The Fresh Loaf

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isand66's picture

Buttermilk Sour Cream Oat Sourdough Tangzhong Rolls

I have made sourdough rolls using the Tangzhong method before and they usually come out great.  I decide to change it up a bit and used buttermilk instead of cream or milk and added some sour cream for an added flavor boost.  I also added some fresh parmesan cheese and used rolled oats, white rye and spelt flour to try to make it a little healthy.

I have to say when these were baking the whole house smelled amazing.

The final rolls came out nice and fluffy and soft but with a ton of flavor.  One bad thing about working from home is the temptation to eat and I have to say I sampled way too many of these rolls when they were done.




Note: Tangzhong consisted of 50 grams Bread Flour and 250 grams heavy cream.  I included this in the overall formula below.

Levain Directions

Mix all the levain ingredients together for about 1 minute and cover with plastic wrap.  Let it sit at room temperature for around 7-8 hours or until the starter has doubled.  I usually do this the night before.

Either use in the main dough immediately or refrigerate for up to 1 day before using.

 Main Dough Procedure

Prepare the Tangzhong.   Use a  5 to 1 liquid to solid ratio (so 250g liquid to 50g flour) and mix it together in a pan.  Heat the pan while stirring constantly.  Initially it will remain a liquid, but as you approach 65C it will undergo a change and thicken to an almost pudding like consistency.  Take it off the heat and let it cool before using it in your recipe.  Some people will refrigerate it for a while but you can use it right away as soon as it cools..

Mix the flours, Tangzhong, rolled oats and buttermilk together in your mixer or by hand until it just starts to come together, maybe about 1 minute.  Let it rest in your work bowl covered for 20-30 minutes.  Next add the salt, starter (cut into about 7-8 pieces), sour cream, eggs, cheese and butter  and mix on low for a minute.   Mix for a total of 6 minutes in your mixer starting on low-speed and working your way up to speed #2 for the last 4 minutes.  Remove the dough from your bowl and place it in a lightly oiled bowl or work surface and do several stretch and folds.  Let it rest covered for 10-15 minutes and then do another stretch and fold.  Let it rest another 10-15 minutes and do one additional stretch and fold.  After a total of 2 hours place your covered bowl in the refrigerator and let it rest for 12 to 24 hours.

When you are ready to bake remove the bowl from the refrigerator and let it set out at room temperature still covered for 1.5 to 2 hours.  Remove the dough and cut into equal size pieces and shape into rolls.  Place on a baking sheet lined with parchment paper and cover with moist tea towels or plastic wrap sprayed with cooking spray.


The dough will take 1.5 to 2 hours depending on your room temperature.  Let the dough dictate when it is read to bake not the clock.

Around 45 minutes before ready to bake, pre-heat your oven to 500 degrees F. and prepare it for steam.  I have a heavy-duty baking pan on the bottom rack of my oven with 1 baking stone on above the pan and one on the top shelf.  I pour 1 cup of boiling water in the pan right after I place the dough in the oven.

Right before you are ready to put them in the oven, using a simple egg wash or heavy cream or milk, brush each roll and sprinkle on your topping of choice (I used dried scallions).  Next add 1 cup of boiling water to your steam pan or follow your own steam procedure.


After 1 minute lower the temperature to 425 degrees.  Bake for 35 minutes until the crust is nice and brown.

Take the rolls out of the oven when done and let them cool on a bakers rack before for at least 2 hours before eating.


Where oh where is Max hiding??
Grandpa Larry's picture
Grandpa Larry

My Daily Bread

About a month ago I ran across the website "The Italian Dish" which contained a post titled Amazing Artisan Bread for 40 Cents a Loaf - No Kneading, No Fussing, No Kidding.

This is the author's take on the no knead bread baking technique and the book: Artisan Bread in Five Minutes a Day.

As most cooks do, I modified the recipe and technique to suit my own schedule and the ingredients on hand and came up with a method I've been employing in my bread and pizza baking. The basic recipe is:

5 cups flour (usually half AP and half bread flour)

2 cups water

1 Tbl. sugar

1 Tbl salt

1 tsp. instant yeast

I have experimented by varying the types of flour, including semolina for a portion of it and using honey in place of sugar.

I mix these ingredients by hand into a pretty shaggy dough, which I allow to rise until doubled. I then place the container into the fridge.for at least 24 hours. The longer, the better. After it comes to room temperature I shape it into a loaf or pizza and bake.

Lately I've been pouring 3 or 4 tablespoons of olive oil over the dough when I place it in the fridge. I don't wash the container between batches.

