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paulheels's picture
paulheels

Need some clarification on amount of Starter

I have been baking bread and cinnamon rolls using a potato flake starter, This starter has been alive fore three generations, almost 100 years.  It made me want to delve into the world of a flour based starter.  I am mostly a lurker on the board, I do alot more reading than I do posting.  I began my starter about a week ago.  I was running around 100% hydration.  Note: I do not have scales yet, getting them this week, so I am still using volume.  

I had app 1 cup of starter.  It was not doubling in size, I was feeding everyday.  Yesterday I poured out half a cup of my starter, discarded the rest.  I then mixex 1/2 cup flour and 1/4 cup of water.  Oh boy did that make it go crazy!  so i fed again today with the same amounts.  The starter seems to be headed in  the right direction, I am going to cotinu feeding for another week the same I have been doing.  In reading so may posts about beginning a starter, I found one over riding piece of advice from jsut aobut everyone; BE PATIENT!  That is what i have been doing.  so thanks to everyone for that advice.  Now I need some more.

I have see where people  keep a small amount of starter.  I am a little confused as to how this works.  I have read alot of posts, but nothing is really clicking for me yet.  I have recipes that call for 1 cup of starter.  That is the exact amount of starter I have.  How would I go about doing this?  I guess I need this explained in dumb country boy terms! haha.  I am country.  

Thanks for the help again.  Hopefully going to be making some bread next week.  Gonna let the starter get well established.  hopefully it is by this coming weekend, I am heading out of town and will have to put it in the fridge.

 

Paul

ds99302's picture
ds99302

Just testing (semi-annual Danish pastry bonanza)

SarahZE's picture
SarahZE

Bread Chemistry Question - My pav is flat!

Hi there,


I'm new to the forum, but I've been an avid fan of The Fresh Loaf for quite a while.  My father was a professional baker for quite some time, and I've picked up the "baking bug" from him.


I have a question about a recipe that I just formulated.  I am trying to make reasonable "ladi pav" (also known as "pao").  They're basically soft buns with a relatively soft but golden crust.  The closest comparison would be decent hamburger buns.  I used the following ingredients:


3 cups maida, 2 tsp instant yeast, 1.5 tsp sugar, 1/2 cup water, 1 cup milk, 1.5 tbsp butter, 1.25 tsp salt


I proofed the yeast in the water, into which I'd dissolved the sugar.  I mixed the flour (maida) and salt in a separate bowl, and once the yeast had done its thing, I poured that, the milk, and the melted (but not hot) butter into the flour mixture and mixed well.  I kneaded it with quite a lot more maida (I would say that I added at least another cup, most likely a cup to a cup and a half) - it was exceedingly wet and sticky, and I couldn't have kneaded for a full ten minutes without that much of an addition.


It was still quite soft and a bit sticky by the end of ten minutes' kneading.  I greased a bowl and proofed the dough for two hours.  It rose very well. 


I punched it, kneaded it a few times without any additional flour, and formed it into eight small balls. The dough was still quite soft, but not very sticky. I let this rise for just under an hour - again, it rose very well.  I baked the buns at 365 F (approximate) for 35 minutes.  They baked through properly, and tasted quite nice, but I'd like to improve the recipe in the following ways:


-make them softer and moister


-make them hold their shape better (they spread out quite a lot), and rise a bit higher


 


Any suggestions at all would be fantastic! 
Thanks in advance,


Sarah


 

Penhaligon's picture
Penhaligon

Problems with Baguette Rolling and Oven Spring

Hi all, long-time lurker and first-time poster here. I've been having a few problems with my baguettes (Anis Bouabsa's recipe) and I wonder if someone here would be kind enough to help me figure out what I'm doing wrong. I've made them 3 or 4 times so far, but I consistently have the same 2 problems.


