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agcilantro's picture

100% Whole Wheat Sourdough Bread Problems

October 9, 2012 - 6:35am -- agcilantro
Forums: 

I have been making the 100% Whole Wheat Sourdough Bread recipe from Sourdough Home, and have had mixed results.  A few times the bread rose beautfully both in the brad pan and in the oven, and the texture was fantastic.  I have, however, been unable to consistently have this recipe turn out well.

Here is the recipe: ( and a link http://www.sourdoughhome.com/100percentwholewheat.html ).  I am using King Arthur whole wheat flour, AP.

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

 

It has been a while since we did our Hemp Bag take on Empress Ying’s 36 hour baguettes.  The last time the hemp seeds made for some pretty dopey baking according to Hanseata.  She is rarely wrong when it comes to seeds and especially  ….eeerrrr…. baking with them.   They were delicious baguettes but lacked full depth of flavor and tasty character of a bread that has at least 15% whole grains in it.

 

Luckily EY (Empress Ying) has already set the standard for multi-grain baguettes here like she has for 36 hour baguettes galaxy wide here:  They are terrific!

  

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/21809/36-hours-sourdough-baguette-increased-whole-grain-how-much-too-much#comment-230831

 Of course I didn't find her perfect post until after my bake was done so all of the good things I learned from it were not used :-)  Her experiment starts at 20% whole grain and moves up to 40% and she increases her hydration as the whole grain rise with 80% hydro for her 20% whole grain version.

 

I kept my hydration at 75% for this 16% version but would have used 78% had I thought properly even without her post.  I know it sounds like a lot to expect from a doofus like me but my apprentice has been testy of late and asleep at the oven much of the time.

 

My whole grains were different than txfarmer’s too.  We used spelt, rye and whole wheat.  Our 36 hours was different than hers too and wasn't even 36 hours either.   We just can’t seem to stick to any kind of schedule since we retired.  Instead of a 12 hour autolyse, we did a 6 hour room temperature one with the salt.

 

After the mix of levain and autolyse came together, we did 8 minutes of French slap and folds because my apprentice loves the sound of the dough smacking the marble - makes her go insane and start barking very loudly until things quiet down.  After a 15 minute rest we continued on with (3) S&F’s every 30 minutes for the next hour and a half.   We allowed the dough to ferment for an hour before we retarded it for 20 hours instead of 24.  We then took it out of the fridge with the intent of baking it but after 1 hour of warm up, pre-shape, final shape (16” long) and into a rice floured basket for final proof, we only let it proof for an hour and then chucked it into a plastic trash can liner and into the fridge for another 14 hours of retard. 

 

EY said that she thought it could stand some more hours of retard and Ian just gave it 30 so we though a total of 34 hours of retard instead of 24 might be OK if the bread gods were too drunk on godliness to notice. 

 

After the 2nd retard was done we let the dough, still inside the trash can liner sit on the counter for 3 hours before firing up Old Betsy at 500 F for a 45 minute pre-heat with 2 of Sylvia’s steaming bread pans on the bottom rack with the stone on the rack above.

The baguettes were upturned onto the parchment lined peel, poorly slashed 4 times each, this type of massacre should be illegal by the way,  and slid onto the stone with a ½ cup of water thrown into the bottom of the oven as we closed to door to make sure the steam was maximized. We immediately turned the oven down to 450 F and let the bread steam for 10 minutes.

 

The steam was removed, the oven turned down to 425 F convection this time, and the baguettes were baked for another 15 minutes.  The baguettes were turned 180 degrees every 5 minutes for the last 15 minutes to make sure they baked evenly.

 

When we test them for temperature they were already at 210 F so we took then out of the oven and put them on the cooling rack.  They were very crispy (and stayed that way), blistered, nicely browned and we could hold them up by the ears – well at least 1 of the 2 we could.  The slashing was still primitive - practice isn't helping much  -  but no giving up is allowed :-)

 

What surprised us was the crumb was not as open as we wanted and thought we would get after our last baguette bake and the even our last boule bake for that matter.  Well you can’t have everything, every time like Empresses do unless you know what you are doing and do it :-)  Maybe starting off with 8 minutes of French Slap and folds was not the right thing to do. 

