The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

YW

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dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

This bake was meant to be a one day bread from start to finish that was still a tasty multi grain bread with soft white wheat, spelt, rye, WW, WWW and AP flours, 2 levains SD and YW, a WW berry scald, some fennel, anise and pumpkin seeds with ¼ tsp of ground cumin.  It has a 4 hour autolyse while the levains are being built, a short 1 hr fermentation and then final proof in a floured basket that took almost 3 hours.  It was a lovely looking bread since I didn't use a cloth for this basket.  The crust is crunchy crisp and nicely browned but we will have to wait for it to cool to see how these 2 quick levains worked together.

The crumb came out moderately open, very moist due to the YW.  The taste and texture was very nice with the pumpkin seeds and WW scald.  The normal 3 day developed SD tang was not there but just a hint of sour to go along with the light anise, fennel and cumin taste.  Ummm.... the smell was devine.  Very nice bread overall.  Had it for breakfast toast this morning - great with butter and apple ginger jam on another slice.

Formula and method after the pix's.

Soft White Wheat, Spelt, Seeded SD YW Bread

 The SD and YW levains were built over 2 stages of 2 hours each.  During this 4 hour period the flour’s, cumin, malts, VWG and water were autolysed in the mixing bowl.  The WW berries were also scalded and reserved on the counter to soak for 4 hours until needed.

 At the 4 hour mark all of the ingredients were incorporated in the mixing bowl with the exception of the seeds and scald.  The dough was mixed for 9 minutes on KA 2 .  Then the remainder of the ingredients were added  and mixed on KA 2 for 1 minute.

The dough was placed into a plastic covered oiled bowl to rest for 15 minutes.  4 S&F’s were performed at 15 minute intervals on a floured work surface with the dough returned to the covered oiled bowl in between each S&F.

 Let rest for 1 hour then form into a boule and place in a floured basket to proof in a plastic bag for 2-3 hours until it doubles.

 Preheat oven at 500 F for 45 minutes with stone steam in place.  Overturn basket onto parchment on a peel.  Slash as desired and slide bread into the oven.  After 4 minutes turn down to450 F.  After 12 more minutes, remove steam and turn down oven to 425 F convection this time.  Turn boule 90 degrees every 5 minutes and  bake until temperature in the middle of the bread is 205 F.  Turn off oven and crack the door to allow the crust to crisp for 12 more minutes.  Remove bread from the oven and let cool on a wire rack.

Soft White Wheat, Spelt, Seeded SD YW Bread    
     
SD Starter     Build 1    Build 2    Total      %
SD Starter200204.26%
Rye200204.26%
WWW200204.26%
AP025255.32%
Water40105010.64%
Total1003513528.72%
     
YW Starter    Build 1   Build 2    Total      %
Yst Water400408.51%
Soft White400408.51%
AP 025255.32%
Water010102.13%
Total803511524.47%
     
Starters        %  
Flour14029.79%  
Water11023.40%  
Hydration78.57%0.00%  
Levain % of Total 25.64%  
     
Dough Flour         %  
Soft White Wheat7515.96%  
Spelt255.32%  
White WW306.38%  
Bread Flour10021.28%  
AP10021.28%  
Dough Flour33070.21%  
Salt71.49%  
Water23550.00%  
Dough Hydration71.21%   
     
Add - Ins    
1/4 tsp Cumin        %  
Honey71.49%  
Mashed Potato6814.47%  
Red Rye Malt20.43%  
White Rye Malt30.64%  
VW Gluten51.06%  
Pepitas357.45%  
3-Anise/ 5-Fennel81.70%  
Total12827.23%  
     
Scald       %  
Spelt255.32%  
     
Total Flour470   
Total Water345   
T. Dough Hydrat.73.40%   
     
Hydration w/ Adds79.69%   
Total Weight975  

 

 

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

I've been searching for a a nice sesame and poppy seeded hamburger bun that would stand up to our monthly, stacked,  piled high burger by not falling apart while still having a soft moist crumb that toasted up well.  I took Sylvia's bun recipe for a starting point and converted it to YW from commercial yeast.  Then we thought we would make some retarded cinnamon rolls out of the same dough since it seemed like the thing to do and a nice fit. 

The YW levain was strong after the 2nd build at at the 8 hour mark.  Right after the 3rd build I refrigerated it overnight.  The YW levain was stronger than we thought and it tripled in volume in the fridge.  Amazing beasts they are!

The next morning we mixed everything together in the KA, it is a sticky wet 77% hydration dough and then developed and fermented the dough doing S & F's on a floured work surface which cuts the stickiness and makes the dough managable at the end of the S & F's at 68% hydration.  It was 85 F in the kitchen when we got to the point of splitting off the 2 hamburger buns from the rest of the dough.   The buns were raised on the counter in the  4" ramekins they would be baked in - eventually.  The steamed mini oven at 400 F to start was perfect for them.  There is a formula and method to follow the pictures.  They ending up being just what we wanted.  The seeded Buns tasted great, didn't fall apart and toasted well.  The fix'ins included; wedge sweet and regular potato fries, caramelized onions and mushrooms, baked BBW beans, roasted poblano pepper, tomato and lettuce.  Why no bacon ?

Coat that Pyrex with non stick spray first or you will be sorry !

The remainder of the dough was rolled out to accept the filling and then rolled up from the short side to make a log that was sliced into 12 pieces.  The rolls were placed into a 9x13 Pyrex baking dish and placed into the fridge for an 18 hour rise.  I expected them to double and they did at least that - no worries.  Baked them off at 350 F straight out of the fridge with some butter smeared on top before they went into the oven.  When they were nice and browned, out they came to receive a nice cream cheese icing to gild the lily.  They were delicious - the best ever.  Now the same dough makes hamburger buns too.  A 2'fer.

Yeast Water Hamburger Buns and Cinnamon rolls     
      
YW StarterBuild 1Build 2 Build 3Total%
Yeast Water50252510018.18%
Soft White0050509.09%
WWW2500254.55%
AP25250509.09%
Total100507522540.91%
      
Starter %   
Flour12522.73%   
Water10018.18%   
Hydration80.00%    
Levain % of Total 19.43%   
      
Dough Flour %   
Bread Flour32559.09%   
Soft White Wheat 10018.18%   
Dough Flour42577.27%   
Salt81.45%   
Water24544.55%   
Dough Hydration57.65%    
      
Add - Ins     
Mashed Potato7012.73%   
Honey101.82%   
Sugar356.36%   
Egg509.09%   
Butter7012.73%   
Milk Powder203.64%   
Add in Total25546.36%   
      
Total Flour550    
Total Water345    
T. Dough Hydrat.62.73%    
      
Hydration w/ Adds77.28%    
Total Weight1,158    
Bench Flour for S & F's70
Hydration w/ S&F Flour68.83%

 

 Method

 The YW levain is built over 3 stages  the first 2 stages are 4 hours each.  After the third stage is added at the 8 hour mark the levain is refrigerated overnight.  It will triple in volume while in the fridge.

 In the morning mix the rest of the ingredients with the levain in the mixing bowl.  Knead with a dough hook on KA 2 for 8 minutes.  Then increase speed to KA 3 for 2 minutes.  move to a plastic covered, oiled bowl.  Do 6 S & Fs at 15 minute intervals on a floured work surface returning the dough each time to a plastic covered bowl to rest.   This wet dough will firm up nicely.  Let rest on the counter for 1 hour after the last S&F.

