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News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

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jwilder's picture
jwilder

Doyon vs American Baking Systems

I'm lucky enough to be moving into a new, larger bakery space and am able to custom-design my new kitchen. Right now I'm a start-up bakery that outgrew my home kitchen, so I rented a space that has 3 home-use ovens - no commercial stuff. With  my new space I want commercial ovens, and I'm stumped. I've no idea where to begin. I've heard that standard convection ovens are really hard on breads and pastries (90% of what I produce), so I'm wary of convection. What I know I need is a deck oven unit to handle multiple items at a time - pastry, bread, muffins, etc, with steam inject in at least one, and separate controls on all decks. 

I've heard Doyon has some kind of air flow system that's supposed to gentler? And I've also heard Doyon is notorious for problems and very unhelpful in the customer service department. Any truth to either of these claims? Has anyone ever used a Doyon oven? How does it compare to more common brands?

I'm also looking into American Baking Systems. They're much more reasonably priced than Doyon, but again, I've never baked on any of their equipment. How does it compare to Doyon? Better, worse, average? 

Are there any other brands I should consider? Any particular details I should be looking for? 

Also, on home-use ranges there's a marked difference between gas and electric ovens. Is that the case with commercial ovens as well? Is gas preferred? I have the option to have the builder run gas, or not if I don't need it, however it's a significant expense. 

Thanks so much for all the advice!

Grenage's picture
Grenage

Hydration % Calculation

Hi there,

I'm wondering whether people include levain flour and water into their calculations, when working out hydration levels.  Assuming my levain is a mass of 100% just-fed starter; if I bake a loaf with 100g levain, 200g water, and 300g flour - do I have:

a) 66.6%  (200/300) x 100
b) 71.4% (250/350) x 100

I assume that I would have 'b', but assumptions have gotten me into trouble before now...

GSnyde's picture
GSnyde

After an Adventure in Nature, Back to the Kitchen – Country-er Sourdough

Cat and I spent the week of 3/3 through 3/10 on an expedition on the waters and islands around Southern Baja California.  It was a glorious trip, with great up-close encounters with marine mammals and other local fauna.

My camera was busy trying to capture some sense of the wonderful natural world we experienced.

[That's a Grey Whale calf our friend Julie is about to pet]

On our return to civilization, once I got my work life under control, I found time to bake this weekend.  I’m very glad my camera has had some stop-action exercise.  My bread photos are much improved by a faster shutter (it looks like the loaves are lying absolutely still).

I tried a bit of an experiment in sourness.   I took my tried-and-true San Francisco Country Sourdough formula and made it “country-er”.  A bit more rustic and a bit sourer.  I added more whole wheat and more rye (15% of each), used pumpernickel rye in the main dough, increased the hydration to 70% to compensate for the thirstier flour, and lengthened the fermentation time for the levain.

I made three loaves of about 525 grams each, two batards and one boule.  The boule proofed in the basement (about 55 F) so I could bake it in a second batch in my small oven. 

The result was a noticeably sourer, but still only medium-sour, bread, with a bit less open crumb (due to the coarser flour).    This bread, like ones made with the basic SFCSD recipe, has a wonderful light, moist crumb and a moderately chewy crust.  Very delicious.

I will definitely make this bread again.  Maybe even take it up to 25% pumpernickel.

Here’s the new formula and procedure:

San Francisco Country-er Sourdough (Sourdough Pain de Campagne with more rye and whole wheat) version 3-17-12

Yield: 1570 grams: Two 785g Loaves; or Three 523 gram loaves; or…   

Ingredients

LIQUID-LEVAIN BUILD

88 grams   AP flour

24 grams  Whole Wheat flour

24 grams  light rye flour

170 grams   Water, cold (45 F or so)

28     Mature culture (60% hydration)

FINAL DOUGH (70% hydration, including levain)

540 grams   All-Purpose flour (70%)*

115 grams  Whole wheat flour (15%)**

115 grams   Whole rye flour (15%)***

470 grams   Warm water (80 F or so) (61%)

17 grams   Salt (2%)

312 grams   Liquid levain  (40.5%)   

 3-17 used CM Artisan Baker’s Craft (malted)

** 3-17 used CM Organic Hi-protein fine whole wheat

*** 3-17 used CM Pumpernickel rye

 

Directions

1. LIQUID LEVAIN:  Make the final build 15 or so hours before the final mix, and let stand in a covered container at about 70°F

2. MIXING: Add all the ingredients to the mixing bowl, including the levain, but not the salt. Mix just until the ingredients are incorporated into a shaggy mass. Correct the hydration as necessary.  Cover the bowl and let stand for an autolyse phase of 60 minutes. At the end of the autolyse, sprinkle the salt over the surface of the dough, plus a few drops of water to moisten the surface, and finish mixing 5 minutes. The dough should have a medium consistency. 

