The Fresh Loaf

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Zeb's picture
Zeb

English Cider and Apple Bread

Here are a couple of pics of the bread as it turned out in the end on Sunday. It tasted lovely!




Joanna @ Zeb Bakes

tonia.g.white's picture
tonia.g.white

white whole wheat VS whole wheat

I found a recipe I would like to try for whole wheat pizza dough, but I just noticed it calls for WHITE whole wheat.  I understand the differences between the two (I believe), but can I substitute whole wheat in place of white whole wheat or will that mess up the chemistry of the baking process?  Should I add/take away something else to compensate? (It also calls for vital wheat gluten).


If you couldn't tell, I'm fairly new to baking.  I do appreciate any handy tips!

freerk's picture
freerk

I love dramatic breads!

Loved making the couronne bordelaise. Thank you Susan (susanfnp) for the very nice  "norwich sourdough". I'm still finding out the tweaks for European flour (I need to firm up the dough a little more), but it's a very nice dough to work with already! Also I need to give my starter a little more time, I was impatient :-)


 



 


and here a view of the crust


 



 


happy baking!!!


 


X Freerk


 

proth5's picture
proth5

Formula Development IV - You only try twice

It's a slow, agonizing sort of thing that I do.  (Especially being able to bake only once a week.  Hey, King Arthur Flour - if you need a full time high altitude test baker - call me!)  I would like to have the genius to throw many things in the bowl of My Preciousss confident that it will be good bread, but that is not me.  It never has been and I strongly suspect that it never will.  Even if the bread was delicious, I would pound myself with "what if I had done X or Y - would it be better?" No, better to stay single factor.


But I am nothing if not market driven (even overcoming my aversion to all acts photographic to post pictures of what I feel is much better described as "brown loaf - fine crumb") and so allowed myself to be influenced by cries for "More triticale, please!"


So I increased the percentage of tritcale to 20% of the total flour in a firm pre ferment. 


It was very informative. (That's never good...)


One thing to realize is like its cousin rye, triticale absorbs a lot of water.  Removing enough water  from that used to soak the oats to make a 60% hydration pre ferment with the triticale left me with an oat mixture that was wet enough to soak the oats, but not enough (even when the pre ferment was added) to create bread dough.


Did I achieve the elusive "hydration neutral?"  Hardly.  Once again there was no visible water, but the oatmeal mixture definitely gave up some moisture into the dough.  Ah yes, just what I needed - another ideal to struggle with! I'll have to tell the doctors at "The Place" about this...


 I had to add a full 8oz of water (in 2 oz increments) to get a somewhat tacky dough and I did need to mix for 8 minutes for the thing to come together.


The next thing that occurred is the dough still rose like gangbusters.  I spend time mulling over that I now have a dough that is weighted down with oatmeal and grain that has a reputation as one that won't support good rise in bread (I read that 50% triticale is an absolute upper limit) and it still rises like gangbusters.  I feel strongly that this will result in another ill conceived experiment with 100% triticale bread where I pre ferment a very high portion of the flour and bake it in a pan, but for now I must focus


In fact, there was some degradation in the quality of the crumb.  It was light and airy, but sliced thinly tore apart when buttered (unless toasted - it is delicious toasted).  And it was delicious, but not much more delicious than 10% which had a better crumb and nicer dough handling qualities.   Picture below - note the somewhat less sturdy crumb (if you can.)


So, another slow step forward only to decide that this time I went too far.


The bread wasn't bad, and to keep a complete log, I am presenting the formula in spite of its flaws.  But now I am going to stop a bit and remember what I was trying to accomplish: Take a simply made sandwich loaf (and there seem to be a lot of very small variants on the "oatmeal bread" in the baking literature), use some of the newer techniques to make it better, and use ingredients that might be more local to the Mountain West.   I have to lie to myself pretty much to claim that things like oats and triticale "could" be local.  Certainly they have wider growing ranges than the very fine, fine wheat that we produce on our high plains, but they are more adapted to cool, wet climates.  But oats are part of the original formula, triticale is my favorite, and there are times when my capacity for self deception is high. 