 At this point I cut off enough dough to make 2 hamburger buns in4”ramekins.  These were allowed to rise on the counter until doubled in size.  A milk, water and egg yolk glaze was brushed on top and sesame and poppy seeds were sprinkled on.  They were then baked in a 400 F steamed mini oven for 10 minutes. The steam was then removed and the oven temperature turned down to 350 F convection this time.  After 5 minutes the ramekins were turned 180 degrees and baked another 5 minutes.  The buns were then removed from the ramekins and finished baking in 5 more minutes turning 180 degrees at the 2 and half minute mark.  The buns were then allowed to cool on a wire rack.

 The remainder of the dough was rolled out to ¼” thick rectangle and brushed with soft butter.  The filling was then added and the dough rolled up from the wide end.  

 Filling

 ¼ C each brown and white sugar

¼ C each dried apples, apricots, cranberries and raisins reconstituted in 1 T each of Bourbon and water.

¼ tsp each of allspice and cloves

1 tsp each nutmeg and cinnamon

1/2 C each chopped walnuts and chopped chocolate chips.

After rolling, the dough log was cut into 12 equal pieces and placed into a 9”x13” Pyrex baking pan, covered with plastic and put into the fridge to retard overnight.  It should double in volume overnight.  Remove from fridge and brush tops with soft butter.

 Bake off straight from the fridge at 350 F until nicely browned.  Spread cream cheese frosting on top

 Frosting 

8 oz powdered sugar

4 oz each cream cheese and softened butter

½ tsp of vanilla.

 Mix everything together with a hand blender and spread on top of the warm cinnamon rolls.

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

I wanted to make some YW rolls that had a pretzel twist so we made some pretzel bread crumbs and used them to stick to the outside of some 15% White WW yeast water rolls.   We made some rolls using 4 little balls of dough per roll and some knotted rolls.  All were; retarded overnight, proofed and baked in ramekins.  Also cut the salt in half since the pretzel crumbs were very salty.

The rolls were baked in my mini convection oven with stream and came out nicely browned, blistered, crunchy crusted with a soft moist crumb.  The pretzels were hardly noticeable,  The next time we will use the pretzel crumbs as altus to get more pretzel taste.  Will also enrich the dough with egg, cream and butter to make a nice hamburger bun  for version 2.  Cut in 3rds, toasted and buttered these are pretty tasty.  Formula and method follow the pix's.

YW Fake Pretzel Rolls    
      
YW Starter     
 Build 1Build 2 Build 3Total%
Yeast Water30403010023.81%
AP Flour30405012028.57%
Total60808022052.38%
      
Starter %   
Flour12028.57%   
Water10023.81%   
Hydration83.33%    
Levain % of Total 29.97%   
      
Dough Flour %   
White WW5011.90%   
AP25059.52%   
Dough Flour30071.43%   
Salt40.95%   
Water21050.00%   
Dough Hydration70.00%    
      
Total Flour420    
Total Water310    
T. Dough Hydrat.73.81%    
      
Total Weight734    

Yeast Water Fake Pretzel Rolls

 Build the levain in 3 stages 4 hours each for a total of 12 hours.  Retard the levain 12 hours.

 Mix the flours with the water and autolyse for 12 hours.

 Make pretzel bread crumbs.

 Mix the levain and the autolyse with the salt for 6 minutes on KA 3.  Move to an oiled plastic wrap covered bowl and rest for 20 minutes.  Do the first of 6 S & F’s on a lightly floured surface at 20 minute interval returning to the covered oiled bowl.  After last S & F let ferment in the oiled bowl on the counter for 1 hour  Form into knots or roll of your choice, 4 balls  ( I did some of each).  Dunk individual balls or or bow ties into pretzel breadcrumbs and place in (6) ramekins covered in plastic wrap - then refrigerate 12 hours or overnight.

 Remove from fridge and let come to room temp.  Once rolls have doubled in size from the time they went into the fridge they are ready to bake -  mine took about 2 hours.

 I baked mine in my Cuisinart mini oven with a 1 cup Pyrex cup half full of water in the back and I threw ½ C of boiling water in the bottom.  Pre heat oven at 500 F regular bake.  Put rolls in and steam for 10 minutes.  Remove steam, turn down to 400 F convection  and bake for 5 more minutes.  Remove from ramekins and bake for 5 more minutes or so until center reaches 205 F.   Move to cooling rack until room temperature.  

 

 

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

This lunch was made with the 20% whole grain baggies.  After a busy weekend doing nothing much, it was nice to have some ready made sammy materials to use for lunch.  This YW bread was made for flavor as opposed for holes.  It came out of the freezer in good shape.

Had some left over grilled Japanese eggplant to go with leftover Holiday Ham, last nights salad, half a tomato, last of the brie cheese, home made Dijon mustard and some mayo.

After the Sammy was piled high, a couple of different home made pickles, a lovely left over polenta made with garbanzo flour instead of corn, Parmesan, Pecorino, Feta, Swiss chard, chipotle pepper and sun dried tomato.  Pink Lady apple slices left over from feeding the YW, (I wonder why there are no Brownmen apples to go wih the Pink Ladies - they must be lonely), some sliced carrots, olives and a dolop of the last of some home made hot sauces (red and green mixed) at one end of the polenta.  A very nice leftover lunch to remember.

 

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

I have been wanting to do some whole rye and whole wheat SD baguettes that has at least 20% whole grains.  I wasn't going for holes but for taste.  The starter was a Rye and WW one as well.   I also told teketeke that I would try her baguettes she makes with YW and I am becoming a real YW convert  Since her baggies are YW using white flours, this doesn't qualify for doing hers yet but I didn't want her to think I had forgotten. The SD is nice and sour and YW is not.  Both have the same moist crumbthat is fairly open for so much whole flours.   I am OK with the slashing and know it could have been worse. :-)  The YW did spring slightly more.

Below left is SD and Right is YW.

Slash of SD below

Slash on the YW

Crumb shots follow SD top adn YW bottom

Close ups YW first

SD below

Below SD is on top

Method was the same for both.  Levain build in 3 stages over 12 hours and then retarded in the refrigerator overnight.  The next morning the levains were allowed to sit out on the counter for 1 hour to warm up.  The entire levain was placed in the mixer with half of the flour, 75% of the water and the rye malt.  This is mixed on KA 4 with the wisk for 4 minutes.  Then it autolysed for 30 minutes covered.

The rest of the flour and water is added and the dough hook goes on to knead for 4 minutes on KA 3.  Then the salt goes in and you knead on KA 3 for 2 more minutes.  The dough goes into a covered and oiled bowl to rest.  5 S& F's are done on an oiled counter 4 times every 15 minutes.  The the dough is formed into a ball and sits in the covered oiled bowl on the counter for an hour and half before going into the fridge for 22 hours. 

The next morning the dough sits on the counter for 1 1/2 hours to warm up and then is shaped, placed in a floured couche and then into a plastic bag for final proofing.  Mine took 3 hours. 

Preheat at 500 F regular bake with stone and steam in place.  Slash the baguettes and put into the oven to steam for 8 minutes.  Remove steam, turn down to 450 F convection and bake for another 8 min or so until done.  Here are the formulas.