First, I cannot for the life of me roll the shaped dough out! It's not just me being overly gentle with it, either; the divided logs are very, very resistant to elongation, and snap back to short blobs following even the most heavy-handed attempts to roll them out and lengthen them. It kills me to do it, but I eventually have to resort to pulling on them from each end if I want them to be long and skinny! I'm not sure why they're like that, as I'm letting the dough rest, proof, etc. at all the right times.


Second, I always get a pretty dense, hardly holey/waxy crumb, a crust too light in color, and essentially zero oven spring -- they come out the same size as when I put them in! I think I'm not turning up my oven to a high enough temperature (~425F); should I really set it to 500F? I heard somewhere that that's the key to getting these baguettes to explode during baking.


I am using KAF Bread Flour and SAF Red Instant Yeast (along with a bit of diastatic malt powder, too.) For what it's worth, I am not using a couche, either. Maybe that has something to do with the first issue. Anyway, if anyone could help me out, I would really appreciate it. Thanks!

ananda's picture
ananda

Baking with All-British Flour

 


DSCF2125Baking with All-British FlourDSCF2144


Given that Rye Flour is not so common in UK shops as Wheat Flour, when one finds it, it is far more likely to be of British origin, and often, Organic too.   The Bacheldre Organic Dark Rye Flour from a Welsh watermill is now the only flour I use to keep my rye sourdough culture properly fed.   It is very dark, coarse, highly fermentable and thirsty, and produces breads of outstanding flavour.   The Doves Farm Organic Light Rye is less impressive in these areas, but, its performance in producing a better dough structure is undeniable.


DSCF2131DSCF2132


I'm trying to work towards using my local miller as a source for all the wheatflour I use at home.   It means karting 7kg of flour at a time on the train back home, but I am feeling the need to move away from relying on industrially-milled flour, and come up with exceptional bread quality on all levels, using locally-grown organic flour from traditional sources.   I achieved mixed success with this round of baking, but have produced much that I am very happy with, and a clear direction of the changes needed to induce improvement, and ultimately, fulfilment in the project.


DSCF2127DSCF2129


•1.    All-British flour and 2 LeavensDSCF2138


Here is the formula for a bread dough raised with 2 leavens, and using only British Organic flour from traditional sources.



Material

Formula [% of flour]

Recipe [grams]

1. Rye Sour Elaboration 1

 

 

Stock Rye Sourdough

 

20

Bacheldre Organic Dark Rye Flour

 

60

Water

 

100

TOTAL

 

180

 

 

 

2. Wheat Levain Elaboration 1

 

 

Stock Wheat Levain

 

54

Gilchesters Organic Pizza Flour

 

100

Water

 

60

TOTAL

 

214

 

 

 

3. Rye Sour Elaboration 2

 

 

Elaboration 1 [above]

 

180

Bacheldre Organic Dark Rye Flour

 

150

Water

 

250

TOTAL

29.63

580

 

 400g retained

180g returned to stock

4. Wheat Levain Elaboration 2

 

 

Elaboration 1 [above]

 

214

Gilchesters Organic Pizza Flour

 

200

Water

 

120

TOTAL

35.56

534

 

 480g retained

54g returned to stock

5. FINAL DOUGH

 

 

Rye Sourdough [above, 3.]

29.63

[11.11flour, 18.52water]

400

Wheat Levain [above, 4]

35.56

[22.22flour, 13.34water]

480

Gilchesters Organic Pizza Flour

48.15

650

Gilchesters Organic Farmhouse Flour

18.52

250

Salt

1.2

16

Water

38.14

515

TOTAL

171.2

2311

Overall % Pre-fermented Flour

33.3

 

Overall % Hydration

70

 

 

Method:

  • Elaboration One on Saturday evening, 19:00. Elaboration Two Sunday morning 09:00
  • Dough mixed Sunday 17:00. Initial Bulk Proof for 2½ hours. Retard overnight.
  • Divide and shape 08:00 Monday. Set to prove in Bannetons
  • After cutting, bake using steam and masonry at 13:00
  • Cool on wires.