3. BULK FERMENTATION WITH S&F:  3 hours. Stretch and fold the dough in the bowl twice 20-strokes at 60-minute intervals.  If the dough has not increased in size by 75% or so, let it go a bit longer.

4. RETARDED BULK FERMENTATION (optional):  After second S&F on board, form dough into ball and then place again in lightly oiled bowl.  Refrigerate 8-20 hours, depending on sourness desired and scheduling convenience.

5. DIVIDING AND SHAPING: [Note: if bulk retarded, let dough come to room temperature for 30-90 minutes before pre-shaping.]  Divide the dough into pieces and pre-shape.  Let sit on board for 30 minutes, and then shape into boules or batards or baguettes.

6. PROOFING: Approximately 1.5 to 2.5 hours at 72° F. Ready when poke test dictates.  Pre-heat oven to 500 with steam apparatus in place.

7. BAKING: Slash loaves.  Bake with steam, on stone.  Turn oven to 450 °F after it hits 500F after loading loaves.  Remove steaming apparatus after 12 minutes (10 for baguettes). Bake for 35 to 40 minutes total (for 750g loaves; 27 minutes for 500 gram loaves; less for smaller loaves).   Rotate loaves for evenness as necessary.  When done (205 F internal temp), leave loaves on stone with oven door ajar 10 minutes.

Glenn

bdatxmama's picture
bdatxmama

New owner of Verona Assistent

HELP!!!! Just purchased the Assistent last wk of course everything I read about their manual is true. The DVD is just as bad. Bread Beckers has been a great help w the roller/scraper but they don't have any videos using the new cookie/cake beaters which came with mine. If anybody has used these, could you tell me if you have used it for chocolate chip cookie dough or any other cookie or cake recipes. I would appreciate detailed instructions for speed for
creaming and then mixing all other ingred in. Thanks.

Skibum's picture
Skibum

JMonkey's Poolish Baguette

I have been baking steadily now for 2 months and thanks to this great site my results have improved a great deal.  Today was my best bake ever! The biggest difference was finally having a baking stone in the oven.  Today’s oven spring surpassed even results I have had baking in cast iron.  Really nice tasting loaf, with great crust, nice soft crumb and great flavour.  This is my first content post, so I hope the photos come out:

 http://www.flickr.com/photos/69734840@N03/6845029230/in/photostream

 I have been working on the recipe posted my JMonkey under recipes in the handbook:

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/handbook/poolish-baguettes

I have had to make a few changes.  First of all, my home is 4,420 feet above sea level and it is very dry with the humidity rarely venturing above 50% in winter and I am likely using different flour.  Perhaps JM’s water is wetter!  I certainly need to use less yeast. 

My first crack at this recipe measured by weight, resulted in a very dry dough and I ended up adding an additional 3 Tbs of water just to get it to go together, but the dough was still too dry and the loaves average.

My second try at this recipe I started by using an additional 6 Tbs of water and added a bit more salt using 11/2 tsp.  I also switched from Robin Hood AP unbleached AP flour to Robin Hood Best for Bread, White bread flour.  (yup, I’m in Canada).  To get better spring, this batch was baked in a cast iron dutch oven at 450 covered for 20 minutes, then finished uncovered for 20 minutes more.  The loaves were very good and the trend in the right direction.

My third recipe was outstanding and once again, I upped the salt another ¼ tsp for taste.  Though I started this recipe project using weights, this is the volume measure for the bread I have been making:

Poolish

1 1/3 Cup Bread flour

1 1/3 cup water – OOPS recipe deviation . . .

1/8 tsp yeast

At around 5:00 pm Friday I started the yeast in warm water and then mix and see you in the morning!