Do you think it would help if we followed txfarmer’s directions exactly?  Possibly!  Well, tell that to my apprentice!These baguettes do taste great, much better than plain white ones or even ones with hemp seeds in them with our taste buds.  Can’t wait to have some bruschetta tonight.

16% Whole Multi-grain Baguettes

 

 

 

 

 

 Starter

Build 1

%

Rye Sour Starter

15

3.75%

Rye

10

2.50%

WW

10

2.50%

AP

50

12.50%

Spelt

10

2.50%

Water

80

20.00%

Total Starter

175

43.75%

 

 

 

Total Starter

 

 

Hydration

100.00%

 

Levain % of Total

20.40%

 

 

 

 

Dough Flour

 

%

AP

360

90.00%

Whole Spelt

13

3.25%

Dark Rye

14

3.50%

Whole Wheat

13

3.25%

Dough Flour

400

100.00%

 

 

 

Salt

8

2.00%

Water

275

68.75%

Dough Hydration

68.75%

 

 

 

 

Total Flour

487.5

 

Water

362.5

 

T. Dough Hydration

74.36%

 

Whole Grain %

15.90%

 

 

 

 

Total Weight

858

 

 

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

My wife asked for a sandwich loaf that was made with whole grain, mainly whole wheat and a tiny bit of sweetness supplied by honey.  She wants a replacement for her old favorite Oroweat Whole Wheat.

 

She doesn’t like sprouts or seeds or soakers in her bread which makes it easier if more boring.  So we came up with a loaf she can take for lunch every day and not be forced to read the ingredient label that scares folks to death.

  

The whole grains include home ground whole; wheat, spelt and kamut with more emphasis on wheat.  Since wheat would be the dominate flour, we decided to use our Desem starter that is fed only whole wheat and tends to produce bread that is less sour and more sweet than our rye sour starter.

  

Method

We levain was a 5 hour single all in one shot kind of build, which had the same variety of home milled whole grains in it.  We like using whole grains in levains and at220 gthis one was 23% of the total dough weight - right in the 20-30% range we like. 

  

While levain was building itself up to full strength we autolysed all the other ingredients including the salt for nearly 5 hours.  When the levain was finished we mixed it by hand with the autolysed portion of the mix.  Once mixed we did a full 12 minutes of French slap and folds before allowing the dough to rest in a plastic covered  and oiled bowl for 15 minutes.

 

After the brief rest, 4 sets of S&F’s were done one 15 minute intervals with the resting done back in the covered bowl.  Once the S&F’s were completed the dough was allowed to develop and ferment for 1 hour before being pre-shaped into a loaf and allowed to rest for 10 minutes before being final shaped and place into a loaf tin.

 

As soon as the tin was filled with dough,  it was placed into a plastic bag and refrigerated for a 15 hour retard at 38 F.  The dough was taken out of the fridge and allowed to come to room temperature for 1 hour.

 

With 15 minutes left for the warm up, (2) of Sylvia’s steaming cups were prepared with dish cloth, Pyrex cup 1/2 full of water and micro-waved to boiling and the Mini Oven heated to 500 F.

One of Sylvia’s steaming cups were placed in the back of the oven, the bread tin slid in and the other steaming cup placed in front.  It is a perfect fit that ensures maximum steam if you throw in ¼ C of water on the bottom of the mini oven when you close the door like we did.

 

We steamed the bread for 2 minutes and then turned down the mini oven to 450 Fand steamed for another 8 minutes – 10 minutes of steam total.  When the steam was removed the MO was turned down to 400 F - convection this time.  Every 5 minutes the tin was turned 180 degrees.  After 5minutes the bread was removed from the tin and baked directly on the oven rack.  In 10 more minutes the bread tested 205 F and in Fahrenheit degrees too.  Total bake time was 25 minutes.

 

Since we wanted a softer crust the bread was removed to a cooling rack instead of being allowed to crisp in the off oven with the door ajar.  It was surprising how nice this bread really is - no kidding.  The taste is nice and wheaty and the sour is mild.  The crust baked up blistered and softly chewy like we had hoped for.  The crumb is glossy, soft, and very moist.  A real challenger to Oroweat Whole Wheat that tastes and looks better too.   

