The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

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DEREKLJ's picture


Thank you so much to all of you who gave me some really good advice with making these rolls.

It's only taken me just over a year of disaster after disaster.

I think I now know where I was going wrong.

1) My dough was'nt the right consistency.

2) On the second proofing I left them too long.

3) the covering on the second proofing was too heavy and squashed the rolls down.

4) the oven was on 140c instead of 200c

The only problem I have now is that the rolls are tasting quite bland.

Any ideas please ?

Thank you all again


dabrownman's picture

Multi-grain Sourdough with Figs, Walnuts, Whey and 4 Seeds

We took last week's more tame bake and decided to gussie it up some.  There is just no way to hold my apprentice back when it comes to gussieness.  She decided to add some walnuts and re-hydrated black mission figs (one of our favorite combinations for fruit and nuts in bread) and some pumpkin and sunflowers seeds


These new additions went along with last week’s ground sesame and flax seeds, Toadies, red and white malts and VWG.  We cut back on some of the whey and white whole wheat flour and replaced them with more water and our special mix of 75% extraction home ground flour consisting of 25% rye, 25% spelt and 25% Kamut and 25% farro.


Since we again used the 25% sifted out bran portion to feed a smaller levain, we ended up with 85% whole grain bread instead of 100% like last week.  With all the fruit, nut and seed additions, I didn’t honk that Lucy would notice that some of the whole grain was missing.  We need some sifted bran and middlings for the next batch of Toadies.


Even though the 85% hydration was the same as last week’s bake the dough felt more wet and sticky.  This was probably due to some of the whole gain missing and that the re-hydrated figs may have carried some extra water with them.  In any even the dough was more slack for sure and hopefully this will open the crumb some more and still provide proper lift.


We followed a similar method to last week with one exception. We built the levain on Tuesday instead of Wednesday so that it could sit in the fridge for 48 hours to get more sour.  Since all of the whole grain bits were in the levain we autolysed the dough flours for 3 hours while the levain was warming up and finishing in final doubling.  The levain was refrigerated when it showed a 25% volume increase after the 3rd feeding.


We did 12 minutes of slap and folds since the dough felt slacker.  We incorporated the ground sesame and flax seeds, along with pumpkin and sunflower seeds, during the first set of (3) S&F’s that were performed 20 minutes apart.  The figs and the walnuts went in on the 2nd set and by the end of the 3rd set everything was well distributed.


After a short 15 minute rest the dough was pre-shaped and then shaped into a short squat batard to fit our oval basket and then it was placed into a used trash can liner and immediately retarded in the fridge for 20 1/2 hours.  It wasn’t quite were we wanted it when it came out of the fridge so we let it warm upon the counter an hour.


The dough was then un-molded on the parchment covered mini broiler top, slashed and  placed into the 500 F preheated mini oven that was steaming with 2 of Sylvia’s steaming cups and a ¼ cup of water thrown into the bottom of the mini oven as the door was closed.  Three minutes later we turned the oven own to 475 F.


We let the bread steam for 16 minutes before removing Sylvia’s steam generators and turning the oven down to 425 F, convection.   We rotated the bread every 5 minutes and in 25 minutes the bread tested 203 F when it was removed to a cooling rack.  So, this time the total bake was 41 minutes.


The bread bloomed OK but didn’t spring that much.  It might have been over proofed a little bit. It must have been that extra half and hour in the cold.  It browned well and had the crust that the mini oven puts on bread nearly every time but without the blisters.  The kitchen smelled like bake day for sure even without any aromatic seeds in the mix  - I knew my apprentice forgot something!

This bread is one that you won't forget.  Earthy, nutty, seedy, with a hint of sweet figs.... just plain tasty.  The crust is boldly baked, thick and it stayed crunchy too.  the crumb is soft moist and fairly open for a near whole grain bread with lots of stuff in it.  If you are all alone on a deserted island, this is the bread you want to have in your knapsack.  It made one of the tastiest grilled chicken sandwiches with the typical fruits and veggies, some pickled veg from the sausages last night and a slice of brie - Yummy!


Brunch with this bread the next morning.  Delicious!