YW Baggies  - All numbers in grams          
              
SD Starter     Dough Flour % Multigrain Sprouts%
 Build 1B 2 B 3Total% Rye303.89% Buckwheat 0.00%
SD Starter   00.00% WW303.89% WW 0.00%
Rye   00.00% Buckwheat 0.00% Rye 0.00%
WW   00.00% Spelt 0.00% Bulgar 0.00%
Buckwheat   00.00% Farro 0.00% Barley 0.00%
Dark Rye   00.00% Barley 0.00% Spelt 0.00%
WWW   00.00% 6 Grain Cereal 0.00% Water 0.00%
Bread Flour   00.00% Millet 0.00% Total Sprouts00.00%
AP   00.00% Amranth 0.00%    
Water   00.00% Lentils 0.00% Scald  
Total00000.00% Dark Rye 0.00% Buckwheat 0.00%
       Semolina 0.00% WW 0.00%
YW Starter     Bulgar 0.00% Rye 0.00%
 Build 1B 2 B 3Total% Oats 0.00% Bulgar 0.00%
Yst Water60301010012.95% White WW 0.00% Barley 0.00%
Rye   00.00% Potato Flakes50.65% Spelt 0.00%
WW   00.00% Ground Flax Seed 0.00% Water 0.00%
Buckwheat   00.00% Bread Flour 0.00% Total Scald00.00%
Dark Rye   00.00% AP25032.38%    
WWW   00.00% Dough Flour31540.80% Add - Ins  
Bread Flour   00.00% Salt70.91% Barley Malt 0.00%
AP60303012015.54% 50% Water/ Whey21527.85% Molasses 0.00%
Water   00.00% Dough Hydration68.25%  Honey 0.00%
Total120604022028.50%     Olive Oil 0.00%
       Total Flour435  Egg 0.00%
Total Starters     Total Water315  Red Rye Malt 0.00%
  %  0.1724 T. Dough Hydrat.72.41%  White Rye Malt151.94%
Flour12015.54%        VW Gluten 0.00%
Water10012.95%    Hydration w/ Adds70.00%  Sunflower Seeds 0.00%
Hydration83.33%     Total Weight772  Nuts00.00%
Levain % of Total28.50%        Total151.94%

 

SD Baggies  - All numbers in grams

          
              
SD Starter     Dough Flour % Multigrain Sprouts%
 Build 1Build 2 Build 3Total% Rye303.65% Buckwheat 0.00%
SD Starter20  202.43% WW 0.00% WW 0.00%
Rye  10101.22% Buckwheat 0.00% Rye 0.00%
WW 10 101.22% Spelt 0.00% Bulgar 0.00%
Buckwheat   00.00% Farro 0.00% Barley 0.00%
Dark Rye   00.00% Barley 0.00% Spelt 0.00%
WWW   00.00% 6 Grain Cereal 0.00% Water 0.00%
Bread Flour   00.00% Millet 0.00% Total Sprouts00.00%
AP80202012014.60% Amranth 0.00%    
Water60302011013.38% Lentils 0.00% Scald  
Total160605027032.85% Dark Rye 0.00% Buckwheat 0.00%
       Semolina 0.00% WW 0.00%
YW Starter     Bulgar 0.00% Rye 0.00%
 Build 1Build 2 Build 3Total% Oats 0.00% Bulgar 0.00%
Yst Water   00.00% White WW303.65% Barley 0.00%
Rye   00.00% Potato Flakes50.61% Spelt 0.00%
WW   00.00% Ground Flax Seed 0.00% Water 0.00%
Buckwheat   00.00% Bread Flour 0.00% Total Scald00.00%
Dark Rye   00.00% AP25030.41%    
WWW   00.00% Dough Flour31538.32% Add - Ins  
Bread Flour   00.00% Salt70.85% Barley Malt 0.00%
AP   00.00% 50% Water/ Whey21526.16% Molasses 0.00%
Water   00.00% Dough Hydration68.25%  Honey 0.00%
Total00000.00%     Olive Oil 0.00%
       Total Flour465  Egg 0.00%
Total Starters     Total Water335  Red Rye Malt 0.00%
  %  0.2043 T. Dough Hydrat.72.04%  White Rye Malt151.82%
Flour15018.25%        VW Gluten 0.00%
Water12014.60%    Hydration w/ Adds69.79%  Sunflower Seeds 0.00%
Hydration80.00%     Total Weight822  Nuts00.00%
Levain % of Total32.85%        Total15

1.82

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

The retarded loaf came out almost identical to the non retarded one.  It was perhaps a little more sour.  Tasting the non retarded one from yesterday, it is more sour today and about the same sour as the retarded one just out of the oven.  I would guess the retarded boule will be even more sour tomorrow too.  This bread is hard to make but worth it.  I never had a bread that tastes like it, the crust is dark and softens as it cools, the crumb is moist and open, for 40% whole grain bread.  It is one of the best breads I have ever had, much less baked.  it just looks great too with the dark crust and deep yellow crumb.  Here some pix's of the retarded version 5 of  Brachflachen Mehrere Vollkombrot.

Pre-shaped

Passes poke test

Slashed

Just out of the oven

Can you find the hairs?

Crumb and crust close up

Preparing for a

Nice lunch of grilled turkey franks on super-grain challah with cheese, pickled peppers and mustard, pickles, tomatoes,  apples and a home grown salad.

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

This is version 5 of my SD multi-grain challah called Brachflachen Mehrere Vollkombrot but wanted to make a special one this year - that non Jews would like - by Easter.  I added; whey water, a Yeast Water levain on top of the SD one, sunflower seeds,  white diastatic rye malt, malted barley, lentils, vital wheat gluten and various sprouted grains while cutting back on; the egg,  molasses and honey.  The crust came out lighter than usual but was still very dark and thick but soft after it cooled.  The crumb was more moist, more open, even with 40% whole grain and more interesting with the the sunflower seeds and the sprouted berries.  The taste is far superior and everything I would want in this bread.  It its a lot of work but you will be rewarded with a fine Holliday bread.  The method and formula follows the pix's.  I had an identical boule retarding in the fridge overnight, have now baked it off and those pictures will follow at the very end. I also added the 20 g of Pink Himalayan sea salt to the formula which was missing.  I do like using both starters.  SD for taste and YW is known for its spring and mpoist crumb by my experience.  These 40% whole grain breads with sprouts and seeds need all the help they can get and the YW seemed to help in spring and moistness.

Method

2 days before bake, take the berries and soak them in water for 5 hours.  Place a sheet of  wet paper towel on a tray and spread the seed out on top of it.  Cover with two more sheets of wet paper towel.  I just get the towels wet, squeeze out the water and unravel them to flat. Cover the whole shebang with plastic wrap and let sit until needed’

1 day before baking make the 2 starters.  There is 4 hours between each of the builds.  At the 12 hour mark, put both levains in fridge overnight for retardation of 8 hours

In the morning, take out the levains and put them on the counter for one hour as you autolyse the dough flours with the whey water and water (I used an equal part mix as usual) in your mixer bowl with the paddle on KA 1 then cover with plastic.

After an hour add the levains and mix again until they are incorporated and cover.  Let autolyse for one more hour.

Add the salt and all the mix-ins except the seeds, switch to dough hook and knead on KA 2 for 8 minutes.  Add in the seeds and the sprouts and mix until combined.  Transfer dough to a well oiled and plastic covered bowl.  Let rest 15 minutes.

 Do 10 S&F’s on a floured work surface, form into a ball and put back into a plastic covered oiled bowl.  Do 3 more S & F’s at 15 minute marks only do 4, 3 and 2 S&F’s.  Let dough develop in plastic covered oiled bowl for 1 hour.