The formula:


Total Dough Wt

 

68.958

oz

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ingredients

 

 

Percent of Flour in Levain

0.2

 

Final Dough

 

 

 

%

Wt

UOM

%

WT

UOM

Ingredients

Wt

UOM

Total Flour

1

27

oz

1

5.4

oz

Total Flour

21.6

oz

KA AP Flour

0.8

24.3

oz

 

 

 

KA AP Flour

24.3

oz

Triticale Flour

0.2

2.7

 

1

5.4

oz

 

 

 

Water

0.42

11.34

 

0.6

3.24

oz

Water

8.1

 

Rolled Oats

0.17

4.59

oz

 

 

 

Rolled Oats

4.59

oz

Steel Cut Oats

0.11

2.97

oz

 

 

 

Steel Cut Oats

2.97

oz

Boiling water

0.62

16.74

oz

 

 

 

Boiling water

16.74

oz

Shortening(leaf lard)

0.04

1.08

oz

 

 

 

Shortening(leaf lard)

1.08

oz

Molasses

0.112

3.024

oz

 

 

 

Molasses

3.024

oz

Milk Powder

0.04

1.08

oz

 

 

 

Milk Powder

1.08

oz

Salt

0.028

0.756

oz

 

 

 

Salt

0.756

oz

Yeast

0.006

0.162

oz

 

 

 

Yeast

0.162

oz

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Seed

0.008

0.216

oz

0.04

0.216

oz

Levain

8.856

oz

Totals

2.554

68.958

oz

1.64

8.856

oz

 

71.658

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Combine the two types of oats, boiling water, milk powder and shortening.  Allow to cool to lukewarm. 

Add the salt, molasses, yeast, levain, and flour.  Mix 8 minutes on the single speed of the spiral mixer. Or use your preferred method of mixing.

Let rise until doubled - 2 hours at 78-80F.  Fold.  Let rise again - about 2 hours 78-80F.  (Note the change - it was too cold in my house to use cool room temperature)

Shape and place in greased pans.  Proof (1 hour) and bake at 375F for 40 minutes.  Remove from pans and cool on a rack

And the picture (of a brown loaf with a fine crumb...)

 Brown Loaf - fine crumb

But there are other ingredients to tweak (and using honey is just too obvious - or is it?) and the troublesome matter of "inclusions."  While not wanting to make a seedy, nutty bread (I actually have, as one of my 2011 formula goals such a thing, but not in this style) I ponder what might make a not too crunchy set of inclusions for a good "sammich" loaf.  I shall continue to ponder until I nail down next week's formula.

J.K.L.'s picture
J.K.L.

Sourdough Bao Zi or Mantou - anyone with experience?

I am gearing up to make some sourdough Bao Zi (chinese stuffed, steamed bun). Scoured the web and there's really hardly anybody doing something like that. Most of what I found were people using a quick yeasted dough with white flour. 


 


I want to try a whole wheat sourdough Bao zi or Mantou (steamed bun)!! 


 


But before I start with the experimenting, I wanted to gather any tips...Anybody tried steaming sourdough before? Or making a stuffed sourdough that was steamed or baked? Difference between using a whole wheat vs. white wheat vs. white whole wheat? 


 


Thanks! BTW, this is my first post and haven't properly introduced myself, but am glad to find this forum. Greetings to all! 

txfarmer's picture
txfarmer

SFBI Miche - A big one!


This miche is from David's wonderful post here. I didn't change a thing. Even kept the weight exactly same at 2KG, which makes it the biggest bread I've ever made. I debated using high extraction flour instead, but decided to use AP and WW as SFBI specified just to see how it will come out. Can you tell? I tried to draw Tic-Tac-Toe with my scoring pattern, kinda hard to see after being baked for so long.


 


The dough is wonderful to handle - soft and fluid which I love, but not too wet. Crumb is very open on the edge



 


But denser in the middle, which I expect from a miche this size.



 


Crackling singing crust. It was a mess to cut because the crust was flying everywhere!



 


We had it for dinner, after out of oven for 8 hours. Crust is thick and chewy, crumb is moist (cool) and spongy in the middle. Not very sour. Less flavorful than my previous miche made from high extraction flour, but the texture is just perfect. Of course I do expect the flavor to deepen by tomorrow and the day after. I think I will make the formula again using high extraction flour just to compare.