The bread resulting from this dough, with or without olive oil, with or without semolina, most closely resembles and tastes like ciabatta. It is very, very good. The longer it ferments, the better the flavor. I wish I had a larger container.

The quality of the bread as well as the ease with which it's achieved has made me a happy baker.

I'll experiment further and report.

Abelbreadgallery's picture

Guinness bread

gcook17's picture

Type 70 Flour Bread from SFBI

Here's formula and video for a really good bread from the folks at the San Francisco Baking institute:
This thing crashes every time I try to paste a URL into the post so here is just the important part of the URL:

golgi70's picture

50% whole grain Meesh Batards

In full attempts to make a couple Miche to eat this week I setup and then realized i didn't have my round brotforms.  So I just continue and made small batards.  

50 % Whole Grain Meesh Batards

50.25%% White, 27.75% white wheat, 20% rye 2 % bran toasted
81.3% hydration (Bran and soaking water are both considered flour and h20)

Rye Starter
50 Starter
90 Wheat
10 Rye
100 White
180 H20
22 toasted bran soaked in 75 g h20

{800 Flour Total}
200 Hard White Wheat
200 Rye
400 white

570 H20
21.6 Salt (pink himilayan sea salt)


Autolyse 1 hour (hold out 10% of h20)

Add levain salt and bran soak and mix until a dough is formed rest 10 minutes, 

slap and folds until dough stops giving. rest repeat until medium devlopment.  this took me about an hour.  

Follow with 3 single letter folds at 30 minutes.  rest 1 hour.  

divide at 610 g rest 30 minutes

Shape coat in raw bran and proof in basket. My kitchen was 80 at this point with the oven heating during midday and the dough was between 75-76 the whole way.  Proof 2 hours

bake with steam at 500 for 9 minutes remove steam and lower to 460 bake 15-20 more rotating half way through



dmsnyder's picture

Sourdough Honey Whole Wheat Multigrain Bread with PEF


Sourdough Honey Whole Wheat Multi-grain Bread with PEF

August 26, 2013


About three months ago, I baked a multi-grain sourdough bread based on my San Francisco-style Sourdough that we really liked. (See Sourdough Honey Whole Wheat Multigrain Bread) That bake used the last of the multi-grain mix I had ordered from King Arthur Flour. I waited for one of KAF's “free shipping” deals and, last week, got a new supply of “Harvest Grains.”

In the meantime, I was intrigued by Franko's bake of a beautiful bread that used a sprouted spelt flour product from British Columbia. (See Local Flours) I was surprised and delighted to find that my local Whole Foods Market carried both sprouted whole wheat and sprouted whole spelt flours from the same source.


Today I baked a couple boules of SD Honey Whole Wheat Multi-grain breads using sprouted whole wheat flour from One Degree Organic Foods. Oh, what does “PEF” mean? It is an abbreviation for “performance enhancing flour.” I'm sure if bread baking followed the same rules as sports, it would be banned.

I used exactly the same formula as I had on my last bake of this bread, except that I substituted the One Degree sprouted whole wheat flour for the Giusto's Fine Whole Wheat Flour I used previously. I found that the sprouted wheat flour absorbed less water than the non-sprouted WW flour, and it fermented much, much faster. These differences were entirely predictable from the caveats provided by Andy (ananda on TFL) in Franko's topic, cited above. Flour made from sprouted grain has less protein (because protease enzymes  are activated) and generates free simple sugars from starch faster (because amylase enzymes are also activated).

 It was clear, once the final dough started mixing, that what had been a “rather slack” dough was now downright gloppy. I gave it some thought but decided not to add more flour. I did mix the dough for 10 minutes rather than 6 minutes to get partial gluten development. I had planned on fermenting for 2 1/2 or 3 hours, but, by 1 hour in my 75 dF kitchen, the dough was gassy and expanded by over 50%. I did one more S&F in the bowl, gave the dough another 30 minutes and then divided it, shaped two boules and retarded them overnight to bake the next morning. I baked the loaves 5 minutes longer than previously to make sure the wet dough was well-cooked inside and because the crust color was not as dark as I expected after 30 minutes baking.


Total dough

Bakers' %

Wt (g)

AP flour



Bread flour



Medium Rye flour



Sprouted WW Flour






KAF “Harvest Grains”













Stiff levain

Bakers' %

Wt (g)

Bread flour



Medium rye flour






Stiff starter







  1. Dissolve the starter in the water. Add the flours and mix thoroughly until the flour has been completely incorporated and moistened.