Divide dough in half and pre-shape into boules.  Do final shaping 10 minutes later making sure the skin is stretched taut, dust top with 50/50 mix of AP and Rice flour and place top down in basket lined with a well floured towel, using the same dusting flour combination.  Place baskets in a tall kitchen trash can liner for 1 hour.  Place in fridge overnight to retard or, when dough has risen 70%, it is ready to bake when it passes the poke test.

Pre-heat the oven at 500 F on regular bake for 45 minutes with your steaming method and stone in place.  Invert baskets onto parchment paper on a peel, do a T-Rex or, my favorite, 3 Toed Chicken Slash or a beauty of your own and slide into oven on the parchment paper.  Turn down temperature to 450 F and steam for 15 minutes.  Remove steaming apparatus and parchment, turn oven to 425 F convection and bake for another 25 minutes or so turning the boule every 8 minutes 1/3rd of a turn.  When the bread has reached 205 F inside, turn off oven, keep door ajar and let boule crisp on the stone for another 12 minutes.  Then remove to a cooling rack until cool.

If retarding, take the bread out of fridge in the morning and leave in the plastic bag.   Immediately start your pre-heat of the oven and bake as above.  My retarded boule will be going in the oven shortly.  It rose beautifully in the fridge.

 This bread also bakes very well Tartine Method in a cold or hot Dutch Oven. 

Dabrownman's Multigrain SD YW Challah        
           
SD Starter         
 Build 1Build 2 Build 3Total Dough Flour  Multigrain Sprouts
SD Starter20  20 Rye35 Buckwheat15
Rye10 1020 WW35 WW15
WW10  10 Buckwheat35 Rye15
Buckwheat 10 10 Spelt35 Bulgar 
Dark Rye 10 10 Farro20 Barley 
WWW 10 10 Barley20 Spelt15
Bread Flour   0 6 Grain Cereal20 Water15
AP20301060 Millet20 Total Sprouts75
Water4060 100 Amranth20   
Total10012020240 Lentils20 Hydra. w/Sprouts72.18%
      Dark Rye20   
YW Starter    Semolina20 Scald 
 Build 1Build 2 Build 3Total Bulgar20 Buckwheat 
Yst Water30202070 Oats20 WW 
Rye   0 White WW20 Rye 
WW   0 Potato Flakes20 Bulgar 
Buckwheat   0 Ground Flax Seed20 Barley 
Dark Rye   0 Bread Flour280 Spelt 
WWW   0 AP280 Water 
Bread Flour   0 Dough Flour960 Total Scald0
AP30303090      
Water   0 50% Water/ Whey700 Hydra. w/Scald71.03%
Total605050160 Dough Hydration72.92%   
         Add - Ins 
Total Starters       Barley Malt50
      Total Flour1180 Molasses50
Flour220    Total Water880 Honey50
Water170    Total Hydration 74.58% Olive Oil50
Hydration77.27%       Egg50
       
Salt20
  Red Rye Malt 
         White Rye Malt10
         VW Gluten10
         Sunflower Seeds75
         Nuts0
         Total345
           
         Hydrat w/ Adds79.96%
         Total Weight

2,480

RonRay's picture
RonRay

Simple Multi Levain Builds for SD &or YW

 [Updated: 110519-0940]

A great deal has been written about methods to build, or refresh, leavains. It is not the purpose of this posting to say here is a “better way”. The sole purpose here is to say here is a very simple way, if you want to build any desired amount of levain for a loaf you wish to try.

 

I have given out free calculators to work out any mix combinations I can think anyone would ever really want. I still give such things out, however, many people seem to panic if faced with a spreadsheet, still they do use a computer, which is far more complicated. The world is filled with many mysteries that I have given up hopes of ever understanding. So, here are a few basic steps to figure out your builds.

 

Limits:

1/ Only 100%HL (hydration levels) are considered.

2/ Only White Sourdough ( WSD ) or Yeast Water ( YW ) are considered.

3/ Only 1, 2, or 3 Builds are considered.

4/ Only Ratios of 1:1:1 ( Seed:Flour:Liquid ) are considered.

5/ You must know how much Levain you want to end with.

6/ You must already have a SD Seed amount, or a YW Seed amount to start with.

 

Start by writing down the Amount Desired.

Example: AD = 200g

Decide how many Builds you want – limit is 1, 2, or 3.

 

Sourdough Only:

 

Rule: Divide the AD to find initial Seed required:

1-Build, Divide the AD by 3

2-Build, Divide the AD by 9

3-Build, Divide the AD by 27

 

Example: AD = 200g

1-Build, 200 / 3 = 66.666 round the up to 67g.

You will need 67g of Seed to mix with 67g of flour and 67g of water for a total of 201g of levain.

 

Example: AD = 200g

2-Build, 200 / 9 = 22.222 round the up to 23g.

Build-#1 = 23g of Seed to mix with 23g of flour and 23g of water for a total of 69g of levain.

Build-#2 = 69g from B-#1 to mix with 69g of flour and 69g of water for a total of 207g of levain.

 

Example: AD = 200g

3-Build, 200 / 27 = 7.401 round the up to 8g.

Build-#1 = 8g of Seed to mix with 8g of flour and 8g of water for a total of 24g of levain.

Build-#2 = 23g from B-#1 to mix with 23g of flour and 23g of water for a total of 69g of levain.

Build-#3 = 69g from B-#2 to mix with 69g of flour and 69g of water for a total of 207g of levain.

 

Yeast Water Only – Note Well: Everywhere you find “Liquid*” below, you can use YW, or H2O, or a mix.

 

Rule: Divide the AD to find initial Seed required:

1-Build, Divide the AD by 2

2-Build, Divide the AD by 6

3-Build, Divide the AD by 18

 

Example: AD = 200g

1-Build, 200 / 2 = 100g

You will need 100g of YW as Seed to mix with 100g of flour for a total of 200g of levain.

 

Example: AD = 200g

2-Build, 200 / 6 = 33.333 round the up to 34g.

Build-#1 = 34g of YW as Seed to mix with 34g of flour for a total of 68g of levain.

Build-#2 = 68g from B-#1 to mix with 68g of flour and 68g of Liquid* for a total of 204g of levain.

 

Example: AD = 200g

3-Build, 200 / 18 =11.111 round the up to 12g.

Build-#1 = 12g of YW as Seed to mix with 12g of flour for a total of 24g of levain.

Build-#2 = 23g from B-#1 to mix with 23g of flour and 23g of Liquid* for a total of 69g of levain.

Build-#3 = 69g from B-#2 to mix with 69g of flour and 69g of Liquid* for a total of 207g of levain.

 

I hope that is of some help...

Ron

 

RonRay's picture
RonRay

Yeast Water Examples with Photos TFL Links Only [Updated: 110605-0720]

This is a follow up on my Yeast Water & Other Wee Beastie Bubbles (No Math) posting at the link below:

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/23441/yeast-water-amp-other-wee-beastie-bubbles-no-math

 

I wanted to provide an easy way, for those interested, to find visual examples of what has been done by TFL members using Yeast Water Levain (YWL).

The intent is to list links to any TFL posting that meets two criteria:

1/ The baked item used Yeast Water (YW) as one of the levains, and

2/ The posting shows some photographic material of the baked item.

