The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

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webhome's picture

Resting time for SD starter?

I have read instances where it was said to refrigerate the SD Starter after it has reached the right odor/consistency.  is this true and for how long before I can use it?   Once removed from the refrigerator, should it be fed and allowed another rest, again for how long?

trailrunner's picture

spelt AYW levain...and more

I hadn't baked in a while and hadn't used my AYW in weeks!   Got my odds and ends of partial bags of flour out and voila....lovely bake.   Fed my  100% hydration rye starter with spelt and AWY 2x a few hours was SO active I had to refrigerate it overnight. Used up 65g Semolina, 42 grams Italian Chestnut flour, 86 grams Kamut, 123 grams sprouted Rye and 458 grams AP KA.  Mixed and autolysed  with  640 g water without salt for 1 hr. Added salt and used speed 2 for 5 min . Very slack dough but responded well to s&f's. Fermented room temp for 2 hrs with s&f q 30 min x4 and then 1 hr more at room temp. Shaped 2 boules and immediately retarded over-night. Baked cold this AM in 500 degree pots for 20 min. covered...sprayed 10 x in pot with filtered water then covered....uncovered and 20 min open. The fragrance is wonderful. Will post crumb shots later. 

 photo IMG_6893_zps14e8ac91.jpg  photo IMG_6894_zps7fbce72f.jpg  photo IMG_6895_zps1cc59eff.jpg  photo IMG_6897_zpsb0d59dfc.jpg  photo IMG_6900_zpsf74a17e6.jpg first of Spring...asparagus quiche. I use buttermilk for the crust and in the filling...broiled the asparagus first. Delicious.  photo IMG_6891_zps54192770.jpg

crumb shots added. I couldn't be MORE pleased with this bread. What a crust and crumb. Full body flavor...very very wheaty. I am impressed with the caramelization of the crust and note how uniform the crust thickness is all the way around the slice. Chewy and almost candy-like. Rich brown color to the crumb and exquisitely tender due to the AYW. Love the glisten to the crumb . My camera doesn't want to catch the dark crust but it is way darker than in the pics. I baked it to 212. What else to say....if I never made another SD loaf but this one I would be more than content.  photo IMG_6904_zpsfeced175.jpg  photo IMG_6906_zpsdff0a446.jpg  photo IMG_6903_zpsb898ea8c.jpg  photo IMG_6902_zpsf205dd69.jpg

Skibum's picture

Chocolate babka from ITJB

Oh my! Great idea Josh! Any other great ideas like this would be most warmly welcomed.

Best regards, Brian

David Esq.'s picture
David Esq.

Tartine - Overnight Bulk Fermentation

I have been baking nothing but the basic country loaf now for several months, and my breads have always come out pretty good, though varying considerably in flavor.

I am a weekend baker and have wanted to get my bakes done early Saturday instead of late Saturday night or early Sunday.  So I decided to take another stab at doing things backwards.

Friday morning, I took my starter out of the fridge (last fed, a week earlier), and created the leaven.

Friday night, I mixed the dough and 90 minutes later, I added the salt and did one turn 30 minutes later, before placing it in the fridge.

Saturday morning I took out the dough, and did another turn. About an hour later I shaped and let it proof at 69 degrees, for 4 hours before baking.

The breads had a decent amount of oven spring.  The crumb was a bit dense.  The flavor was okay.

I would not say it was my favorite bread.  I reheated it on Sunday afternoon and it went over very well. I thought it was a little chewy and maybe a little gummy, like it was under baked slightly.  The second loaf I cut this morning and made a sandwich out of it. I do prefer less holes because it is easier to make PB&J without big holes running through my bread.  Again, the bread was a bit chewy but not too hard to eat. Gave my mouth a workout.  It did not taste gummy.  The flavor was okay.  I had a piece with butter and that was delicious.

So, it is not a ringing endorsement for baking bread for early Saturday afternoon, but I know that if I really need bread for Saturday, I can get it done in a pinch.  I might try it again with the proofing done at a warmer temperature, since the dough stayed pretty cool throughout the proofing.


jeffbellamy's picture

Tartine pics


Almost to the end of my first 100 pounds of flour and I bought a Taylor and Brod proof box.


Things are starting to turn out the way I want them to. This loaf 1lb 14oz, baked in combo cooker.

Breadbabe's picture

Fresh milled grains - how long are they fresh?

I'm looking for a new discussion on a very old topic here - and maybe I haven't covered all the threads to find the answer, apologies if the answer is floating in the site somewhere. I even asked a similar question a while back, but for a different purpose.

Currently I use all fresh milled grain, mostly wheat. I use it commercially and don't always have the opportunity to mill for immediate use. Its not always possible to freeze or refrigerate the flour. I've read the posts that suggest I need to age the flour if I don't use it in **this** amount of time. But **this** seems to be a relative number. Everything from 90 minutes to a few days. I must admit to accidently aging some milled flour - and didn't experience the grand difference that was promised if I had done it on purpose.

