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thihal123's picture
thihal123

Help with bread from The Village Baker (Pain de Seigle sur Poolish)

I need some help with a recipe in Joe Ortiz's "The Village Baker" book, in particular his pain de seigle sur poolish (sponge-method rye bread). It seems to me his recipe measurment is way off. I like to convert his recipe from volume measurment to weight measurment. The first time I made this bread, I first measured almost everything in volume and then recorded the weight measurment. Turned out the dough was so wet (like 88% hydration!) I had to keep adding flour (about 2 cups additional) to make this even work with the slap-and-fold technique.

Here is Ortiz's original recipe on page 114:

The Poolish

2 packages (2 scant tablespoons, 1/2 oz.) active dry yeast

2 cups water

1 cup organic, unbleached white (or all-purpose) flour

1 cup rye flour

The Dough

1 1/2 cups warm water

All of the poolish from previous step

2 cups rye flour

2 cups organic, unbleached white (or all-purpose) flour

1 tablespoon salt

Glaze: 1 egg wisked up with 1 tablespoon milk

----------------------------------- 

Here is what I recorded after weighing almost each volume measurment:

The Poolish

1 tablespoon active dry yeast (I think it is a misprint to say 2 packages of yeast is 2 tablespoons. 1 package is only 1/4 oz, so two packages is 1/2 oz which is way less than 2 tablespoons! First error in Ortiz's recipe above).

473g water

125g white flour

128g rye flour

The Dough

355g cups warm water

All of the poolish from previous step

256g rye flour

250g white flour

1 tablespoon salt

Glaze: 1 egg wisked up with 1 tablespoon milk

 

When I got to the dough stage (i.e., after incorporating the poolish) the dough was still unworkable. I had to incorporate an additional 2 cups of flour to make this workable even for the slap-and-fold method. Turns out the dough, before the additional 2 cups of water, was 108% hydration!! (Total flour = 801g, Total water = 823g, which equals 108% hydration). No wonder it was not workable!

So, can anyone help me figure out where Ortiz's recipe error is, and how do I correct it? I like the method of making this rye bread.

bakingbadly's picture
bakingbadly

Beginner taking on wild yeast starter: am I on the right track?

Hello sourdough enthusisasts! I need your help!

For the first time, I'm attempting to cultivate wild yeast as a sourdough starter. However, it's been 8 days since its inception, and my starter is beginning to behave abnormally, at least from my perspective.

Using the "pineapple juice method" described by Debra Wink, I am now in the phase of feeding my starter AP flour (technically speaking, type 55 flour). However, in the past two days, a thin layer of clear liquid had appeared--hooch, I believe.

On the first day of the hooch's appearance, I fed my starter at the ratio of 1:1:1 (prior to that, 2:1:1). On the next day, the hooch appeared again, so yesterday night I increased the feeding ratio to 1:2:2.

I had checked my starter this morning and... it was less lively. No hooch, a few bubbles were atop and none when viewed from the side of my plastic jar, but it didn't increase in volume--it actually decreased in volume! I noticed, additionally, that the starter smelled slightly less fruity and tasted less tangy. Although, the sourness wasn't strong to begin with--very faint--but I still noticed that the tang was a tad weaker.

Unsure of what to do, I chose not to feed the starter that morning, stirred it up, and left it covered with a cloth.

Other relevant details:

Frequency of feeding: twice a day. (I cannot feed my starter more often than that as I work during the day and sometimes early evening.)

Temperature range: 28C to 30C (I cannot reduce this temperature without using an air conditioner. I live in Cambodia, a sometimes very hot and humid country.)

My question: Am I on the right track? And should I consider anything when raising my starter in very warm conditions?

Thank you in advance. Any help will be greatly appreciated. 

FlourChild's picture
FlourChild

Starter is ailing- what medicine do you recommend?

Recently my firm starter developed a spoiled smell- it has all the smells and appearances of a healthy starter (rises predictably, no visible discoloration, etc.), but added to that is a definite spoiled smell that I would never put in bread.  I would describe it as similar to the smell of spoiled milk.  The smell is much stronger in the early part of fermentation, after a feed, than it is later in the process. 

Luckily, I had a back up in the fridge (I maintain my ongoing culture at room temp) which sprung back to life easily and quickly and is doing well, so I am able to be relaxed about what is going on with that smell.  

My first approach was to let the smelly starter sit for two days after a feed, hoping that the desireable microbes would win out over the undesireables.  That didn't work.  My second approach was to let it go even longer- three days at room temp- after a feed, in hopes that a little alcohol or ketones or something in a underfed, overripe starter might help kill off whatever has taken root in there.   That didn't work, either.