 

I have searched the TFL index, and have gone through Threads, which I thought might have such postings/comments with in them. There is no intent to exclude any material that meets the two criteria given above. Therefore, if you know of any existing posting not list below, that meets the criteria, please, provide me with the link, and I will attempt to add it to this index. This is not intended to be a continually updated posting, however, for those new postings in the very near future, I will try to get them added, as well – if they are reported to me.

There are 17 categories – 15 Yeast Water type groups, 1 group of mixed &or unclear types, and the first category which is not the baking, but rather the making of YW or YWL.

 

Within each category, I have tried to list them from oldest down to the most recent. I hope no one finds it odd that many of the examples are my own postings, but the world does have those who get upset by nearly everything.

 

01 *** Making YW &or YWL...

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/6012/baking-natural-wild-yeast-water-not-sourdough

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/20460/banana-saga-%E9%95%B7%E7%AF%87%E6%95%85%E4%BA%8B#comment-142706

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/20460/banana-saga-%E9%95%B7%E7%AF%87%E6%95%85%E4%BA%8B#comment-142813

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/23719/time-lapse-video-apricot-yw-levain

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/23809/how-i-make-and-maintain-raisin-yeast-water

02 *** Apple YW examples...

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/20460/banana-saga-%E9%95%B7%E7%AF%87%E6%95%85%E4%BA%8B#comment-143250

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/20693/culturing-growing-and-baking-range-wild-yeasts#comment-143857

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/20693/culturing-growing-and-baking-range-wild-yeasts#comment-145005

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/20693/culturing-growing-and-baking-range-wild-yeasts#comment-145082

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/20693/culturing-growing-and-baking-range-wild-yeasts#comment-146554

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/21251/bread-who-grew-horn-or-apple-yeast-gone-wild

03 *** Apricot YW examples...

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/23752/apricot-yeast-water-test-loaf

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/23816/apricot-yeast-water-pullman-loaf

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/23818/survival-fittest-pt-2-raisin-yw-wins

04 *** Blueberry YW examples...

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/23676/fruitfed-yeast-adventuremadness#comment-170888

05 *** Cherry YW examples...

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/23676/fruitfed-yeast-adventuremadness#comment-170888

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/23818/survival-fittest-pt-2-raisin-yw-wins

06 *** Clementine YW examples...

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/20460/banana-saga-%E9%95%B7%E7%AF%87%E6%95%85%E4%BA%8B#comment-143000

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/20460/banana-saga-%E9%95%B7%E7%AF%87%E6%95%85%E4%BA%8B#comment-143153

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/20693/culturing-growing-and-baking-range-wild-yeasts#comment-144440

 07 *** Lemon YW examples...

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/20693/culturing-growing-and-baking-range-wild-yeasts#comment-146895

 08 *** Mixed or Type-Unsure YW examples...

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/6012/baking-natural-wild-yeast-water-not-sourdough#comment-32470

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/20460/banana-saga-%E9%95%B7%E7%AF%87%E6%95%85%E4%BA%8B#comment-143159

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/20693/culturing-growing-and-baking-range-wild-yeasts#comment-143785

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/20693/culturing-growing-and-baking-range-wild-yeasts#comment-145327

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/20693/culturing-growing-and-baking-range-wild-yeasts#comment-145701

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/20693/culturing-growing-and-baking-range-wild-yeasts#comment-146231

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/20693/culturing-growing-and-baking-range-wild-yeasts#comment-146950

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/21104/my-first-panettone-milanese

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/23348/my-japanese-sandwich-loaf

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/23379/cuban-bread-japanese-sandwich-starterliquid-yeast

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/23440/raisin-water-yeast#comment-169592

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/23519/bread-who-grew-horn-or-apple-yeast-gone-wild#comment-170137

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/23613/liquid-yeast-sourdough

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/23615/strawberry-pocky-my-version-mixed-fruit-yeast-water

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/23440/raisin-water-yeast#comment-170489

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/23440/raisin-water-yeast#comment-170580

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/23694/standard-kiss-loaf-or-keep-it-simple-smiley

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/23440/raisin-water-yeast#comment-171399

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/23779/survival-fittest-%E2%80%93-which-fruit-yeast-water-keep

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/23818/survival-fittest-pt-2-raisin-yw-wins

09 *** Peach YW examples...

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/23708/search-offlavor-peachy-boule#comment-171159

10 *** Potato YW examples...

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/23793/potato-yeast-water-pullman-loaf-shorty

11 *** Prune YW examples...

 http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/20693/culturing-growing-and-baking-range-wild-yeasts#comment-145016

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/20693/culturing-growing-and-baking-range-wild-yeasts#comment-145570

12 *** Raisin YW examples...

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/6012/baking-natural-wild-yeast-water-not-sourdough#comment-31414

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/20693/culturing-growing-and-baking-range-wild-yeasts#comment-146574

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/20693/culturing-growing-and-baking-range-wild-yeasts#comment-146735

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/20693/culturing-growing-and-baking-range-wild-yeasts#comment-146880

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/20693/culturing-growing-and-baking-range-wild-yeasts#comment-147134

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/23593/david039s-miche-raisin-yeast-water

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/23726/thank-you-syd

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/23818/survival-fittest-pt-2-raisin-yw-wins

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/23440/raisin-water-yeast#comment-172317

13 *** Rice YW examples...

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/20693/culturing-growing-and-baking-range-wild-yeasts#comment-147023

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/20693/culturing-growing-and-baking-range-wild-yeasts#comment-147096

14 *** Strawberry YW examples...

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/23440/raisin-water-yeast#comment-169026

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/23440/raisin-water-yeast#comment-169740

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/23440/raisin-water-yeast#comment-170434

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/23676/fruitfed-yeast-adventuremadness#comment-170888

 15 *** Tea YW examples...

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/6012/baking-natural-wild-yeast-water-not-sourdough#comment-31954

16 *** Tomato YW examples...

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/23680/tomato-pretzel-yeast-water-raisin-yeast-water-used#comment-170927

17 *** Yogurt YW examples...

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/20693/culturing-growing-and-baking-range-wild-yeasts#comment-145564

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/20693/culturing-growing-and-baking-range-wild-yeasts#comment-145610

 

Ron

RonRay's picture
RonRay

Yeast Water & Other Wee Beastie Bubbles (No Math)

There is a Chinese proverb, of which, I am very fond:

The beginning of wisdom is to call things by their right names.

      a  Highly Active Culture  of  Apple Yeast Water

 

Having no delusions of being wise, I often go ahead and refer to things, for which, I have never found a proper name. However, I do try to state the meaning that I think they may deserve.

*** Some terms and the meanings I place on them when I use them.

Yeast Water (YW)... a specific instance of:
A quantity of nearly total water, which contains an active culture of microscopic life forms that will consume various nutrients and release carbon dioxide while doing so.

Yeast Water, Yeast Water Levain (YWL)... in general, intended, or already mixed with a gluten type flour:
A culture started from any type of YW that is mixed with flour and used in the same way as Sourdough Levain or Commercial yeast.

AYW, RYW, PYW, CYW, GYW, etc.... abbreviations for what is used to maintain the YW culture, such as:
Apple YW, Raisin YW, Prune YW, Clementine YW, Grape YW, etc. Used where the 1st letter's meaning should be clear to anyone.

Dust, as in apple dust, raisin dust, etc....
The accumulation of particles on the bottom of a YW culture, resulting from small parts that the culture has reduced to separate "dust" parts.