Final Mix

21/2 Cups Bread Flour

1/2 Cup warm water

13/4 tsp salt

½ tsp yeast

Mix warm water with yeast then add to polish, stirring to break it up a bit.  Add polish to flour & salt mix and mix/knead for 10 minutes.  Placed dough in an olive oiled bowl for a bulk ferment with 3 stretch and folds every 30 minutes, followed by a 1 hour bulk rise.

Okay, I deviated from the recipe once again by doing the stretch and folds at 30 minutes rather than 1 stretch and fold after 1 hour, but hey, I am a skibum and I get things confused.  I confused the bulk ferment prep between the polish baguette and ciabatta recipes, but I guess with my additional water my mix is

I then divided the dough in 2 and pre-shaped 2 dough balls.  One dough got covered and will get baked today.  The other went pack into the bowl and into the fridge for later use.

After 25 minutes rest, I shaped a boule as Mr. Hammelman shows on his excellent video:

http://www.kingarthurflour.com/professional/videos.html

I placed the shaped loaf onto bakers parchment dusted with flour and cornmeal  and covered with a floured towel and plastic bag to proof.  After 1 hour I turned the oven on to 450F and placed an empty broiler pan try on the bottom rack, the stone on the 2nd rack.  After 11 minutes the oven was up to heat and I gave it another 19 minutes to let the stone heat up, for a total proofing time of 30 minutes.

I then dusted the loaf with flour, scored it and placed the loaf and parchment onto the baking stone and adding ¾ cup boiling water to the broiler pan.  The total baking time was 30minutes.

YAHOO, great loaf, great bake!

SS

Anomalous's picture
Anomalous

Pumpernickel: should it shrink overnight?

My first attempt at Pumpernickel came out of the oven somewhat shunken, so I'm wondering whether that's what should have happened or whether I've done something wrong. I used a German-style recipe, summarised below, from  Daniel Stevens's River Cottage Bread Handbook, with the quantities proportionally reduced by half to a manageable quantity.

On removing them from the oven the next day they had shrunk significantly, almost back to their pre-proving volume, even shrinking away from the sides of the tin. Is this normal or have I goofed up? I won't be cutting into the loaf until tomorrow, so I don't know how taste and texture are working out.

Pumpernickel recipe (Westphalian style)

Soaker: I baked 100g of old wholemeal bread slices until they were very dark brown right the way through, then soaked them with 100g whole rye grains in about 500ml of water overnight.

Sponge: I mixed 150g wholemeal rye flour with 150g water and a good dollop of my wholemeal rye sourdough starter and left it overnight.

Dough: Next morning, I strained and squeezed the soaker in a sieve and retained the liquor, then I mixed the squeezed soaker and the sponge with 125g wholemeal rye flour, 125g rye flakes, 10g salt, 25g blackstrap molasses and 150ml water from the soaker.

Baking: I mixed it all up good and proper, then transferred the dough into two 2lb baking tins so that each was about half full, covered them with clingfilm then let them raise for about 4 hours until nearly doubled in size then I covered the tins tightly with two layers of foil and baked for an hour at 200C then 30 mins at 190C, 30 mins at 180C, 30 mins at 170C then 3 hours at 150C, then switched off the oven and left them in overnight while it cooled. This morning I wrapped the loaves in greaseproof parchment to mature until tomorrow.

dwfender's picture
dwfender

Fresh Pasta Producing and Cooking

I've been experimenting with fresh pasta recently. My latest recipe was 1 part semolina, 1 part durum, 2 parts 00 Farina. 

I use 1 egg per 100 grams of flour, pinch of salt and adjust the consistancy with warm water.

I machine knead using a kitchen aid and folding between 6-8 times before rolling. 

 

So I have two questions. When making fresh pasta, is it best to let it dry out slightly at room temperature before freezing and holding it or should I just freeze it right away. I feel like a good 30 minute dry at room temp would help stop the dough from over hydrating. 

2.) Whenever I read about cooking fresh pasta from either novice or professional, timings suggest 2-3 on average. Rarely more and never less. However, everytime I've made and cooked fresh pasta it is ALWAYS over cooked by the one minute mark. The last time I made it I cooked it with a 30 second timer, finished it in the sauce for about 2 minutes and it came out perfect. I understand that it doesnt matter if it takes 30 seconds to cook or 10 minutes, if it's al dente it's al dente. But WHY? Why is it only taking 30 seconds to cook....am I over hydrating my dough? Am I not kneading enough? I don't get it. 

