rye to white flour), but not a brand new one. It is performing well between feedings, and appears to have made the adjustment to white flour satisfactorily, in the storage jar at least. It seemed to be okay in the first couple of bakes as mentioned above, and not until now, some 6 weeks or so later, has a dough from it just disintegrated.  I really don't know what is going on here.


So, I'm left trying to determine a course of action without any real knowledge of what I am fighting. Until I get better advice I am going to try Debra's recommendation to “feed through it”, in the hope that it is some kind of contamination or invasion and that in time it will be worked out as hers was.  I've started that regimen by reducing quantites to 10 gm:20 gm:20 gm (s:w:f) and will stay as close to three evenly spaced feedings a day, and see how it goes for 10-12 days.


Has anyone else been through this recently, or have any other thoughts, observations, suggestions, reccomended reading?


Thanks for stopping by
OldWoodenSpoon


 


Note: a follow up thread can be found here:  Follow Up to "Never saw a dough break down like this before"


 

Dowens8's picture
Dowens8

Corn meal burning the bottom of my bread?

I have. A question... Can it be the cornmeal burning the bottoms of my breads? I have. Been making a lot of BBA lately and the last few have had burned, inedible bottoms. It didn't happen during my first ciabatta, but the last few breads have been really dark and hard. Anyone help???? Last night I made pizza and used flour instead of cornmeal, and it didn't burn...

Ruralidle's picture
Ruralidle

UK based baking course for TFL users?

Regular readers of the TFL forum will have seen that we have amongst us an expert baker and educator in the form of Andy (ananda).  It is clear from Andy's posts on this forum that he is a very accomplished baker and he has access to kitchens that are suitable for teaching bread baking, the college where he works has even just invested in some deck ovens.  


Having such a resource within our community made me wonder whether we could arrange a course that teaches Artisan bread baking techniques to experienced amateurs (such as myself and most other contributors to TFL).  It is likely that such a course would last at least a couple of days and, given Andy's location in the North East of England, an overnight stay would be necessary for most participants.  However, one great advantage of a course like this is that participants could have a high degree of involvement in developing the course content.


I must stress that this is only an idea at present but, if there are enough interested bakers out there it may be worthwhile exploring things a little further.  It is unlikely that the course could be arranged before June or July 2011.


Is anybody out there - particularly those of us who are UK based - interested?

ssor's picture
ssor

english muffins

I had some left over biga from making pain puglese last week. last night I weighed the flour left in a bag, 21 ounces. The biga amounted to about a cup and a half. I scooped that with my hand and mixed it with 16 ounces of warm water and a teaspoon of yeast and 10 grams of salt. I calculated that this gave me about 75% hydration. I mixed the dough by hand and allowed several periods of resting between turning and folding the dough 3 or 4 strokes. After about six hours I covered the dough for the night and refrigerated it, because I have learned that cold dough is not as elastic as warm dough. This morning I speard cornmeal on the table and dumped the dough spreading it to about a half inch thick. I cut rounds with an empty #2 tomato can.
Several years ago I rescued an electric griddle that had no power cord. I removed the legs and handles. It fits perfectly over two burners on my gas stove. On this I baked the muffin rounds. The heat spring was impressive. Going from the half inch cold thickness to a bit over an inch. After they have been turned I could lift them with my fingers to check the bottoms. The texture of the crumb is typical english muffin with nice holes and peaks.
The biga was quite sour and imparted that sour to the taste.
The yield was 14 pieces about 3 1/2 inches across.

Sylviambt's picture
Sylviambt

Bronx-to-Barn Baker

Hi all. It's been quite a while since I contributed to this site. Lots of changes in last 18 months: bought a farm, began raising grass-fed/grass-finished beef, sold house, now building farm house, started hosting an FM radio show about sustainable farming and its links to sustainable local economies and community. I've been relying on my bread machine for months, but I'm itching to get back to "real" bread baking. I've signed up for a Hamelman challenge to push me along. A secondary challenge is that my bread books are in storage while the farm house is under construction. I'm relying on a copy from the local library to help me make it through.


Hope you're all staying warm this wild winter.


Sylvia

TylerDavis's picture
TylerDavis

high hydration pizza recipe in Peter Reinhart's Artisan Breads Every Day

I have made a few recipes from Peter Reinhart's book "Artisan Breads Every Day"


 


Most of them have turned out OK, but only after I added a LOT of extra flour to make the dough workable.  Like 10-15% more than the recipe calls for.  Otherwise I get bater instead of dough.


 


This is his recipe for Neopolitan Pizza Dough:


 


680g flour


14g salt


3g inst yeast


28.5g sugar


482g water


28.5g olive oil


 


Using my digital scale and weighing ingredients exactly, I basically make batter.  It doesn;t even pretend to stick to the dough hook.  So I keep adding flour until I get some workable.


So my question is: am I calcuating 70% hydration correctly? and is it even possible to make pizza that will come off a peel @ 70% hydration?  Or am I doing somethign wrong?

txfarmer's picture
txfarmer

Focaccia and chorizo thyme rolls - Dallas has frozen over. So I baked.


 


Well, it's been 3 days of ice and below zero temperatures. I lived in Toronto for 5 years, this is nothing to northerners, but to Dallas, a city that has probably 2 sand trucks in total, this is "when the world stops" moment. Even my office closed for two days, which is jaw dropping since the boss is a hardy workaholic. And she's from Romania!Unexpected down time at home, what do I do? Bake breads of course! My starters are still aleep in the fridge, so I mixed up some olive oil dough from the book "Bourke St. Bakery", made two kinds of breads from it.


 


Olive Oil Dough (adapted from "Bourke St. Bakery")


- first dough (it's exactly the same as the main dough, so you just have to make one the first time you make this dough, after that, just reseve a portion from the final dough and use it as first dough for future loaves. it can be stored in fridge for a few days, and frozen for a lot longer.)


bread flour, 100g


salt, 2.5g, 1tsp


olive oil, 3/4tsp


milk, 1/2tsp


water, 70ml


instant yeast, 1g


1. Mix together into a dough, store in fridge for overnight.


-final dough


bread flour, 600g


instant yeast, 6.5g, 2tsp


water, 400g


olive oil, 20ML


milk, 20ML


salt, 15g


first dough, 180g


2. Mix everything togeter, autolyse, knead well.


3. Bulk rise at room temp (73F) for 1.5 hours, S&F every 30min. Dough is very smooth and soft, like silk.


4. Reserve some as preferments for later if desired, otherwise shape into focaccia. Rise for 15min, brush with olive oil, add toppings, rise for another 15min. I used two toppings: black olive+rosemary, and sliced meyer lemon+lavendar.


5. Bake at 350F for about 30min until golden.



 


Soft and fragrant, perfect to snack on.



 


The lemon+lavendar topping is my desperate calling for spring - or at least a break from "wintery mix" and "icy roads". Black olive+rosemary is just classic. Both are very delicious.



 


I only used half of the dough for facaccia, other other half for chorizo and thyme rolls - good thing that I had all the ingredients in the fridge, no way to get to the store!



 


The mixture of chorizo, onion and thyme was laminated into the dough as following:






 


Proof for 30 to 45min, cut into 4 parts before baking. If using the whole amount of dough, cut into 8 portions. Bake at 400F for about 20min.


Very rustic looking, very yummy.



 


Submitting to Yeastspotting.

gringogigante's picture
gringogigante

How do you "dry" a starter?

If I have a great starter and want to dry a small amount of it and freeze it for insurance, how do I "dry" it?

Pages