Highly Active Culture... general usage.
A Yeast Water culture that shows large amounts of activity - CO2 creation - can be in the form of bubbles rising in the actual water of a YW jar, or in a levain, which would be judged exactly as one would judge a sourdough levain.

Strong YW... general usage
Only measurable by testing growth when mixed with at least a A-P flour level gluten. This would apply to most YW that is being stored in a fridge, although, if returned to room temperature, the indications of a Highly Active Culture may re-manifest themselves.

Wild Yeast... general usage:
Any of the countless species of eukaryotic micro-organisms (over 1,500 species currently described, according to Wikipedia [1]) excluding those used in Commercial Yeast and known as Baker's Yeast, as well as Brewer's Yeast - both of which are Saccharomyces cerevisiae, and have been used for thousands of years (See Wikipedia [1, 2] ) There is no earthly reason, that I can think of, which would justify your needing to remember any of those technical terms...

Wee Bonnie Beasties (WBBs)... my personal usage
Any of the Wild Yeast that I might find useful. Sorry, but as the writer, I do have some prerogatives.

*** General Thoughts about Sourdough and Yeast Water - as far as our usage here.

All I need to know, and therefore, all I care to touch upon here, is how do I understand the cultivation, care, and usage of Yeast Water (YW) to the extent that I get the levains that will aid me in making foods I bake, &or eat - I do eat banana levain without the baking step and occasionally drink some fermented beverages..

Think of these Wild Yeast, for a moment, as if they were humans. You can find different groups that like different music, or different foods, different climates, etc. There are different groups of Wild Yeast that like wheat, others rye, others apples, grapes, etc. I think you see the point. But, they all need a source of the foods that they can eat, or that their companions can convert into foods that they can eat, and in hard times, they will eat things that they would probably not prefer to eat.

Unlike humans, Wild Yeast and their companions don't normally have drilling equipment, and while they often can be transported by air currents, they do not have wings to pick and choose locations. So, if chance places them where there are the sugars, starches and whatever that is needed for these Wee Bonnie Beasties (WBBs) to survive and multiply, then there is a very good chance that they will do just that.

Those great survival places are, more often than not, on the outer surface of commonly grown food sources. The same ones that humans often like, and for the same reasons that the WBBs like them - they are good sources of sugars, starches, and flavors - and low sources of deadly compounds (the latter consideration does not necessarily apply to humans).

Now, let us consider where these few fanciful premises can take us:
1/ The world is full of concentrated sources of these WBBs.
2/ They are there for your finding and taking.
3/ With some trial and (perhaps,) error, you should be able provide a home and diet that will keep both you and your WBBs happy.
4/ They will rise your doughs, and uncomplaining will die so that you may bake your daily bread.
5/ It is not too likely that they will remain that happy, if you force them to change their ways.
6/ Your WBBs are happy and healthiest on their original diets, and if you shift the diet, there is a very good chance the new WBBs - that come in with the new food you provide - will take over and the originals will diminish, even disappear completely.

The last item - "6/" - means that Apple Yeast Water (AYW) can shifted into a sourdough (SD) and that SD into a banana levain (BL) and the BL into a sour-rye levain (SRL) and even converted back into an AYW... Assuming you had strange tastes in what you liked to spend your time doing.

*** The Skin Game...

None of this is new., and the methods of starting a sourdough culture are filled with examples of people using the facts - without necessarily connecting the dots. Nancy Silverton has pushed using grapes to start a sourdough culture [3]. Dan Lepard says to use raisins, currants, and whey. [4] In an hour you could no doubt find any number of other examples of "Helpers to get a sourdough started".

What most of these have in common is that they start a YW culture long enough to establish an environment to foster the growth of the WBBs found in wheat flour. In my first Apple YW culture [5] I used a ¼ tsp of potato YW to jump-start the apple YW fermentation.

You do not need to be a "health nut" to realize that the skins of most commercially sold fruit have been treated
with chemicals to kill "everything except humans" ( not sure about the "except' part of that statement ). So, if you feel you must start from scratch, and use the skins of your source item, and then I would say buy from a source of untreated fruits or vegetables. Once you have any Wild Yeast culture - Sourdough, or Yeast Water, you never need to use skins again, and there are other benefits, I find, to using only the pure flesh of the fruits. Although, I will admit the "garbage disposal" approach of skin, cores, and table scraps, etc. will work to create a YW culture.

*** Do Not Be Afraid to Experiment ...

If you do not try things, you will only have "book learning". I would think, that anyone, which only had book learning would be much the poorer for the lack of the real life complement . Book learning is great, but not to the exclusion of life's lessons.

*** Why Not Just Use a Sourdough Culture and Be Done With It?

Well, I don't know. Why do anything different? Why use Sourdough and not just commercial yeast? Perhaps to learn how to do new things, perhaps, of the increase the range of options that new methods might offer you. These types of decisions are personal choices - choices each of us have to make for ourselves.

For me, there is also the fact that the general absence of the "Sour", as in sourdough, is desired at times. The fragrance from various YW levains is a worthy addition to the palette that I can use to paint the flavor of a bread, and the colors of different YW can add visual appeal to the baked goods - bread, or any other items.

In addition, there are differences in how individual types of YW levains behave. Some people have observed much faster rises with raisin YW (RYW) in certain cases, I find differences in the temperature effects on AYW, as compared to SD levains.

I also find there is the greater ease in the maintenance requirements for my AYW than there is for my SD culture. I love SD, and would never knowingly give it up. However, SD gives me one family of flavors and crumb colors, YW gives me a wider range of everything. I also have had what I consider as great results using a mixture of SD and AYW to create a bread with superior flavor, tang, color, and moistness - all based on my taste, of course, not necessarily to your taste.

But, I am not using my time writing this to play salesman. I could care less if you use Yeast Water, but two things have brought me to try to write this: First, I find - perhaps well intended - postings that are full of statements based upon fantasies (at best), and information that is only creating more "Baker's Legends" and secondly, I find more and more of my personal time being spent answering the same questions over and over. While this is a time consuming task, to the extent that I can write down these answers in a referenceable posting, the less future time that will be spent on those same answers.

*** How Does One Start a Yeast Water culture...

Well that depends on several things, but in general:

1/ Choose the type of YW you want initially. I would suggest picking one that others have had good results at starting. For that, I would say try one of these three types: Grape, Raisin, or Apple, although, feel free to try anything that turns you on.

2/ You will need to start from scratch only if you have no source of existing Sourdough, or Yeast Water cultures. Since all you need to jump-start a culture is a very small amount of any existing culture, I am sure anyone you know that has a culture could give you a part of teaspoonful of their culture to get you started.

