I've been meaning for ages to rave about the onion rings we made weeks ago using Tanna's (My Kitchen in Half Cups) brilliant idea for using up left over sludge after feeding the wild yeast. They were fabulous!! And very very bad for us. Because we want to have onion rings every day. This is not good. I really don't want to have to buy new trousers.

• My Kitchen in Half Cups: onion rings (How to use the toss-off)
• Our take on the recipe for onion rings

Ive been looking into various recipes and explanations of creating a starter, and i thought id put a summary here.

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Pretty well all of the recipes include a replication step like "divide in two, disposing of one half, and adding back a particular ratio mixture as a replacement". A very few have slightly different steps in the first few days but end up with this process at the end.

Additionally almost all recipes have the same general description for success: a mixture that when replicated displays a leavening effect (rises to about double its size) and a sort of "large bubble" foam on a consistant basis over several days. Notably many authors mention that it is common to see a false leavening effect caused by undesirable bacteria in the early phase of the process that then disappears after several days only to be replaced by the real leavening effect a few days later.

By far the most common recipe comes down to: take a 1:1 by weight mixture of flour and water and replicate every 24 hours until stable. Some recipes suggest 12 hours, and some require specific types of flour, with many recommending wholemeal or rye flour until the mixture is stable and then switching to AP afterwards. Most suggest that the unit be a cup of water. Also a number suggest using a 1:2 mixture (1 cup flour to 1 cup water is about 1:2 flour to water by weight),

Occasionally a few additives are suggested:

Acidic additives: These usually include some kind of acidic juice, with pineapple or orangejuice in the initial steps. The idea is that the juice lowers the ph preventing undesirable bacteria from growing but providing a good environment for wild yeast while at the same time providing sugars for the wild yeast to feed on. Vinegar is also suggested occasionally for similar reasons.

There are a much lower number suggesting using milk products. In this case the intention seems to be to encourage lactobascili, and also possibly the same justification as for the acidic additives.

Diastatic malt is also sometimes recommended with a tiny amount being added in the initial steps, also people that use AP flour will be unknowingly including tiny amounts of this as it usually added by the miller. The intention of this seems to be to provide sugar to the wild yeast, but enzymatically from the starch from the flour. Sometimes sweetener is suggested for similar reasons.

A few sources seem to suggest that you can manufacture wild yeast from commerical yeast, or that commerical bakers yeast will revert to wild.

One or two seem to suggest using things like unmilled rye or barly, or using the skins of wild or field grown grapes.

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When i decided to make a starter I had access to a commerical starter "Seitenbacher(c) Natur Saurteig" that is widely available in grocery stores where I live in Germany.

Since I thought that was kind of cheating I decided I would make two, one a replication starting from some left over dough from a batch i made with the starter, and one with raw material. Aside from the fact that one included a small part of the dough I did exactly the same thing with both: replicating of a blanced blend of rye and wholemeal flour mixed at 1:1 with water with the base weight being 200 grams. I was very careful not to contaminate the wild one with the commerical, always working with the wild one first. On the third day I added a tiny amount (0.1 of a gram or so) of diastatic malt after I replicated (i didnt have any to add on the first day), And by the 8th day i had stability. The two behave somewhat differently with the wild one being a little slower to rise, but rising further in the oven, and they make a nice loaf mixed together. :-)

My opinion of this is that Im not all that convinced by the additives, with the exception of the diastatic malt. For the juices the reason is that I think its hard to control how acidic the formulation goes, and that citrus frust have their own associated bacteria and yeasts, which are probably not as appropriate as the yeasts we see living naturally on grain. (I will say though that I have seen one particularly cogent argument, incidentally posted here, in favour of using juice.)

For the milk i think its just generally a bad idea, some of the bascili in milk can kill you and also most milk you can buy is pasteurized anyway, and i think that the bascili we want grow naturally on the grain and on our hands and other places. We dont need it from milk. Sweetener I think is a bad idea. In general they are preservatives,

My feeling is that one wants to encourage the wild stuff on the grain to replicate and that introducing things that are totally foreign wont help. Diastatic malt is an exception because it is a substance that does naturally occur in wheat and other grains and so adding a bit more doesnt drastically change things. Also its effect is slower, something that i think is important, providing a steady supply of sugar over time instead of a huge amount at the start which tapers off over time, something which doesnt seem to me to be inclined to make for a stable environment, and after all one thing we are looking for is a stable environment.

Anyway, Im no expert, form your own opinions. But most importantly try it, it isnt very hard. :-)

Hi everyone!!

Boy am I happy that I found this site!!  I am having trouble (of course) with what I thought was my first attempt at sourdough starter..

I am using BBA method for Seed Culture, hoping to get to the Barm stage at some point.  I have two questions.  #1) I see here that many say that this method (BBA) is a method for Wide Yeast NOT Sourdough starter.  Can someone clear up the difference for me?  And how does one start a Sourdough Starter?

More Importantly... #2)  Having trouble getting my seed culture to develop according to what BBA says should be happening...  This has been my method and results...

 DAY 1:  4.25oz coarse rye flour & 6oz room temp water (NYC water run through my Brita filter).  Put in plastic beaker, marked height.

DAY 2:  Saw small rise (I think maybe 50% or less-can't quite remember).  Mixed in 4.5oz bread flour & 4oz water.

DAY 3:  I think this is the day that I had a pretty big rise - maybe double, maybe a bit more.  Discarded 1/2 the starter.  Added 4.5 oz bread flour & 4oz water.

 DAY 4:   maybe 50% rise.  BBA said that I should have had at least a double this day, or to allow it to sit out another 12-24 hours - so I left it alone until...

DAY 5:  Still no double, maybe 50% rise - decided to  discard 1/2 and feed again.

DAY 6:  Same - no double, but fed it again.. 

Day 7 - TODAY.  Looks like I had 75% rise, but then it fell back again to 50%.  The past couple of days (I'm getting confused, should have kept a journal) it seems to rise best between when I feed it and maybe 6-8 hours later, then it seems to stall and then falls back by the time it gets around to 24 hours.. 

 AM I STARVING IT?  I've read that many methods discard and feed every 12 hours.  Should I try this?  I'm still waiting for the double rise without falling - then BBA tells me to use 7 oz of this "seed culture" with 3 1/2 cups (16oz) flour and 16oz water to make the barm.

 This that I've made smells a bit sour and a bit bready - not bad, I think that day 3 was the worst smell (and the best rise-was this just bacteria.?

 Sorry for the long post, I appreciate any help that you can give me.  I just fed it for today, may try to feed again in 12 hours.

Thanks.