The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

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scoyu's picture

Brioche with Tangzhong


It seemed like I was never going to find a fully enriched brioche recipe with tangzhong, so I went ahead and just tweaked a recipe I found in french ( ). I ended up using a 120 gr of tangzhong which was sweetened with honey.

This worked beyond my wildest imaginations, I bulk fermented in the fridge overnight, no S&F, treated like a laminated dough to get layers, then rolled into a log and cut portions out to rise. The 'lamination' gives a great shreddable crumb. The tangzhong is a definite plus in rich brioche


Oh and I forgot to egg wash, doh


crumb shot

Jason1876's picture

FWSY 10% whole wheat with poolish

Finally, I got this one right!!!(hopefully)


  • 500g AP flour 
  • 500g water (fridge cold)
  • 0.4g yeast

Final Dough

  • 400g AP flour
  • 100g WW flour
  • 230g water (20g water short)
  • 22g salt (I love salt)
  • 3g yeast


  • poolish at 11pm with cold water, stickered the tub, at 6am its doubled in size.

(its summer time, the room temp is always high, so my mind told me `take time and temp as ingredients`~no, its Ken Forkish actually)

  • mixed the final dough at 6am. Instead of 250g water, I used less water 230g.

(I tried to follow the recipe exactly before, and the results were really really slack, trust me~so, I cut out some water, mainly because I live in a coastal city and its really moist here, REALLY, so i thought, huh~maybe I should follow my heart a little bit~plus, the quality of the flour I mentioned before can also affect the ability to absorb the water, I guess)

  • s&f every 15 mins. 0600 - 0615 - 0630 - 0645 - 0700.
  • fridge the whole tub for 12 hrs.(from 7am - 7pm )

(I had to go to work. If I had more time, I would divide and pre-shape and shape the dough, then basket, wrap and fridge them.)

  • 2.5 times in size when I got back, divided the dough (its actually not slack this time).
  • pre-shaped and rest 15 mins, then pre-shaped again and rest 15 mins
  • shaped, basketed and proof 1 hr, did the finger dent test, (ok, its ready, lets bake)
  • 250°C, 30 mins lid on+20 mins lid off

(I normally do 20+25 but some part of me always tells me `follow the recipe! then follow your heart!)  

the crumb tasted really really moist and elastic, a bit nutty and milky with a little bit tang(I love the tangy aftertaste).

Finally I got those big bubbles!!!

Its not perfect yet, but I will absolutely keep baking, making more and more and learn from the mistakes.

Guys, please give me some advises judging from these pics.



(I shouldnt read the book <Josey Baker Bread>, I mean I baked over 10 loaves per week!!! and the weekends are whole day bread making and baking, my whole apartment smells like bakery. I give away a lot of loaves to my friends and neighbors, well...most of them did not like this kinda bread, because its really chewy, not soft, not sweet with no cream, sausage, dried meat floss... the rest are those who really appreciate the smell of wheat, tangy, nutty, the freshness. to me, its really tasty and amazing to make sandwich and pudding with.)

oh~BTW, I think I killed my 200g levain last night, cuz this morning, nothing really happened, there's no bubbles in the dough and on the surface. I did the floating test <Tartine Bread>, but somehow, nothing really happened.

I'm not really sure but I guess the water is a bit too warm? (not hot!) not a quitter, so tonight, keep going.



paul0130's picture

So what is this thing?

I finally got my own starter going! I first tried my hand at sourdough last year and failed at making my own starter, so I ordered KAF starter online. This helped me to get some experience and find out what it's supposed to smell like and how it looks like when it rises properly, etc.So this year when I went to the beach at Myrtle for a week I tried again. I started with a very liquidy mix of water and unbleached white flour and set it out on the screened balcony for about a day. Then I just kept it going for the rest of the week at about 100% hydration. But here is where it gets interesting.

When I got home it wasn't as warm as the beach so I decided to stick it in the oven with the light on for a few hours. When I took it out the glass jar was very hot to the touch. Darn! I thought I killed it. It seemed to stunt the growth for a couple of days, but then started back up again. Now it's great and doubling up quickly.

So my crazy question is this. I'm calling this my beach starter. Is this really "beach yeast" or did I just pickup yeast from the air back home after the oven episode? Or did the heat just temporarily stunt the growth. I would like to think I have a souvenir starter from the beach. Either way, I'm baking this weekend! Just curious to know exactly what yeast is in there. Also, when I smell it, it has a really good lemony scent, but it almost burns my nose from the acidity scent. It's stronger and not as fruity as my KAF, but I think it's going to make a good sourdough. Thanks all for your feedback!

rgreenberg2000's picture

Resilient little bugger!!