  2. Ferment at room temperature for 6-12 hours, depending on starter vigor, room temperature, etc..



Bakers' %

Wt (g)

KAF “Harvest Grains”



Water (Boiling






  1. Just before mixing the autolyse, put the “Harvest Grains” blend in a medium-sized bowl and pour the boiling water over it. Cover.

  2. Allow to soak during the autolyse (see below).


Final dough

Wt (g)

AP flour


Sprouted WW Flour










Stiff levain





  1. In a stand mixer, mix the flours and water at low speed until they form a shaggy mass.

  2. Cover and autolyse for 30 minutes

  3. Add the salt, honey, soaker and levain and mix at low speed for 2-3 minutes, then increase the speed to medium (Speed 2 in a KitchenAid) and mix for 10 minutes. The dough should be very slack.

  4. Place the dough in a lightly oiled bowl and cover tightly.

  5. Ferment at 70º F for 1 1/2 to 2 hours (or until expanded 75% and gassy) with a stretch and folds in the bowl every 30 minutes for the first 2 hours.

  6. Divide the dough into two equal pieces.

  7. Pre-shape as rounds and rest, covered, for 10 minutes.

  8. Shape as boules or bâtards and place in bannetons. Place bannetons in plastic bags.

  9. Proof at room temperature (68-70º F) for 30-60 minutes.

  10. Cold retard the loaves overnight.

  11. The next morning, proof the loaves for 1 1/2 hours.

  12. 45-60 minutes before baking, pre-heat the oven to 480º F with a baking stone and steaming apparatus in place.

  13. Transfer the loaves to a peel. Score the loaves as desired, turn down the oven to 460º F, steam the oven, and transfer the loaves to the baking stone.

  14. After 15 minutes, remove the steaming apparatus, and turn down the oven to 435º F/Convection. (If you don't have a convection oven, leave the temperature at 460º F.)

  15. Bake for another 15-20 minutes.

  16. Leave in turned off oven with the door ajar for 15 minutes.

  17. Transfer the loaves to a cooling rack, and cool thoroughly before slicing.


The loaves had rather little oven spring. Since I do not think they were over-proofed, I wonder if they were over-fermented. This would also explain the lighter crust color than when un-sprouted whole wheat flour was used. With a slightly longer bake, they did develop the nice reddish-dark brown crust color I favor in sourdough hearth loaves. 

Addendum 8/27/2013: The morning after they were baked, I sliced and tasted one of the loaves.

The bread was tasted un-toasted and toasted, with almond butter and almond butter plus apricot preserves, by two independent jurors. 

DMS: On slicing, the crumb was denser than expected, although still reasonably open for a 50% WW with all those seeds, flakes and cracked grains. The crust was pretty thick and crunchy. The crumb was moist. Un-toasted, my first impression of the aroma and of the flavor was "sour rye." I would never have identified this as a whole wheat bread on a blind tasting. When toasted, the bread had an unique flavor - no longer really reminiscent of sour rye, but not of whole wheat either. There was a moderate sourdough tang. There was less sweet flavor than with non-sprouted WW. With almond butter and preserves, it was pretty good but didn't knock my socks off.

SGS: First impression on slicing: "Whoah! Substantial." On first tasting un-toasted, she commented on some un-identifiable flavor which she didn't really like. She thought it might be the sunflower seeds in the Harvest Grains mix. When toasted with almond butter, she remarked on the sourness, which was more than she liked. When she added apricot preserves, she pronounced it improved. "Okay, but I'd prefer it less dense. ... Don't stop making it!"

Conclusion: This bread has a really unique flavor that is quite different from breads made with un-sprouted whole wheat flour. Whether this flavor is really from the sprouted grain or is partly from the Harvest Grains, I'm not sure. There are other whole wheat breads we prefer to this one, but it may be worth tweaking.

I am thinking that, if I bake this bread again using sprouted WW flour, I will use a smaller levain inoculation to prolong the bulk fermentation and substitute a stronger bread flour for the AP flour. But before that I should  make a yeasted 100% whole wheat bread with the sprouted WW flour to see how that tastes. And before that, I should see what I can find out from other's experience with this product.


greedybread's picture

Fabulous Greedybread Focaccia-


Woo what a mouthful! Ciao Ciao Ciabatta!!


freshly made!

It’s hard to find a GOOD ciabatta.

Sure, there are lots around BUT are they good?

Mainly no.

The texture and the taste needs to be right and in honesty, it’s not the easiest bread to make:)




Normally I use and experiment with my most revered bread baker’s recipe, Carol Field’s Ciabatta or one of Peter Reinhart‘s…

BUT this recipe, is the GREEDYBREAD of all Greedybreadness!!