 

Any suggestions would be appreciated. It's quite difficult find some really high quality videos or blogs talking about making fresh pasta in an artisinal manner so if anyone has any I would appreciate it if you shared. 

laura seim's picture
laura seim

why so many bread recipes with AP flour?

Hi, I'm new here. I love this website, it has help me come such a long ways with my bread making. I have been under the impression that you must use "bread" flour to make good bread because of the higher protein content, for better gluten and better texture. That's what I've been after, a good texture (nice soft and stretchy bread). However I see so many recipes with beautiful pictures of breads made with AP flour, why? These breads were obviously made by very talented bakers and they are practically all calling for AP flour??! So why so many bread recipes made with AP? What does it do to the bread that is better than bread flour?

ananda's picture
ananda

Bread from my wood-fired brick oven, made 15th/16th March 2012

Bread from my wood-fired brick oven, made 15th/16th March 2012

1.    Caraway Rye with Blackstrap Molasses


I haven't made this in a while, but returned to it when contemplating doing a Pain de Siegle de Thezac, and remembering I had plenty Molasses and Caraway Seeds in stock.

Rye Sour Refreshment:

Day/Date

Time

Sour

Rye Flour

Water

Total

Weds 14.03

07:40

40

150

250

440

Weds 14.03

19:00

440

174

290

904

 

Materials/Stage

Formula [% of flour]

Recipe [grams]

1. Rye Sourdough

 

 

Bacheldre Organic Dark Rye Flour

25

324

Water

41

540

TOTAL

66

864

 

 

 

2. Final Dough

 

 

Rye Sour [from above]

66

864

Marriage’s Organic Strong White Flour

75

1000

Salt

1.8

24

Caraway Seeds

1.8

24

Black Strap Molasses

8

107

Water @ 40°C

26

343

TOTAL

178.6

2362

 

 

 

% Pre-fermented flour

25

-

% Overall hydration

64.8

-

% Wholegrain flour

25

-

FACTOR

13.2

-

 

Method:

    • Build the sourdough as above.
    • Dissolve the molasses into the warm water.   Add the sourdough, seeds and salt, then add the flour.   Attach a dough hook and mix on first speed for 5 minutes, scraping down the bowl as needed.   Leave to rest for 10 minutes.   Mix for 2 minutes on first speed and 3 minutes on second speed, again, scraping down the bowl as needed.   Rest a further 10 minutes.   Mix 3 more minutes on second speed.   DDT 25°C.
    • Bulk ferment 2 hours.
    • Scale, divide and mould as 2 large loaves.   Re-mould dough pieces and place in prepared bannetons.
    • Final proof 2½  hours.
    • Tip out onto a dusted peel and score a diamond pattern on the top of the loaf.   Bake in a wood-fired oven.
    • Cool on wires.

2.    Gilchesters’ Miche

More Gilchesters breads for the market!

Levain Refreshment

Day/Date

Time

Levain

Bread Flour

Water

Total

Weds 14.03

07:40

40

100

60

200

Weds 14.03

12:00

200

200

120

520

Weds 14.03

19:00

520

200

120

840

Weds 14.03

23:00

840

300

180

1320

 

Material/Stage

Formula [% of flour]

Recipe [grams]

1. Wheat Levain

 

 

Marriage’s Organic Strong White Flour

25

750

Water

15

450

TOTAL

40

1200

 

 

 

2. Final Dough

 

 

Wheat Levain [from above]

40

1200

Gilchesters’ Organic Farmhouse Flour

75

2250

Salt

1.75

52

Water

58

1740

TOTAL

174.75

5242

 

 

 

% pre-fermented flour

25

-

% overall hydration

73

-

% wholegrain flour [approx 85% extraction]

75

-

FACTOR

30

-

 

Method:

    • Combine Farmhouse Flour and water in a mixer until clear.   Autolyse for one hour.
    • Add Levain and mix in speed one with the hook attachment for 8 minutes.   Add the salt and mix on first speed a further 7 minutes.   DDT 26°C.
    • Bulk Proof Times 2½ hours.   S&F at 1 and 2 hours.
    • Scale, divide and mould.   Rest 15 minutes.   Prepare Bannetons.   Re-mould.
    • Final proof 2½ to 3 hours.
    • Score tops and bake in wood-fired oven.
    • Cool on wires.