It's been a while since I have participated here, but I just had to post this am.  I am amazed at what a resilient little bugger my starter is..... For reasons I won't go into it has been neglected a LONG TIME in my fridge.  In fact, last night, when I decided to pull it out, I literally had to chip out most of it, to get at the small amount that remained with some moisture (the consistency of putty.)

I fed it last night with very low expectations, and was happy this am to see the small amount I had (about 105g including what I fed it) with lots of bubbles.  So, I fed it again this am (1:1:1), and after about two hours, I'm very pleasantly surprised to see this kind of action!!!

I guess I just inadvertently dried my starter, and then reconstituted it.  Sharing here since nobody I know will care or understand at all! :)



hamletcat's picture

Working with sticky dough?

Sometimes when I use flours other than wheat, my dough is really sticky.  Usually I mix these doughs with my bread maker so it doesn't stick to my hands before full gluten development.  If I wanted to knead the bread myself, are there any tips for to prevent the dough from sticking to your hands.  I've tried the slap and fold technique but it doesn't really work very well for flours other than wheat.  One example that comes to mind is low fat soy.  

BakerNewbie's picture

Autolyse: minimum hydration levels, other liquids?

When doing an autolyse, what is the minimum hydration level required for it to work?

Also, aside from water, what other liquids can go into an autolyse? Eggs whites? Milk? Etc.?

isand66's picture

Sourdough Date Bread w/Chocolate Raspberry Balsamic Vinegar

  One of my favorite breads is my Sourdough Date Bread which was inspired by my good friend Khalid.  Since I recently picked up some fresh dates from the supermarket the other day I figured it was time to try it again but with some slight modifications.

I didn't buy enough dates so I had to reduce the amount used slightly which didn't seem to make that much of a difference.  I also used a higher percentage of French Style flour which I recently purchased from KAF.  I really love working with this flour so I wanted to use a higher amount than before while also removing the Spelt and Durum flour but keeping the freshly ground whole wheat.

The final change was to add some chocolate raspberry balsamic vinegar to bump up the flavors a little.  I thought this would add a little more sweetness to the bread and compliment the dates well.

The final bread came out excellent with a nice dark crust from the sugars in the dates and wonderful sweet and tangy flavor which goes well with just about anything.  The crumb was nice and moist as well.

Please note:  the dates are simmered in part of the water used for the main dough and instead of chopping them up  I just mushed them a little in the bowl which worked out fine.


Sour Dough Date Bread Act 2.2 (%)

Sour Dough Date Bread Act 2.2 (weights)

Download BreadStorm .bun file here.


Levain Directions

Step 1

Mix all the levain ingredients together  for about 1 minute and cover with plastic wrap.  Let it sit at room temperature for around 7-8 hours or until the starter has doubled.  I used my proofer set at 83 degrees and it took about 4 hours.

Step 2

Mix the flour and water with all of the levain from step 1 and let it sit at room temperature again until it is doubled.  At this point you can either use it right away or put it in the refrigerator and use it the next 1 to 2 days.

Date Preparation

Make sure there are no pits in the dates and do not trust the package like I did which claimed they were pitted dates.  Simmer the dates in 226 grams of water until they are soft.  After you remove them from the heat, add 100 grams of cold water and let the dates sit until they come back down to room temperature.

 Main Dough Procedure

Mix the flours with the remainder of the water for about 1 minute.  Let the rough dough sit for about 20 minutes to an hour.  Next add the dates, butter and salt and mix on low for 2 minutes and speed #2 for another 2 minutes or by hand for about 6 minutes.   You should end up with a cohesive dough that is slightly tacky but very manageable.  Remove the dough from your bowl and place it in a lightly oiled bowl or work surface and do several stretch and folds.  Let it rest covered for 10-15 minutes and then do another stretch and fold.  Let it rest another 10-15 minutes and do one additional stretch and fold.  After a total of 2 hours place your covered bowl in the refrigerator and let it rest for 12 to 24 hours.  (Since I used my proofer I only let the dough sit out for 1.5 hours before refrigerating).

When you are ready to bake remove the bowl from the refrigerator and let it set out at room temperature still covered for 1.5 to 2 hours.  Remove the dough and shape as desired.  I made 1 large Miche for this bake.