DSCF2124DSCF2139DSCF2137DSCF2143

 

Notes:

  • Too much pre-fermented flour, all-told in the formula. The rye sour needed rescuing, but was good by the time of dough mixing, and added at the right quantity. The wheat leaven was too ripe, and too much added. There is need to take account of the greater ash content in this flour; even though it is labelled "Pizza/Ciabatta" flour, it can hardly be described as "00"! The colour is a greyish white.
  • I did not want to retard overnight, but had little choice. The rye sour needed some care and attention. As a result the wheat leaven was over-ripe, and it was early evening, so I had to retard, rather than stay up until 4 in the morning!
  • I miscalculated the salt! At 1.8% on flour, there should have been just over 24g added. This is extremely significant in terms of the dough performance.
  • I adjusted the water level upward, only slightly, but feel 70% is the best proportion of water to be adding to this flour
  • Some information from the flour bags is attached in photographic form. Please do not take any notice of the claim that this is "Strong" flour. High protein [and mineral content], most certainly. High in gluten forming proteins, definitely not! Personally, I wish this claim had never been included in the marketing of this flour. It may well cause numerous customers to be seriously put-off from buying in the future. I want to learn how to make good bread with this flour, and I know it does not possess some of the properties most often associated with strong bread flour. However, I know it is possible, and now know and understand the significance of the notes I have listed above.
  • I have been further reflecting on the use of utterly untreated flour. Thus creating a thoroughly different animal for the baker to deal with. How to up the ante, and increase skill and knowledge levels to retain control of the fermentation and dough development when adding in all the further variables of a less consistent performance in the flour. This is to be the new "bar" to jump over.
  • Onward and upward in the future!

 

 

•2.    BorodinskyDSCF2149

Once rescued, I gave the rye sour dough one further elaboration, prepared a scald, and readied myself to make a large batch of this paste; very nearly 4kg...by hand!

Material

Formula [% of flour]

Recipe [grams]

1. Rye Sourdough [elab 3]

 

 

Stock after Elaboration 2

 

180

Bacheldre Organic Dark Rye Flour

 

532.5

Water

 

887.5

TOTAL

80 [30flour, 50water]

1600

Note: further leftover for stock

 

[80]

 

 

 

2. Scald

 

 

Doves Farm Organic Light Rye Flour

20

400

Organic Barley Malt Syrup

4.5

90

Organic Blackstrap Molasses

6

120

Coriander [ground fresh]

1

20

Salt

1

20

Boiling Water

35

700

TOTAL

67.5

1350

 

 

 

3. Final Paste

 

 

Rye Sourdough [from above]

80

1600

Scald [from above]

67.5

1350

Doves Farm Organic Light Rye Flour

17.5

350

Bacheldre Organic Dark Rye Flour

12.5

250

Gilchesters Organic Pizza Flour

20

400

TOTAL

197.5

3950

Overall Pre-fermented Flour

30

 

Overall Hydration

85

 

 

Method:

  • Give 3rd elaboration to rye sourdough and leave to ferment through for 14 hours. At the same time make the scald. Add molasses and malt syrup to boiled water in a pan and return to the boil. Pour this onto the flour, salt and coriander and mix to form a stiff, gelatinised paste. Cover well, and leave to cool overnight.
  • Mix the final paste by combining the liquid sour with the stiff scald. Add the remaining flour and form a paste. See photographs for texture.
  • Bulk prove 1 hour, then scale and mould into tins using wet hands to shape.
  • Proof for 3 - 4 hours before baking in a moderate oven for 2 hours and upwards
  • Cool on wires
  • Note that I made one loaf in a Pullman Pan scaled off at 2kg, one loaf in "Farmhouse" tin, scaled off at 1.3kg, with the residual 650g proved in a small brotform, although it did, sadly, stick somewhat!

Photographs of the finished loaves are all attached.

DSCF2121DSCF2116DSCF2135DSCF2147DSCF2154

Best wishes to you all

Andy

andythebaker's picture
andythebaker

Brioche Feuilletee

has anyone seen this?  or, more importantly, has anyone made anything similar to this?