 

 

 

Wheat Levain Refreshment:

Day/Date

Time

Levain

Bread Flour

Water

Total

Thursday 15th March

12:15

120

200

120

440

Thursday 15th March

18:00

440

200

120

760

Thursday 15th March

22:45

760

1025

615

2400

 

3.    Pain de Campagne

I wanted to use up the last of the T55 Farine de Ble which my brother brought back for me from the Loire at the end of January, and to make something more robust with it.   Two big loaves!

Material/Stage

Formula [% of flour]

Recipe [grams]

1. Wheat Levain

 

 

Marriage’s Organic Strong White Flour

25

450

Water

15

270

TOTAL

40

720

 

 

 

2. Final Dough

 

 

Wheat Levain [from above]

40

720

T55 French Flour

50

900

Marriage’s Organic Strong Wholemeal

20

360

Bacheldre Organic Dark Rye Flour

5

90

Salt

1.67

30

Water

54

972

TOTAL

170.67

3072

 

 

 

% pre-fermented flour

25

-

% overall hydration

69

-

% wholegrain flour [approx 85% extraction]

25

-

FACTOR

18

-

 

Method:

    • Build the leaven according to the schedule above.
    • Combine all the final dough materials in a mixing bowl and mix on first speed using a hook attachment for 3 minutes, scraping down the bowl.   Rest for 5 minutes.   Mix a further 5 minutes on first speed, scraping down as needed.   Rest another 5 minutes.   Mix on second speed for 4 minutes, again, scraping down the bowl as needed.   DDT 26°C.
    • Bulk ferment for 2½ hours, S&F after each hour.
    • Scale, divide and mould.   Rest 15 minutes and prepare bannetons.   Re-mould and put into bannetons.
    • Final proof 2 to 2½ hours.
    • Tip each loaf out onto the peel and score the top.   Bake in a wood-fired brick oven.
    • Cool on wires.

4.    White Bread – Gilchesters’ Style
ie. not very white

Material/Stage

Formula [% of flour]

Recipe [grams]

1. Wheat Levain

 

 

Marriage’s Organic Strong White Flour

35

1000

Water

21

600

TOTAL

56

1600

 

 

 

2. Final Dough

 

 

Wheat Levain [from 1 above]

56

1600

Gilchesters’ Organic Pizza/Ciabatta Flour

65

1857

Salt

1.75

50

Water

47

1343

TOTAL

169.75

4850

 

 

 

% pre-fermented flour

35

-

% overall  hydration

68

-

% wholegrain flour

-

-

FACTOR

28.57

-

 

Method:

    • Build leaven as described.
    • Combine all the final dough materials in a mixing bowl and mix on first speed using a hook attachment for 3 minutes, scraping down the bowl.   Rest for 5 minutes.   Mix a further 5 minutes on first speed, scraping down as needed.   Rest another 5 minutes.   Mix on second speed for 4 minutes, again, scraping down the bowl as needed.   DDT 26°C.
    • Bulk ferment for 2½ hours.
    • Scale, divide and mould.   Rest 15 minutes and prepare bannetons.   Re-mould and put into bannetons.
    • Final proof 2 to 2½ hours.
    • Tip each loaf out onto the peel and score the top.   Bake in a wood-fired brick oven.
    • Cool on wires.

All four varieties have turned out well; the oven is firing well at the moment and the milder weather has really helped proof times too.

Alnwick Farmers’ Market is very late this month.   But I’m ahead of schedule as my freezer is now just about full, and there is a broad selection of bread made; mostly naturally leavened items too.   I’ll be on the hunt for fresh yeast very soon now so I can make Hot Cross Buns for the stall as it will be so close to Easter!

Andy

sournewb71's picture
sournewb71

Desem Starter - When is it ripe? - How to use it?

I'm trying to convert a regular sourdough starter into a desem starter.  I was curious to know when is a desem starter ripe?  Do you just wait until it is soft?

Also how do you use it?  Do you just make a sponge (stiff or liquid) as you would with other recipes, but using the desem starter?

I'm also looking for definitive resources on desem starter breads, if you have any references or books you'd recommend let me know.

 

Thanks

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