So now I'm curious to experiment with it to see if I can find a fix:  what sort of medicine would you recommend?  I'm thinking of things like salt, freezing, lemon juice, etc.  I'll probably divide it up and try a different approach in each jar.  Thoughts?  Suggestions?  Advice?

 

Juergen Krauss's picture
Juergen Krauss

My oven setup (fan-only oven)

I have got a very simple fan-only oven (BEKO), and it took me a while figure out how to put it to its best use - with lots of inspiration from TFL.

This is how I bake my bread:

Usually use an oven stone and a metal baking sheet.

You can see the backplate of the oven cavity in the picture below - the shelf positions and the hot air outlets are highlighted:

I noticed that airflow changes a lot when loading the oven in different ways - it is not always the bit nearest to an outlet that gets burnt first!

I am now using 2 basic setups that work well. In both scenarios I have a small pan on the oven floor into which I pour boiling water (about 1/4 cup) once the oven has been loaded. The oven keeps moisture very well, and using more water cools it down too much.

Scenario 1: For a batch of 4 X 500g boules or 2X 800g boules or up to 6X 500g tins:

The baking stone receives a lot of heat from below and stays hot during the bake. The side of the boules facing the backplate gets more heat.

Therefore after 10 minutes I shuffle the breads around: turning them 180 deg. and sqapping the loaves on the stone with the loaves on the baking sheet. Usually I turn down the temperature at this point and bake for another 20 minutes. The bottoms of the loaves that started on the baking sheet might still be3 weak after that, so I usually turn those loaves over and bake them for 5 more minutes.

Scenario 2: For a batch of 1 X 100g or 2 X 500g

I place the loaf (loaves) on the baking stone, and rotate them after 10 minutes.

The baking sheet helps distributing the hot air and helps getting a more consistent bake.

 

I hope this might be helpful,

Juergen

 

GSnyde's picture
GSnyde

Hamelman's Whole Wheat with Mixed Grain Soaker and Seeds

Seeking a hardy healthy bread, I decided to try Hamelman's Whole Wheat with Mixed Grain Soaker.  It's 50% whole wheat, made with a pate' fermente', and has a soaker of millet, cracked wheat, corn meal and oats.  I also added toasted sesame, sunflower and pumpkin seeds.  It has a nice crispy crust, tender crumb and a wonderful nutty flavor.  This will not be the last time I make it.

Sorry for the lack of detail, but it's been a busy weekend.

Glenn

BurntMyFingers's picture
BurntMyFingers

Three-way miche taste test... results!

Last week I did a three-way miche taste test, with the same formula using three different flours: King Arthur High Extraction, King Arthur First Clear, and a blend of 60% KA Bread Flour/40% KA Whole Wheat Flour. Here are what the loaves looked like:

Clockwise from the top they are First Clear, Hi-X and the hybrid.

My judges were Michael London, a very well-known baker in upstate New York, and Cindy Corbett, an accomplished home baker with a wood fired oven in her back yard whom I'd met at a KAF workshop. The results of the taste test are detailed on my blog at http://wp.me/p1S3Ig-kY . But to give you a preview, the High-X and First Clear finished neck and neck with the hybrid well behind but still a good choice for the baker who doesn't have access to these other flours.

One of the reasons I'd wanted to do this test was some discussion on TFL in which First Clear and High-X are discussed as equivalents. They're not, per Martin Philip, the staff baker at KAF who provided me with research and advice: "In terms of comparing Type 110 with an ~85% extraction rate to First Clear which lacks the patent portion would be to compare apples and oranges at least from a functional standpoint (the patent portion contains the highest quality protein in the endosperm). " Yet the finished loaves were very close in nose, texture and taste and after a few days I couldn't tell them apart.

I am now doing a follow-up test with the KAF Hi-X pitted against Type 85 Malted from Central Milling. Stay tuned.

 

clazar123's picture
clazar123

Some scientific validation for health claims about sourdough bread

So here is a credible scientific study where they start to validate claims that it is possible for sourdough bread to have a reduced glycemic index and may be better tolerated (digestively) by some people with celiac disease. This was dated 2002 but I have never seen this study.

It is a lot to wade through but I am encouraged to see real science used to study this subject.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC126681/

clazar123's picture
clazar123

So what is happening when kefir deteriorates a dough?

I am putting this in Sourdough because I think it is a lactobacillus issue and I think this audience may have a good understanding of what is happening.