 


David, thanks for a great formula. This is a good base to tweak from. Other than different flour combo, I would like to try larger size. I THINK my baking stone and oven can take a 3KG one, we'll see...



 


Submitting to Yeastspotting.

breadsong's picture
breadsong

Luminita Cirstea’s Raisin-Rye (courtesy of farine-mc)

Hello everyone,
Farine featured Luminita Cirstea in a 'Meet the Baker' post on her website.
Ms. Cirstea's courage, hard work, commitment and talent are so inspiring!
I so wanted to try making Ms. Cirstea's delicious-looking (and prize-winning!) Raisin-Rye bread.
With thanks to Farine for writing about Ms. Cirstea, and thanks to Ms. Cirstea for her efforts to develop this formula!

(Rye bread is new territory for me - I found lots of helpful information here on TFL posted by Andy, breadbakingbassplayer, dmsnyder, Elagins & Mini (thanks! to all)).

Here's a picture of the raisins (so pretty!):


After baking, my bread resembles a Mexican Chocolate Crackle cookie I recently baked: 

                               Raisin-rye bread                             ... or...                               Cookie?  :^)    
  

Crumb shot (I love the flavor, and the golden raisins that light up the crumb; a lovely reminder of Luminita and her beautiful first name!):



 


For one 1000g loaf (my interpretation of Ms. Cirstea's formula):

 

 

Liquid Levain

Levain

Dough

Total

Baker's
%

Bread flour

59

 

 

59

16%

Rye flour, whole

3

149

150

302

84%

Rye meal, coarse

 

 

50

50

14%

Water

62

100

179

341

83%

Salt

 

2

7.3

9.3

2.3%

Starter

25

 

 

25

 

Liquid Levain

 

149

 

 

 

Levain

 

 

400

 

 

Dark Raisins

 

 

107

107

 

Golden Raisins

 

 

107

107

 

Total

149

400

1000

1000

 


 

(1) Raise Liquid Levain, 12 hours at room temperature.

Cover raisins with cold water, soak 10 minutes, drain, keep overnight in covered container.

(2) Mix Levain, speed 1 for 4 minutes. Bulk Ferment 90 minutes.

(3) Add all dough ingredients. Mix 5 minutes medium speed.

Add soaked raisins, mix low speed just until incorporated.

Bulk ferment 90 minutes.

Dust baskets heavily with rye flour.

Scale by dipping your hands in warm water. This dough is very wet.

Allow to proof, room temperature, 30-40 minutes.

No scoring.

Steam heavily; vent after 5 minutes.

Bake 480F for 45 minutes.




I'm including some pictures taken during fermentation (not sure if I did a proper job or not!).

The second Levain was to bulk ferment for 90 minutes.
Here is what it looked like at that point (I was unsure if it showed evidence of enough fermentation):
 

I proceeded with mixing by hand after the 90-minute bulk ferment, substituting an equal weight of whole-rye flour for the rye meal.
After the mix, the dough temperature was 73F:
 


I thought the dough was on the cool side heading into bulk fermentation (Mr. Hamelman recommends in the low 80's for a dough of this type).
The dough was to bulk ferment for 90 minutes but I let it go two hours, and tried to warm the dough by raising the temperature in the proof box.
After 1 hour of bulk fermentation, the dough's temperature had increased to 78F; after the second hour of bulk fermentation, the dough's temperature had increased to 88F).
Through the plastic container, I could see little air bubbles forming. The appearance of the dough after bulk fermentation:
 

The dough was quite sticky, so I didn't take a picture of the shaped loaf (my hands at that point were absolutely covered in rye paste!).
The dough after 40 minutes of proofing (some cracks starting to appear):
  


I baked at 480F for the full 45 minutes and left the loaf in for 10 more minutes with the oven off and door ajar. 

The loaf sat for 16 hours before slicing. It's a really crusty loaf but the crumb is moist and tender.
We enjoyed a beautiful breakfast this morning, thanks to this bread - the flavor is wonderful!

Happy Baking everyone! from breadsong







        

 

louie brown's picture
louie brown

Oatmeal Maple Bread and More Baguettes: Mishaps, Mistakes and Lessons Learned

Thanks are due at the top to Farine-MC for her charming blog and its marvelous, useful content, and also to breadsong, scoring master and exemplary baker.