Woo, what a mouthful!!

Fabulicious and all that Greedy stuff!

Please note : this is a 2 day affair:) or at least overnight…no one night stands with this bread!

 I will stop rambling and let you enjoy this baby!!

its full glory!


80% hydration, lots of hydration with this bread.


I am not shouting or think anyone is dumb BUT this is important and I say it because I myself think I know best and have added more flour.

Not a good look:)

What will you need? (in 2 parts)

Pinch of yeast.

200 mls of warm water

3/4 of a cup  of Bread Flour or High protein Flour

1/3 cup of Plain flour

2 tsp of rye flour

2 tsp of wholemeal flour.

Just want to say, if you can get unbleached flour, do so.

Don’t want to sound pretentious but it makes for better bread.

If doesn’t need to be lovingly hand milled by the monks on some far forgotten Hinterland…

Just unbleached, not golden filagree yeast or anything:)

Unbleached is best for yeasty things:) as bleach plays round with the flour proteins which then affects the bread.

Lesson over, promise!

Starter plus !


Dissolve yeast in the warm water and allow to get frothy.

Mix all flours together in a bowl.

Add in yeasty mix and mix well.

This is quite dry, so don’t be alarmed.

Cover and leave for 24-36 hours…

yep, flour the tea towel!


After 24 hours, uncover and get ready to work it!

You will need your biga from above

A pinch of salt

1 tsp of yeast

3/4 cup of warm water

1 tsp malt powder.

1 & 1/4 cup of Bread flour.

bread on the tea towel


Dissolve yeast in the warm water and allow to become frothy as before):

Combine all dry ingredients .

Add yeasty mix to the biga and then add to the dry ingredients.

Use a mixer if possible.

Use the paddle on your mixer, this is VERY VERY hard to knead by hand because it is so wet.

Mix for about 5-6 minutes.

If it seems dry, add a little more water.

Put dough in an oiled bowl and cover.

Turn every 20 minutes for four times and then leave until doubled, usually about 90-120 mins after the last turn.

a wee rest


Flour a tea towel and then turn gloopy dough onto the tea towel.

I used the tea towel to work the dough, rolling it from side to side.

You want to stretch it out and then fold it three times.

Take one end, fold in a third, do the other end and then fold on top of one another.

Like an envelope, or a ‘slipper’!

Sort of slipper ish?


Flour the top of the dough and put tea towel over it and leave to prove for 45 minutes.

Preheat the oven now to 220-230 Celsius.

I have , as you can see , been using a dutch oven.

The bread is not proved in the dutch oven though.

The bread goes in the dutch oven , minutes before it goes into the oven.

Alternatively if you don’t have a dutch oven, when proving is finished, working quickly, place bread onto a baking tray that is well oiled.

Place bread in the oven and bake for 35-45 minutes, depending on your oven.

It needs to be quite brown.

Lid on, in the oven!! No peeking!!


If you use a dutch oven, make sure the lid is on tight.

No peeking for 20 minutes, then remove the lid for final 20 minutes and allow to get brown.

Remove from oven when done and allow to cool on a rack or in the dutch oven first for a bit, then a rack.

This is gorgeous and so nice when warm…

Very crusty crust!

Gorgeous holey crumb.

The holey texture is what you want!


half done...


P1110247 (800x600)






holey moley


have a slice or three!




Adapted ever so slightly from Craig Ponsford original Ciabatta recipe.

Did you like this bread?

Have you tried my other Ciabatta?

Rewena Bread?


Garfagnana Potato Bread?

P1030636 (1024x768)


jmax2013's picture

Subway bread forms for sale

Hello all,newbie to the forum here.I stumbled across this site while trying to find a fair market value for subway bread forms.i won 3 cases of new 5 loaf forms totaling 36 and 16 gently used ones at a local auction house here in indianapolis indiana.i am a picker by trade but have never had any of these before.anyhow from what i have found as far as prices go on these they retail for almost $50 each new.i am willing to part with them for $20 each with free shipping to the lower 48 states only.that is for a brand new never used form.i will take $16 each for the used ones also with free shipping.i accept paypal and personal paypal account is verified and i am a premier member.if interested reply to the post with contact info and i will get back with you asap...........thanks all you bread gurus.....

DEREKLJ's picture


Thank you so much to all of you who gave me some really good advice with making these rolls.

It's only taken me just over a year of disaster after disaster.

I think I now know where I was going wrong.

1) My dough was'nt the right consistency.