Soooo ..... what data are we drawing from for these conclusions of fresh? Is it experience? Written studies? My experience using milled flour kept at room temp for up to a week is so different than the suggestions of flat, dense, tasteless, etc. I have had NO difference at all. None. My bakery runs through 400lbs of wheat per month so I would have ample opportunity to notice differences.

Then there's the issue of lack of enzymes and nutrients after a few hours/days/whatever- are there studies for this that I can read? I am aware of those sites that promote this idea while it feeds their business model, but even those sites don't produce the kind of proof that I would expect for the claims of nutrient loss.

ok, I'm all ears.


Wingnut's picture

3/10/14 Bake

This weeks bake is 16% Organic Sprouted Spelt Sourdough….


Slash and Bake Before...

Slash and Bake After...

Second Batard….

Ear Shot…..

Crumb Shot...

Getting ready for a Fly Fishing trip a few hours north, my eyes are sore from all the tying

I hope I can find the correct pattern…….



ericreed's picture

Sourdough help and Tartine No. 3 Fermented Oat Bread

Ok, I'm new to sourdough breads. So far I've made 4, 2 pure levain and 2 with 0.2% instant yeast added. The latter 2 worked perfectly, of the 2 pure ones, 1 was inedible and didn't rise at all, 1 was ok but a little flat and a little too sour. (The utter failure was Hamelman's Vermont Sourdough, the mostly ok one was Ken Forkish's Overnight Country Blonde, and then I made each with the added yeast.)

My starter is now 3 weeks old and reliably doubles in 4-5 hours at 70 F, which from what I understand seems pretty active. 3 days ago I switched it to 60% hydration from 100%, both the failures were at the higher hydration and while it bubbled nicey, I was worried it was too weak to rise and I thought it would be easier to see it rise with a stiffer dough. The 4-5 hour doubling is with the 60% hydration starter.

I feed it twice a day, usually discarding all but 60 g, then adding 38 g KA Bread flour and 22 g water. (Slightly less than 60%, but some more water gets in when I wet my hands to mix the starter, so I figure it about works out.)

On to the Tartine part and the question. I thought I would try the Tartine method since the others weren't working well for me. It's going right now, but not well. I notice that Forkish pre-ferments 12% of his flour in his levain build and uses 16.67% seed starter. His levain goes 7-9 hours at room temp before mixing the final dough. Hamelman ferments 15% of his flour in the levain, uses 20% seed starter in the levain, and ferments for 12-16 hours. Chad Robertson builds his leaven with merely a tablespoon of seed starter to 200 g flour, which works out to about 8% (I worked this out using Forkish's measurements; he says 216 g starter = 13 tablespoons, so about 16.6 grams per tbsp divided by 200 g flour), and Chad ferments only 7.5% of the flour for 4-6 hours at "moderate room temperature". A mere 150 g levain is meant to rise 1000 g flour, and for this bread 500 g cooked oat porridge as well.

Given that I've been having problems with rising using larger amounts of levain and longer fermentations, it seemed unlikely to work for me. But I did the levain and it took 9 hours to pass the float test, so longer than he suggests but it passed. The final dough has now been fermenting for 2 hours and 45 minutes. (3 hrs 30 min if you count the 45 minute autolyse which has the levain in it.) It has not budged at all that I can tell and I see no indication of fermentation, no bubbles, no sourdough type smells.

I've checked the dough temperature each time I do a stretch and fold and it's maintained a temp of 81-82 F. I'm not surprised that it hasn't perceptibly risen yet given the tiny amount of leaven, but clearly other people have success. So, anyone got some insight?

tchism's picture

Yesterday's Bake

Baked two loaves yesterday one made with harvest grains from KA and one using a mix of fresh starter and cold unrefreshed starter. Both are 100% starters but I mixed the two to see what it would do the the flavor profile.

Here is how the two loaves looked after the first forming.

This is the harvest grain loaf just out of the oven.

The crumb about an hour later.

The second loaf just out of the oven right out of the oven.


The harvest grain loaf has a great flavor and texture.

The second loaf we are having with a pasta dinner tonight.

MBaadsgaard's picture

Effect of room temperature when shaping?

I can't for the life of me get any google results on the effect of room temperature on shaping the loaf.

So does anyone have a link to some info on this?

The reason why I'm asking is because I was making 4 small boule's tonight, and when I got to the 4th, cut from the same dough, it was incredibly sticky, and impossible to shape, even after shaping and reshaping 3 times. I realised that the small kitchen was quite warm from the oven being on for so long, and thought that might have been the problem.

I just thought I'd read up on it a bit, and see if that could be the reason :)