 


http://www.parispatisseries.com/2011/05/03/la-patisserie-des-reves-brioche-feuilletee/


 


i especially love the crumb shot.  i saw that and just had to share.


 


i've made plenty of brioche dough in my life, but i've never thought to laminate it further with butter!  and... is it laminated with sugar in some folds too?  the person describing the pastry talks of a carmelized flavor.


 


~andrew


 


 

anitasanger's picture
anitasanger

I fed rye to a very inactive white starter and it literally skyrocketed overnight.

I fed rye to a very inactive white starter and it literally skyrocketed overnight. It is about 3 weeks old, i've been keeping at room temp and feeding twice a day. I've had bubbles the whole time, but NO rise and fall. On a whim I feed it rye just for kicks. The next morning it had tripled in size. I fed it rye again today and it tripled in size in 2 hours. So, when making bread with this using white flour, will it taste like white sourdough? Also, why did the rye boost so much life into this starter? I'm amazed.

honeymustard's picture
honeymustard

Ideas for a first sourdough go?

I have a new and exciting joy about to develop. I'm making a sourdough starter.  Technically it's my first; I tried a starter before but the formula called for dry yeast in the actual starter, which tells me it's not really a true starter. In any case, I accidentally threw the entire starter into my preferment dough, so that was a fail anyway. Onward to better things, and I made a new starter based on this formula. So far so good! I'm on day four and everything is progressing as it should be. So while I'm not ready to make any bread for another day or two, I wanted to ask if anyone had any recipes that would be good for a first sourdough.


I'm up for anything! But if it's helpful to know, I'm using a starter that began with organic rye and has been replenished with organic whole wheat from then on.


I'm asking in a forum directly simply because my searches on here and elsewhere come up with two things: breads that involve additional yeast (which I'd like to avoid), or I'm unable to really understand the recipes because I don't know all the terms and all the processes of making sourdough bread to begin with.


I've got pretty good experience with non-sourdough breads, just not the sourdough. I appreciate the help!

rolls's picture
rolls

Dan Lepard Baguettes

 

IMG_1585.JPG

IMG_1592.JPG
no holes really, made a nice sandwich though



Hi all, i tried the baguette recipe for the first time from Dan Lepard's 'Exceptional Breads', the 'pain blanc', this might be my best scoring for baguettes so far, although i know its far from perfect, and its mostly due to it being a 64% hydration dough. i usually work with more wetter doughs.

I've only tried baguettes a few times and would really love some feedback, advice. please feel free to criticize my baguettes, lol, i know some look like they've got their guts spilled out ;)
i just really love making these, and would love to master it :)

i had to leave the dough in the fridge for over a day as i didn't have time for it then.
i also underproofed the shaped baguettes. i then sprayed lightly with canola oil (i had to improvise as my water spray bottle fell out of reach,lol), scored, placed them in the oven and turned it on to maximum heat (250 degrees celcius for my oven)

i've read that if you underproof your shaped loaves, and bake from a cool oven, you get great oven spring. i've tried this several times, and it really works :D


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StuartG's picture
StuartG

Three croissant questions

Hello all,


Can you help with a few croissant questions? Thank you in advance


1) by my 3rd or 4th turn, the outer dough layer is getting thin and sticks to my stone tabletop.  I've read that a light dusting of fllour is needed but should not overdo it in order to not 'bread up' the dough.  Is it normal to lose layers while working?


2) when baking, the butter runs out and pools around the base of the croissant.  Is that normal? does it indicate not enough turns and folds so the butter's not well incorperated?


3) Some books/recipies I've read say you can leave the dough in the fridge for quite a bit of time in between fold/turns.  But I've also read you shouldn't leave it longer than 30 mins for the first 3 folds/turns because the butter is still massive enough that it will get cold and solid and risks breaking through your dough.  Does this sound right?  Due to kids, I often need to leave it in the fridge longer than specified and wonder if this is causing other issues for me.


Thanks,


Stuart

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