3/ Starting with, or without, a jump-start culture:

a/ Take a clean glass jar that has a lid. I find short squat a POOR choice, and jars taller than wide a BETTER choice.

b/ Fill about one fourth of the jar's height with your raisins, or crushed grapes, or your apple slices.

c/ Add water that is chemical free. Fill that jar about half full. I find having the fruit filling only half the volume of water is convenient for the following reasons. Raisins initially sink and as the YW starts developing, raisins will start to form bubbles and then rise, grapes tend to be a mixed bag as to floating initially, while apple slices float initially, but when really depleted they often become "waterlogged" sink to the bottom. In any case, having a section that is more or less a clear water area offers greater opportunity to notice changes that start to occur in your YW culture. This is even more true when it is a fully mature and active culture.

d/ If you wish, you can add a small amount (½ tsp.) of honey, or sugar, but it is not necessary with sweet fruit at first, but would be with vegetables.

e/ IF Jump-starting ONLY:

e-1/ Using an existing YW: add a teaspoon full of the active existing YW to your new starting YW jar,
e-2/ Using an existing SD: ½ teaspoon of SD to cup of water, stir to dissolve the SD in the water and wait for half hour to get some settlement in the mixture. Then, extract a teaspoon of the top portion of the water mixture and add it to your new starting YW jar.

f/ Place a lid on the jar, and leave the jar out of direct sunlight, at room temperature (RT), or up to about 82ºF (27.8º C)

g/ Once a day (more often will not hurt) remove the lid, and stir to release any CO2 and to add oxygen to the solution. Some people find a vigorous shaking of the jar helps. It may, I have never tried it.

h/ If after 4 or 5 days, you do not see bubbles starting to forming, raisins or grapes floating, add another sugar or honey treat. If after 7 days you see nothing, throw everything out and find a new source for your fruit purchases. Start over.

*** After the Bubbles Flow...

Once you have convincing evidence of the YW becoming active, you can make your first proofing test. After all, the only proof of a worthwhile leavening culture is in the rising of the dough. So make your first YWL (YW levain). I would do it something like this:

1/ Find a small glass container, something very much like a typical morning fruit juice glass, with close to vertical sides. The straighter the container's sides, the easier it is to judge how much the levain has risen.

2/ If you weigh the empty glass and record the weight for future reference, it might come in handy. Use your tap water to see about how much a quarter of a glass of water weighs. If it is about 40 to 50 ml (grams), or about 1½ ounces, that would seem a good enough amount. Empty the glass.

3/ Measure out something close to that weight in the YW from your culture (replace the same amount of water back into the culture) and also measure an equal weight of A-P flour. Combine the YW and flour in your "test beaker", mix the two ingredients and place a rubber band around the glass at the level of the mixture's top surface. Place it in a warm location where you can check for activity and place anything - like a piece of light cardboard on the top to cover the opening - to keep anything from falling in and to minimize evaporation from the mixture.

4/ check the level, as compared to the rubber band's location to see if it is rising. If it raises to a level equal to the twice as high as the rubber band in 4 or 5 hours you have a very active levain (and YW culture) if it has not risen at least half that much in 24 hours, then your culture is not ready to use yet. In between those extremes, you make your own judgment calls.

*** After Your Proof of Life on Mars...

Okay, you now are the proud owner of a Yeast Water culture. You have the information needed you make new types of YW, should you wish to. You should realize that the characteristics of your YW will take some time to know well, and that changing the way you feed it, or adding different types of materials into the culture will all change anything you have learned about it - just as switching the A-P flour in a White Sourdough levain to a diet of rye will make it radically different in its behavior, so too will switching from apples to prunes change the characteristics of your YW. Using certain fruits will make any YW worthless for use in bread making - these are a few: kiwi, pineapple, mango and papaya.
I strongly recommend you read the materials on TFL and elsewhere before making any changes in your culture's feeding and care. Here are a few places to start such readings [6, 7, 8, 9].

*** Apple Yeast Water (AYW)...

From here on, nearly everything is specifically meant to apply only to my AYW and SD cultures, although, I will touch on some of my observations that I made with other YW types. However, as I have said above, different YW types may have different characteristics, and often do.

So, for example, if you want specifics on RYW, search TFL on "teketeke" or "daisya". If you want info on AYW, search TFL on "hanseata" or on "RonRay" and if on a wider range, search TFL on "yeast water", &or the references listed at the end of this writing.

Of course, if you are looking for deep information on the nature of SD, search TFL of "Debra Wink", who knows more facts about sourdough WBBs than anyone I ever encountered.

*** Some Q & A that have been posed in the past...

= Q
...Now that I have my RYW proofed , should I just keep that and use it like I do my SD?
= A
...No, keep your yeast water away from flour, until you want to use it for baking...


= Q
...Okay, but why?
= A
...It appears that anything the grows and offers nutrients on its skin/surface/husk/etc. will attract wild yeasts, Labs, and who knows what else. different wee beasties will find different nutrient sources preferable to others. So, your raisin yeast water (RYW) will get competition from the beasties that love flour, and soon you will not have sweet RYW, but sourdough.


= Q
...You said you use 3 builds to make your YW levain. My SD works fine with one or two. Why use more.
= A
...I used the straight method on one of wao's YW breads and it took 16 hours to rise. With SD, generally, you've done refreshes and have a good feel for just how active the SD is. If, like many people, you keep YW in the fridge, until you want to use it; you have a very poor basis to know just how active it is. It is simple for me to take a small amount (10 to 20g) of highly active YW from my active culture and add it to an equal amount of A-P flour and in a few hours have proof positive of strong growth. Using that when it is between 60% to 80% risen and moving to Build #2 gives a strong growth and guarantees that the Build #3 will provide exactly what I planned for in rise times and volume of my breads. No 16 hour surprises anymore.

= Q
...Can I get a sour YW by keeping it in the fridge too long?
= A
...I can only tell you what I have experienced:
1/ If I start with my AYW & Flour, and use AYW (not tap Water) in all builds, I have never gotten a sour levain - even after a week in the fridge.

2/ If I start with my AYW & Flour, and use tap Water (not AYW) in all builds, I have never gotten a sour levain after 3-builds - even after a week in the fridge.
3/ If I start with my AYW & Flour, and use tap water (not AYW) in all builds, and then retain some of that levain to back slope a new series of builds (built on the old levain) I have started to get a sour by the 6th build. All 6 builds being built largely at 51ºF/10.6ºC in a wine bottle fridge.
In other words: One can convert an AYW Levain into a normal WSD by maintaining an initial YW Levain in the same manor as a sourdough culture is maintained. My guess is that the continuing refreshments of wild yeast in the flour, without any fresh YW allows the flour-loving wild yeast to take over the culture.
4/ If I start WSD (White Sourdough) Levain, and use my surplus AYW from the fridge, instead of tap water, in my builds, I can build a SD-AYW Levain that is both sour and has a beautiful fragrance and makes a sweeter, more moist loaf. It has become a favored method of mine.
5/ I have never found a condition where the sourness decreased with increased time - either in, or out of a fridge.
6/ THIS MAY BE of relevance... All of the above is with Apple Yeast Water and KAF A-P flour. Since we know that each type of flour is likely to have a different group of "favorite" wild yeast living off of it, all of these results might very well be different if the flour type changed. For instance, if you used Rye flour, I would not be at all surprised if you had different results. Thus, with your different formulae, you may well be creating different conditions than those that I have been dealing with.

= Q
...How do you know your AYW is slowing down, or needs food, and such?
= A
...I use the bubbles as a measure of the activity. A slow down, usually is for one of these reasons:
1/ The pressure got too high (because I tighten jar the lid too tight). If so, there will be swishing with foaming when the pressure is reduced by removing the lid.
2/ The water has gotten too alcoholic (I do not consider that "sour", but you might) and that water goes into the fridge to use in levain builds - other than the first build. If you cannot tell alcohol by smell, taste it.
3/ The WBBs want their sugar cube "fix" (I give one cube about every 4 to 7 days, and whenever I change water).
4/ The apple slices have little left to give. (depending upon the apple type, 8 to 10 days).
BTW I have 2 jars that have been maintained this way for at least five months, and never cooled, nor refrigerated.
5/ When the apple slices sink, you know the activity is very low. The slices float, when fresh, but as time passes they become more waterlogged, and need the bubbles to hold them up !!!
Now, I was talking about my AYW (apple yeast water in those points. But it should provide a background for any wild yeast culturing - with adjustments for the oddities by "beastie types"

Here is an image of the bubbles rising in my AYW culture. They are difficult to photograph, and often I need to use a magnifying glass to see them clearly. The streams of bubbles can be very small, fine, bubbles, but they start in the apple dust at the bottom and stream to the apple slices at the top. Of course, when a sugar cube is dropped in, it sinks into the apple dust at the bottom. So, there is a lot of sugars in the material at the bottom.