The dough will take 1.5 to 2 hours depending on your room temperature and will only rise about 1/3 it's size at most.  Let the dough dictate when it is read to bake not the clock.

Around 45 minutes before ready to bake, pre-heat your oven to 550 degrees F. and prepare it for steam.  I have a heavy-duty baking pan on the bottom rack of my oven with 1 baking stone on above the pan and one on the top shelf.  I pour 1 cup of boiling water in the pan right after I place the dough in the oven.

Right before you are ready to put them in the oven, score as desired and then add 1 cup of boiling water to your steam pan or follow your own steam procedure.

After 1 minute lower the temperature to 450 degrees.  Bake for 35-50 minutes until the crust is nice and brown and the internal temperature of the bread is 205 degrees.  (Note: since I made one large bread I needed to lower the oven further to 425 F. for about half of the baking time to prevent the crust from burning).

Take the bread out of the oven when done and let it cool on a bakers rack before for at least 2 hours before eating.




BakerNewbie's picture

How to par-bake, freeze, and do final baking?

I'm making some dinner rolls. I'd like to bake them (but not to completion), then freeze them, then bake them to completion when I am ready to consume them. The post here seems to suggest I should bake until 194F / 90C. Is this correct?

I'm worried about opening my oven to take the internal temperature. Can I just set my oven to 194F / 90C and leave the buns in the oven for half an hour? The temperature of the bread would never get past 194F / 90C then, right? And maybe half an hour (or more?) is enough time get that internal temperature? Or would this cause problems with the oven spring? (By the way, I am thinking of this approach because of what I know about sous vide cooking.)

And once I have properly parbaked dinner rolls that have been frozen, what temperature and how long do I need to cook it to completion? Would I need to thaw out the bread first?

dabrownman's picture

Lucy’s Sorta Tzitzel Like Sprouted Sourdough

Lucy noticed that we were out of Jewish Deli Rye sandwich bread and pumpernickel too so she was flummoxed as to which one she would craft up a recipe for this week.  Of course she chose pumpernickel since I is always her favorite kind of bread but, since I had recently smoked a corned beef, freezing half, I told her the pumpernickel would have to wait.


She knows out favorite JDR is tzitzel and we have messed with the formula  several times trying to get it right – without total success but we love the final SD bread anyway. It eventually became a 40% whole rye bread that was a little less hydrated than out usual bread for that amount of whole grains.


Lucy then decided to continue our sprouted grain baking by using 30% sprouted whole rye and wheat in the mix and increase the amount of whole grains to 60% by using 30% whole un-sprouted rye and wheat as well.  In the past, 30% sprouted grain in the mix became somewhat of a fermenting nemesis making a long, shaped proof in the fridge of 20 hours problematic.  We thought we would give it another go to verify the previous outcomes.


We sprouted the equal parts of rye and wheat on Monday and dried them outside in the AZ sun at 105 F on Wednesday before the monsoon rains came around dumping 2 of rain is a very short period of time.   We milled the sprouted and whole grains together and sifted out the 15% hard bits totaling 42 g which we fed to the 9 week retarded rye starter to make the levain over 3 builds.


The first build was 2 hours the 2nd stage was 3 hours and 3rd stage was 4 hours.  Once the levain rose 50% in volume we retarded it for 12 hours.  An hour after the levain came out of the fridge the next day, we started the 1 hour autolyse with the remaining dough flour, red malt, sprouting water and water with the salt sprinkled on top – so no chance for forgetting it.


I know what you are thinking.  Tzitzel not made with any sprouted flour or even any whole meal flour either.  It is made with medium rye flour, bread flour and commercial yeast.  Lucy’s Sorta Tizitzel Like Sprouted Sourdough is getting pretty far from the mark but since she can’t read or understand English – it isn’t all her fault.


I think she just called it that to please her master and feed his Tzitizel Fever Fetish.  Still, it sounded pretty good if the sprouted flour didn’t create its usual run away fermenting mass that would eat the fridge and probably the most susceptible and most tasty part of the kitchen.


Tough to beat  good, bacon, brie,  blue cheese mushroon burger - once a month!

Once the levain hit the mix, we did our usual 3 sets of slap and folds of 7, 2 and 1 minute – all on 20 minute intervals.   Since the hydration was low for this amount of whole grains. We did 2 slaps to each fold and I can say thy dough completely quit sticking to the counter after the first 7 minutes.  With 30% whole rye in the mix you have to change your rule of thumb about quitting the first set of slap and folds when the dough stops sticking to the counter.  It was sticking much but there was a bit left behind – so no worries.  By the time we finished up the slap and folds the dough came off the counter clean.