In brief, I neglected to take account of the very low humidity in New York City right now. My maple oatmeal was both too stiff and underproofed. Yes, I made the same mistake two weeks ago with another loaf. Now I have two striked against me, so I hope that atleast it will be something different that I overlook next time. The effects of the underproofing are clear on the batard.


I didn't dare try to duplicate breadsong's perfect scoring on her loaf, so I opted to try chevron scoring for the first time. Not bad, although I think there should be a clearer "spine" down the center of the loaf, the scores beginning closer to the center line, in other words.


The bread itself is rich, fairly light in texture, all things considered, and, as breadsong has said, with a sweet background that isn't specifically identifiable as maple. It went very well with blue cheeses and goat cheeses.


I'm glad I made this bread for the lessons it provided.


Following that, baguettes based on Pat's 65% formula. This time, I did adjust for the humidity with some extra water. However, it seems that at some point in the bake, I brushed the touch panel of the oven and turned it off without hearing the little beep because the opera was on. So when I returned to the oven, it showed 227F, and a couple of very pale baguettes. With no choice but to carry on, I cranked up the oven and finished the bake. Again, no beauty contest winners, but quite serviceable and tasty.


I include another side by side shot of the two loaves sliced, as well as a repeat of last week's side by side, so you can see the very wet baguette from txfarmer again. These baguettes are more than 15 points apart in hydration.







and last week again:



Apologies for the ongoing green cast photos. My little cybershot can't decide if it wants to white balance for fluorescent or incandescent light.


 

GSnyde's picture
GSnyde

SpudBuns (Sourdough Potato Rolls)


I wanted to make a sandwich roll that had some substance both for chew and to hold up under moist sandwich ingredients, but something tender enough to be compressible.  I’d been meaning to try a bread with some potatoes in it, as I’d heard that potatoes add some tenderness to the crumb (and every crumb needs a little tenderness).


I looked in several baking books and all over TFL.  I settled on the Sourdough Potato Bread that Prairie19 posted about back in 2007 (http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/3886/sourdough-potato-bread), which was described as a sourdough version of Hamelman’s Roasted Potato Bread.


I mostly followed Prairie19’s formula, except I didn’t have the extra night to retard the dough. And instead of bread flour, I used Central Milling’s Organic Artisan Baker’s Craft flour, along with some fine ground organic whole wheat flour from my market’s bulk bins.


I found the formula very straightforward.  The dough was easy to work with.  Somewhat loose, but trainable with appropriate discipline.  Since these rolls were made to surround Salmon Teriyaki, I sprinkled them with sesame seeds when they were shaped, since every one knows that sesames are Salmon Teriyaki’s favorite seeds.  


The rolls came out very nicely.  The crumb and crust are tenderer than lean sourdough bread, but by no means wonderbread soft.  I was hoping for a slightly softer roll. Maybe I’ll try this formula but with a bit of milk in place of some of the water.  The potato flavor is scarcely noticeable.  The flavor is nice, a bit sour, but unremarkable (ok, I’ve been eating great miche, so what can you expect?).


 


IMG_2090


IMG_2093


Though the rolls were not perfect, the Salmon Teriyaki was pretty close.  And the sandwiches (with garlic-lemon sauce and cukes) went down good with a nice pale ale.


IMG_2094


This is a very nice sourdough roll.  I’d enjoy a full sized loaf, too.


The formula is on the page linked above.  I used the same quantities for 6 rolls.


Enjoy!


Glenn

 

sprouted bread baker's picture
sprouted bread baker

calling all sprouted wheat bread bakers

Hi,


I want to host a conference/gathering for bakers of sprouted wheat breads. Commercial bakers and home bakers. Anyone who has been working to perfect the wonderful breads that are derived from sprouted wheat. At Columbia County Breads, we buy our wheat from local organic farmers and bake our sprouted whole grain breads in Bloomsburg, Pennsylvania - about two and a half hours due west from NYC. 


If you're at all interested, please contact me as we would love to host a yearly gathering to share information, techniques, tips and breads and dispel myths and false claims about sprouting and sprouting techniques. The time frame for this gathering is likely to be fall of 2011 but no date has been set.


Thanks so much,


Doug


baker


columbia county bread & granola


www.columbiacountybread.com


baker@columbiacountybread.com


 

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