= Q
...What IS your favorite fruit water? Why is it your favorite?
= A
...Well, I would call it Yeast water, not fruit water - vegetables work well, too. When I was fairly new with YW experiments, I thought I liked Clementine YW best. But Apple YW was a close second choice.

Clementine lost out more for practical considerations: I crushed the sections and only added those parts and the juice. (I found the skins of citrus, if used in YW made tastes I distinctly dislike).

Of course, any source that is highly seasonal, is not a good choice for one's "standby" YW. Grapes, raisins, and Zante Currants are all reliable year round sources, as is/are potato flakes (instant potato). Some sources must be avoided, if it is bread you wish to use the YW in - such as the warning I posted elsewhere: "Certain fruits should not be used for yeast waters intended for leavening bread. They are those fruits (or vegetables) that contain Actinidain (or actinidin) kiwi, pineapple, mango and papaya. This protease enzyme breaks down protein. If you make a yeast water from these fruits, you can still use it as a meat tenderize, but NOT in your bread dough."

I discovered that prune juice worked well to make a YW, but turned out making a dense crumb that I didn't care for very much. It did make a bread that visually could pass for a very dark rye.

Which brings up the coloring agent aspect that YW can play. Clementine and apple give a very nice soft golden tint, as well as a nice fragrance.

For me, AYW won.

Before I give the final considerations, why apple won for me, let me shift to another consideration, and that is Starting vs. maintaining a Wild Yeast Culture.

In nature, it is the skins that usually hold the highest concentrations of wild yeast. The dusty film on the skins of grapes and blueberries are wild yeast. In the modern day world, fewer and fewer skins of fruit and vegetables that one buys in the market have not been treated in one way or another to kill or remove anything on the skins. So, it becomes a bit harder to start a YW from scratch, and potentially, much less healthy to add unwashed skins to the YW. Fortunately, the skins are not necessary in maintaining an established culture, nor are they necessary if you have any type culture existing.

Since, if you have any Wild Yeast Culture, you can start a different one by jump-starting the new one. Just as feeding a pure banana purée to SD can create a pure Banana levain, or feeding rye flour to SD can get a Sour Rye, likewise, adding a small amount of raisin YW (RYW) to a jar of skinned apple slices covered with water, will get you an AYW from a RYW in about 1, or 2 days.

Of course, if you once have an AYW culture, you have no need to ever use any skins. The WBBs will slowly build "apple dust" on the bottom of the jar's clear gold-tinted water in the middle area and floating apple slices on the top. The "apple dust" seems to be that greatest concentration of the wee beasties and while I maintain some always in the culture, it adds an extended moistness to a bread. I enjoy using the "discard" apple slices (when replaced by fresh ones in the culture) mixed with raisins, honey, brown sugar as a baked apple desert - much like my Banana levain gets used as a treat.

= Q
...How can you keep from dumping your apple dust when you change water, or use the AYW for levain?
= A
...I use a baster, just a common supermarket type, but the top squeeze bulb is smaller than most. Cleaning is not a problem, since it is only used for the AYW, and I fill a quart plastic container in the sink before using the baster to extract the AYW. As soon as the extraction is complete, I simple suck the baster full of clean water from the plastic pail, shake well and squirt it into the sink drain. Repeating that 3 or 4 times is all the cleaning required and the baster is allowed to drain/dry vertically in the rack at the sink's edge.

Surplus AYW is saved in tall jars that were once olive jars and kept in the fridge's door, and used it in Build #2s and #3s of levain builds. Thus, normally, this only requires me to need 10 to 20g of fresh AYW from the active culture's water - which is replaced at once with fresh water out of the same baster that had just extracted the used amount. That AYW, of course, is what I use to make the Build #1 of any new levain build.

There is no water loss from the active culture, except what I remove - as in the above use for new levain starts. Other than that, what gets removed is nearly all water when the water gets too high in alcohol, and that is what I use to form the fridge maintained surplus.

= Q
...So simple and it sounds like you really only have to attend to it once a week....or do you toss in a sugar cube sometime before you do what you have just done?
= A
...I enjoy watching the small streams of bubbles raising from the "apple dust" and racing up to the undersides of the floating apple slices. Several times a day, I generally pause to watch them for a second, or two. It is good to open the jar one or more times a day, and just mildly stir the apple slices - the parts exposed to the air are effected differently than those that are not. Stirring also ensures that the lid was not too tight - would not want too much pressure to build up in the jar.

Of course, to stir, is to shake off bits that become the "apple dust", as well as mixing the existing dust, thus, reducing the clarity of the AYW, so I generally do this as the last act of the day. This way the AYW has overnight to regain its clarity back before I see it in the morning.

I mentioned earlier, the signs of reduced activity in a culture, and when no other basis for the decline in activeness is found, I generally add a sugar cube. This addition, generally isn't more often than once, or twice a week, but that changes, depending on how active the culture is, and how fresh the apple slices are.


*** Some Concluding Thoughts...

Yeast Water is "just another leavening agent" It offers alternatives that can be used in baking leavened doughs. Potentially, every vegetable, or fruit could be used to create a Yeast Water, and each would have its own, often subtle, differences, but sometimes very marked effects on the baked goods. I strongly suggest you compare what you have known from your use of SD and commercial yeast to your new culture. Learn the differences, and how to use them. If you do not like what you find, shift to a different food source and ,thus, shift the type of YW you have, Do not assume they are all the same.

I hope to come back and offer links to more of the specific types of Yeast Water on TFL postings. But for now, I think this should help some of those interested in more information on the subject of Yeast Water Levains.

Updated:110517-10:50    The Yeast Water Examples with Photos TFL Links Only has been posted See link:

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/23597/yeast-water-examples-photos-tfl-links-only

Enjoy, and do not let your buns get burned.

RonRay

NOTE: A PDF of this document can be found at Google Docs by using the link below:

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B_MScoZfDZkwZDFkMmY5NWQtMTA0MS00OGE2LTllNzQtMDFkMzM1Yjg5OWZl&hl=en

*** Footnotes...

1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeast
2. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baker%27s_yeast
3. http://www.food.com/recipe/nancy-silverton-s-grape-sourdough-starter-316306
4. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Handmade-Loaf-Dan-Lepard/dp/1845333896/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1277986711&sr=1-2
5. http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/20460/banana-saga-%E9%95%B7%E7%AF%87%E6%95%85%E4%BA%8B#comment-143439
6. http://originalyeast.blogspot.com/2009_03_01_archive.html
7. http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/6012/baking-natural-wild-yeast-water-not-sourdough
8. http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/20693/culturing-growing-and-baking-range-wild-yeasts
9. http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/20460/banana-saga-%E9%95%B7%E7%AF%87%E6%95%85%E4%BA%8B
10. http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/20693/culturing-growing-and-baking-range-wild-yeasts#comment-143857

 

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