Build 1

Build 2

 Build 3



Multigrain SD Starter






25% Extracted Bran
























Multigrain SD Levain






























Levain % of Total












Dough Flour






75% Extraction Multigrain






White Whole Wheat






Dough Flour


















Whey 135






Dough Hydration












Total Flour






Whey 135 & Water






T. Dough Hydration






% Whole Grain Flour












Hydration w/ Adds






Total Weight












Add - Ins






Red Malt






White Malt












Ground Flax & Sesame Seeds






Re-hydrated Figs












Pumpkin 25 & Sunflower Seeds






VW Gluten


















75% extraction multi-grain is: 25% kamut,




 25% Farro, 25%, spelt & 25% rye






sunhana's picture

Calling out to bakers from Kampen, netherlands - Vikornbrood

Is there any baker from Kampen? I am very interested with this special bread from this KLAPPE BAKERY in kampen, netherlands. The bread is known as vikornbrood.

I managed to get some helps from this nice baker, levine, from netherlands. She found out that this bread uses a premix from zeelandia ( It comprises of gluten flour, wholemeal, rye, oatmeal, corn, linseed, barley malt powder, sesame seeds and sunflower seeds. I tried to come up with my own premix that comprises of the 9 ingredients.

I've modifed levine's bruinbrood ( to use the premix to come up with my own vikornbrood. My bread turns out very nutty and soft/springy (as i modified to do prefermented dough too).

But somehow my friend said the bread is not what KLAPPE BAKERY has. If anyone has eaten this special bread from KLAPPE BAKERY before and has a close recipe to it, can kindly share? I myself has never eaten this bread but just amazed by the way my friend describes it. She said she is not a bread lover but only this bread she can eat half a loaf at one go. Just wonder what makes it so special.

sunhana's picture

Preferment dough in warm water "bath tub"

Does anyone know this method of SOAKING a prefermented dough in WARM WATER? i came across this method from the video clip ( The prefermented dough is left in a tub of warm water and let it slowly ferment. Once the dough floats to the surface of the water, it will be used to mix with the remainder ingredients.

I wonder what is this technique? wonder if by using this method, it will give better texture to the bread.

Will give this method a try as i love to try out new method to achieve better bread texture (without the use of bread conditioner/improver).

Allenph's picture

Souffle fell!

I'm new to baking, and it's probably ill advised but as you may know, I'm in it to make my OWN recipes. :)

After doing some research, I decided to go right for what I perceived as the holy grail, souffles. After doing some research, I came up with this.

My lemon souffle recipe is...

(4 Eggs)

1 Cup Sugar
1/2 Cup Lemon Juice
1/2 Cup Flour

Egg Whites
1/4 Sugar

What I did:

I started by separating the egg whites and the egg yolks, CERTAIN not to include any fats that might ruin my meringue in the form of dirty pans or yolk. Leaving the whites to warm to room temperature, I began working on the custard. I combined all of the ingredients, and beat them with a whisk until it was a smooth slightly thick liquid, close to the consistency of good hot chocolate. I then put my stove on the lowest heat setting, and cooked while constantly stirring for about 25 minutes, when it started to thicken slightly. I let it cool, and as it did it turned a perfect custard yellow, and took on a perfect consistency, while tasting slightly of flour. 

Then, while I waited for my custard to cool, I went to work on the meringue. I added the egg whites to a pristine stainless steel bread mixing bowl, washed my whisk thoroughly, dried it, as not to disturb the fluffing of my egg whites, and began beating. I beat them by hand for about thirty minutes, mostly because I'm a sentimental man, and I felt it would be almost sacrilegious to put so much work into something and use a machine to do it. As it took on a white color, and a texture similar to whipping cream, I added my 1/4 cup sugar in small increments, until I could lift up my whisk, turn it upside down, and have my meringue stay at about a 45 degree angle. Satisfied, I measured out 2 cups of the meringue, approximately half. I added it to a bowl and vigorously stirred it into an equal 2 cups of the now slightly above room temperature custard. I then took the other half of the meringue and gently folded it into the mixture I had already.