Can't remember the last time we had grilled lamb chops.

We incorporated the aromatic seeds into the dough on the first set of stretch and folds and they were thoroughly incorporated after the 3rd set.  The S&F’s were done on 15 minute intervals unlike the slap and folds.  We normally would put more aromatic seeds in this bread but we wanted to get a better feel for the difference in taste using 30% sprouted whole grains and didn’t want as much competition coming from the seeds.


Once the S&F’s were done, we shaped the dough into a boule rather than the typical Tzitzel batard.  It was immediately bagged in a trash can liner and placed in the fridge for a 20 retard but decided we would check it at 16 hours anyway.


We took th proofed dough out of the fridge at the 20 hour mark and let it warm up on the counter for an hour before firing up the Mini oven.  We got 2 of Sylvia’s steaming cups ready in the microwave, upended the dough onto parchment on the top vented cover of the MO’s broiler pan, slashed the boule T-Rex style and slid the whole assembly into he mini oven at 500 F for 15 minutes of steam.


After 4 minutes we turned the oven sown to 475 F.  It is nice to be baking Mini Oven Style again.  After the steam came out, we turned the oven down to 425 F convection this time and continued to bake another 12 minutes until the bread reached 210 F on the inside and was removed to the cooling rack.


We love a rich beef stew even in the hot Az summer.

This bread smelled great when it was baking and filling the kitchen with that aromatic seed smell known to make master bakers fall their knees crying and also so their apprentices can get to them to do a nose rip so no one knows what their master is crying about for sure.  Lucy is famous for her nose rips and my wife and I have the scars to prove it – think Chinatown.


This bread browned up very well, sprang a bit and bloomed enough to reveal the nasty dinosaur footprint.   It came out of the oven very crisp with small blisters.  We will have to see how the crumb came out after lunch.  We had to dig out some smoked pork from the fridge for today's lunch after we tasted this bread.  This might be the best high percent whole grin Jewish deli rye style bread we have ever made.  The crumb was open, soft and moist.  The subtle aromatic seeds came through just enough.  The sprouted grain gave the bread a more complex and deeper flavor.  This is one fine sandwich bread.  Can't wait to but some smoked corned beef on it.



RyeSD Starter Build

Build 1

Build 2

 Build 3



9 Week Retarded Rye Starter






15% Ext. Sprouted Rye & Wheat
























Starter Totals


















Starter Hydration






Levain % of Total Flour












Dough Flour






85% Ext. Sprouted  Rye & Wheat






KA Bread Flour






Total Dough Flour


















Sprout Water 180 & Water






Dough Hydration












Total Flour w/ Starter






Sprout Water 180 & Water w/ Starter












Total. Hydration with Starter






Total Weight






% Whole Grain - Sprouted Grain






Spice Mix






Red Malt






Hydration with Starter & Adds












Spice mix is 6 g caraway and 2 g each anise, corriander & fennel



And Lucy say's not forget the salad.

Bob S.'s picture
Bob S.

Brown Bread

Another loaf made using the "Sponge and Dough" method, only this time the sponge contained whole wheat flour and vital wheat gluten.

70% Stone Ground Red Whole Wheat Flour
5% Malted Milk Powder
2% Vital Wheat Gluten
0.5% Salt
0.6% Instant Yeast
0.18% Soy Lecithin Granules
73% Water (variable)

30% Bread Flour
4% Brown Sugar
3% Shortening
1.5% Salt

The method used is the same as in White Bread. The total amount of flour used in this recipe was 18 ounces (510 grams). The finished loaf weighed in at 2 pounds (907 grams). A Cuisinart DLC-2007 seven cup food processor was used in the production of this loaf.
The photo below shows the dough ingredients in the food processor work bowl before being blended with the metal chopping blade. After several pulses to blend the ingredients, they are dumped on top of the sponge and mixed by hand with a brotpisker (dough whisk).

The metal chopping blade was removed and replaced with the plastic dough blade. The roughly mixed dough is then dumped in the food processor work bowl as shown below:

As can be seen from the photo, the dough ingredients have not been completely incorporated into the sponge (yet). Once the food processor is turned on, all of the ingredients are incorporated within a few seconds. Total remix time: 45 seconds. After mixing, the dough is turned out and rounded as shown below:

After a short rest (known as "floor time") the dough is panned, proofed, and baked.