Whenever I use kefir in making bread (any bread-WW,AP,Bread Flour), I find I am rescuing the loaf as the gluten strands are breaking as it rises for the final proof.  I have come to expect that a long rising (as in an overnight retard) WW will experience this consistently so I no longer use kefir for that loaf. Having an abundance of kefir last week, I thought I'd put together a quick, single loaf sandwich bread using a sourdough preferment (1 c flour-1 c water-2 tbsp starter set overnight), 1 tsp instant yeast and using 1 c kefir for the liquid in the final dough (not the preferment). No measurements were precise in this loaf-quick throw together-flour,water,milk,salt,oil,preferment,yeast. Nice soft dough with goodfeeling qualities.Set it to rise and the bulk fermentation was less than 2 hours and already there were some tear marks on the dough as it rose to double. It shaped nicely. I did not overhandle it but the dough had started to feel a little fragile. As the loaves rose for the final proof, there was noticeably more tearing. I let them proof as long as I dared (prob could have gone 10 more minutes) and baked them. The loaves were just ok-a little underproved.

I use standard,brand name AP flour (unbleached-prob Pillsbury or Gold Medal), homemade kefir, SAF instant yeast,homegrown starter,table salt and vegetable oil. Loaves with the same ingredients but NO kefir do just fine. I have narrowed it down to this over time.

So what is actually happening when this happens? Is there any way to counteract it?

Ideas?

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

Banana Nut Bread with Seeds, Chocolate and Bourbon Dried Fruits

We have made banana bread a couple of times the last 2 weeks.  One we made cupcakes with cream cheese icing and this time as a bare loaf.  Ours isn't the normal BNB.  We add chocolate chips and chopped dark bar chocolate, pumpkin seeds, sunflower seeds, bourbon re-hydrated dried, sultanas, raisins, cranberries, prunes, and apricots.  The nuts include, walnuts, almonds and cashews with a splash of walnut oil.  iced or no - these are some seriously good  cupcakes or plain slices of sweet BNB.

 

Our recipe today was too big for a loaf pan so we made 6 cupcakes too.

Brownman’s Banana Bread or Cupcakes

Preheat oven to 350 degrees.

Dry Mix:

1 ½ C plus 2 T flour

¼ tsp salt

1/8 tsp each ginger, cloves, allspice

1 tsp each cinnamon and nutmeg

1 tsp baking soda

¼ tsp baking powder

1 C chopped walnuts, almonds, pumpkin and sunflower seeds

1 C chopped chocolate chips

Bourbon Fruit – add bourbon to below dried fruits in a Pyrex 1 cup measuring cup covered with plastic wrap.  Microwave on high for 30 seconds and set aside 15 minutes to plump up fruits.

 2 T bourbon

¼ C raisins and sultanas

¼ C dried cranberries

¼ C dried apricots cut into raisin size pieces

1/4 C prunes - chopped

 Wet Mix:

 3 mashed up ripe bananas

1/8 cup sour cream

1 tsp vanilla

2 eggs

½ C vegetable oil

½ C each brown and white sugar

1 T walnut oil

 Add ½ C sugar, ½ C brown sugar and Bourbon fruits to wet mix and stir until sugar is dissolved.  Mix the wet into the dry and stir 50 times with spatula until the flour is incorporated.

Bake cupcakes for about 12-16 minutes until wooden toothpick comes out clean.  Loaves will take 45 minutes or more for wooden skewer to come out clean. 

After 20 minutes remove from pans and let cool completely on wire racks.  Ice both with cream cheese vanilla icing and put sprinkles on each to decorate per the holiday or special occasion.  Makes about 21 cupcakes or 1 large bread loaf pan.

Cream Cheese Frosting for Cupcakes or 9x13 Cake

Ingredients

1/2 C butter, softened

1 (8-oz.) package cream cheese, softened

1 (16-oz.) package powdered sugar

1 tsp vanilla extract

Preparation

Beat butter and cream cheese at medium speed with an electric mixer until creamy. Gradually add powdered sugar, beating at low speed until blended; stir in vanilla.

Cut recipe in half for 20 Cupcakes or 9x13 sheet cake .

 

 

 

aster's picture
aster

Good recipe for everyday sandwich bread?

Hey all, new to the forum - moderately experienced home cook but a definite novice in the baking arena.

My first goal is to produce a tasty general sandwich bread, just your basic unbleached white type deal. Unfortunately all my early attempts have met with very mediocre results, so thought to see what you folks have to say.

I've been working from the basic sandwich bread in James Peterson's "Baking" book (after enjoying his similar introductory book "Cooking"). The results are inevitably a fairly dense loaf with small uniformly-shaped crumb - 'insipid' might be too harsh a word, but it comes pretty close to that. Have tried changing the wetness of the dough, used both dry activated and fresh block yeast, used both a loaf pan and rustic shaping (though the latter ended up spreading more than rising), etc, exact same results.

Could it be the recipe or is there some essential technique I'm missing? My girlfriend is starting to laugh at me from loaf after loaf of dense sponge brick! I'm not looking for beautiful artisan sourdoughs yet, just a sandwich bread that's airy, has some varied 'holes', and just a tiny bit of character... any suggestions - recipe or technique - would be much appreciated.

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