After thoroughly mixing, I heated the over to 400 degrees, and added the pan of my souffle batter. This pan mind you is not for souffles, it's a standard round, glass pan (See the picture I included.) that I thought would work. I set the timer for 25 minutes and practically tiptoed away after shutting the oven door gently. The timer went off, and I turned the oven light on to check the souffle. It was golden brown, slightly depressed in the middle, and not overflowing from the pan as I expected all though it had risen. I dared not leave it in any longer, and took it out gently only to spend about two or three hours for the result I posted above.

Not only did it not hold, but it tasted very "eggy."

Looking for pointers, is there anything I did wrong? Adjustments that need to be made to my recipe?

Thanks in advanced, I assume this is the right place, a souffle is "almost" a cake right? :)

Allenph's picture

New here! :D

Hi, my name is Allen Hundley. I'm a 17 year old web developer in Florida, and I have taken an interest in baking. :)

I know this is probably a terrible idea (It has turned out well so far.) but I've been creating my own recipes. I used information on this site, mainly all of the tutorials, and my first loaf was an attempt at a boule spiced bread, surprisingly it turned out, and I went out and bought more flour and yeast. :)

This first loaf was basically my attempt to see if I had learned anything from the tutorials, so I tried everything I thought I knew how to do. All though I foolishly did not write down the recipe, I do recall that other than the obvious ingredients I included whole milk, honey, olive oil, basil and oregano. I raised the bread three times, then basted with olive oil and egg before scoring, then popped it in the oven, steaming every 5-10 minutes. The result was outstanding, light thin crust, subtle taste of the herbs, rich flavor, etc. The one thing I did not like was that after the first few hours it was relatively dense, whether this was from insufficient needing on my first loaf or not, we will never know. In my next load I added an egg white to remedy this problem. 

I do have the recipe for my second loaf, which had an excellent taste, but was a terrible attempt at a batard. I'll probably be asking a lot of questions around here, thanks guys!

Canyongap's picture

Tartine Starter Question

I'm a newbie (both to this forum and to Tartine bread).  I'm on my second starter attempt and not sure if what I have is working.

i started with 50 grams of 50/50 white all purpose and wheat King Arthur flour and 50 grams of bottled water.  By the third day I had a mix that had risen at least double.  I stirred all of it together, then discarded about 75 to 80%, leaving about 25 to 30 grams of starter, which I then fed with 50 grams of the 50/50 mix and 50 grams of water.  Covered with a single layer towel.  24 hours later it had risen about 300%.  I repeated the feeding.  Almost no activity for the next 7 to 8 days except for some bubbles around the edge.  Now, after about 10 days, I'm getting bubbles around the edge and a rise of about 50% after 10 to 12 hours, but it doesn't drop.  It's still at that level (or close) after 24 hours.  I'm still feeding every 24 hours, but unsure why the rise doesn't drop.  It stinks somewhat after 24 hours, not much odor after feeding.  Temperature is about 74 degrees, sitting in a fairly dark corner with no drafts.

Would appreciate your thoughts.  Thanks.







FatTony's picture

Please help! Wholemeal bread keeps sinking?

Hi all,

Hopefully someone can help me as I am tearing my hair out trying to figure out what is going wrong?

Every single wholemeal loaf I try to make in my breadmaker, sinks on the 3rd rise/bake? I have tried numerous recipes, different flours, less liquid, more liquid, hot, warm & cold water, less yeast etc... all to no avail? They always taste good but they look awful. I have even tried a different breadmaker. 

My white bread is great and looks & tastes really nice so I know that the machines are not faulty? 

Can anyone offer any tips, as surely you must be able to make a decent wholemeal loaf otherwise what's the point off having the function on the machines?

Thanks in advance. 

JDavidG's picture

First Post

I am a relatively new baker of bread from WV, USA. Saw this site this morning ... read a few of the posts and feel ... not so alone. None of my friends or acquaintances bake bread (or much else from scratch) and it is great to find so many who share my interest. Most of my efforts have gone well but I'll be back soon to get help for, at least, one issue.

I just want to stop and say, "Hello" to the Fresh Loaf community. And ... thanks for being here.



108 breads's picture
108 breads

Sourdough Starter - Loosey Goosey Approach

I do not measure. I go on vacation. Here's how I started and now maintain my happy, healthy, bubbly starter. And no, I am not raising it to be independent and go to college. The starter is a productive pet. (Photo is from a Roman mosaic at the Art Institute in Chicago.)