2) On the second proofing I left them too long.

3) the covering on the second proofing was too heavy and squashed the rolls down.

4) the oven was on 140c instead of 200c

The only problem I have now is that the rolls are tasting quite bland.

Any ideas please ?

Thank you all again


dabrownman's picture

Multi-grain Sourdough with Figs, Walnuts, Whey and 4 Seeds

We took last week's more tame bake and decided to gussie it up some.  There is just no way to hold my apprentice back when it comes to gussieness.  She decided to add some walnuts and re-hydrated black mission figs (one of our favorite combinations for fruit and nuts in bread) and some pumpkin and sunflowers seeds


These new additions went along with last week’s ground sesame and flax seeds, Toadies, red and white malts and VWG.  We cut back on some of the whey and white whole wheat flour and replaced them with more water and our special mix of 75% extraction home ground flour consisting of 25% rye, 25% spelt and 25% Kamut and 25% farro.


Since we again used the 25% sifted out bran portion to feed a smaller levain, we ended up with 85% whole grain bread instead of 100% like last week.  With all the fruit, nut and seed additions, I didn’t honk that Lucy would notice that some of the whole grain was missing.  We need some sifted bran and middlings for the next batch of Toadies.


Even though the 85% hydration was the same as last week’s bake the dough felt more wet and sticky.  This was probably due to some of the whole gain missing and that the re-hydrated figs may have carried some extra water with them.  In any even the dough was more slack for sure and hopefully this will open the crumb some more and still provide proper lift.


We followed a similar method to last week with one exception. We built the levain on Tuesday instead of Wednesday so that it could sit in the fridge for 48 hours to get more sour.  Since all of the whole grain bits were in the levain we autolysed the dough flours for 3 hours while the levain was warming up and finishing in final doubling.  The levain was refrigerated when it showed a 25% volume increase after the 3rd feeding.


We did 12 minutes of slap and folds since the dough felt slacker.  We incorporated the ground sesame and flax seeds, along with pumpkin and sunflower seeds, during the first set of (3) S&F’s that were performed 20 minutes apart.  The figs and the walnuts went in on the 2nd set and by the end of the 3rd set everything was well distributed.


After a short 15 minute rest the dough was pre-shaped and then shaped into a short squat batard to fit our oval basket and then it was placed into a used trash can liner and immediately retarded in the fridge for 20 1/2 hours.  It wasn’t quite were we wanted it when it came out of the fridge so we let it warm upon the counter an hour.


The dough was then un-molded on the parchment covered mini broiler top, slashed and  placed into the 500 F preheated mini oven that was steaming with 2 of Sylvia’s steaming cups and a ¼ cup of water thrown into the bottom of the mini oven as the door was closed.  Three minutes later we turned the oven own to 475 F.


We let the bread steam for 16 minutes before removing Sylvia’s steam generators and turning the oven down to 425 F, convection.   We rotated the bread every 5 minutes and in 25 minutes the bread tested 203 F when it was removed to a cooling rack.  So, this time the total bake was 41 minutes.


The bread bloomed OK but didn’t spring that much.  It might have been over proofed a little bit. It must have been that extra half and hour in the cold.  It browned well and had the crust that the mini oven puts on bread nearly every time but without the blisters.  The kitchen smelled like bake day for sure even without any aromatic seeds in the mix  - I knew my apprentice forgot something!

This bread is one that you won't forget.  Earthy, nutty, seedy, with a hint of sweet figs.... just plain tasty.  The crust is boldly baked, thick and it stayed crunchy too.  the crumb is soft moist and fairly open for a near whole grain bread with lots of stuff in it.  If you are all alone on a deserted island, this is the bread you want to have in your knapsack.  It made one of the tastiest grilled chicken sandwiches with the typical fruits and veggies, some pickled veg from the sausages last night and a slice of brie - Yummy!


Brunch with this bread the next morning.  Delicious!


Build 1

Build 2

 Build 3



Multigrain SD Starter






25% Extracted Bran
























Multigrain SD Levain






























Levain % of Total












Dough Flour






75% Extraction Multigrain






White Whole Wheat






Dough Flour


















Whey 135






Dough Hydration












Total Flour






Whey 135 & Water






T. Dough Hydration






% Whole Grain Flour












Hydration w/ Adds






Total Weight












Add - Ins






Red Malt






White Malt












Ground Flax & Sesame Seeds






Re-hydrated Figs












Pumpkin 25 & Sunflower Seeds






VW Gluten


















75% extraction multi-grain is: 25% kamut,




 25% Farro, 25%, spelt & 25% rye