 

Nothing like laying down in the cool grass when it is 104 F outside - if you are a tired baking apprentice.

Formula

Starter

Build 1

%

Desem Starter

20

5.00%

Kamut

20

5.00%

WW

40

10.00%

Spelt

40

10.00%

Water

100

25.00%

Total Starter

220

55.00%

 

 

 

Total Starter

 

 

Hydration

100.00%

 

Levain % of Total

23.40%

 

 

 

 

Dough Flour

 

%

AP

150

37.50%

Bread Flour

150

37.50%

Whole Spelt

12

3.00%

Whole Kamut

6

1.50%

Whole Wheat

80

20.00%

Dough Flour

400

100.00%

 

 

 

Salt

8

2.00%

Water

270

67.50%

Dough Hydration

67.50%

 

 

 

 

Total Flour

510

 

Water

380

 

T. Dough Hydration

74.51%

 

Whole Grain %

45.10%

 

 

 

 

Hydration w/ Adds

72.83%

 

 

 

 

Total Weight

940

 

 

 

 

Add - Ins

 

%

Honey

12

3.00%

VW Gluten

10

2.50%

Wheat Germ

10

2.50%

Ground Flax Seed

10

2.50%

Total

42

10.50%

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

We ran out of English muffins and once again used a variation fop the one at KAF.  We use YW in conjunction with a SD Desem starter to make EM;s that are very similar to Wofferman’s but 16% whole wheat.  They are light, fluffy, airy and just plain delicious.  We make them all the time and never want to run out of them in the freezer

 

After 8 hours the dough had more than doubled and stuck to the plastic cover to reveal the airy structure beneath. 

The method is simple enough.  Build the SD and YW levains over 6 hours in one stage each.  After the levains have doubled, mix everything except the salt, sugar and baking soda together and let sit out overnight or for 8 hours on the counter.  Make sure the bowl is covered in plastic and well oiled and at least 3 times the size of the dough ball.

 

See the 2 free form ones made after cutting out 7 on the first pass?

After the overnight proofing add the remaining salt, sugar and BP and knead on a floured work surface for 4-5 minutes.  Let rest for 10 minutes and then press out into a circle that is ¾ “ thick.  No need for a rolling pin.  Use a cutter to make 3”-4” rounds – I used a plastic drinking cup.  Move to a corn meal or semolina sprinkled parchment paper covered cookie sheet and cover with plastic to final proof 45 minutes on the counter.

 

We managed 9 large ones but you could get a dozen smaller ones.  Dry fry in a seasoned cast iron skillet on medium low heat about 4-5 minutes per side until golden brown.  Move to a cooling rack.  Eat while warm with butter and jam.  Yummy!

   

SD YW English Muffins - 16% Whole Wheat

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Mixed Starter

Build 1

Total

%

SD Starter

10

10

2.46%

Yeast Water

31

31

9.39%

WW

31

31

9.39%

AP

41

41

12.42%

Water

41

41

12.42%

Total Starter

154

154

46.67%

 

 

 

 

Sd YW Starter Totals

 

 

 

Hydration

100.00%

 

 

Levain % of Total

21.12%

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dough Flour

 

%

 

Whole Wheat

30

9.09%

 

AP

300

90.91%

 

Dough Flour

330

100.00%

 

 

 

 

 

Salt

7

2.12%

 

Milk

238

72.12%

 

Dough Hydration

72.12%

 

 

 

 

 

 

Total Flour

407

 

 

Milk & Water

315

 

 

T. Dough Hydration

77.40%

 

 

Whole Grain %

16.22%

 

 

 

 

 

 

Total Weight

729

 

 

 

 

 

 

Additional Ingredients

 

 

 

1 T Sugar

 

 

 

1 tsp Baking Soda

 

 

 

Grandpa Larry's picture

I just experienced "Oven Flop."

September 15, 2012 - 12:57pm -- Grandpa Larry
Forums: 

I've been bread baking for about fifteen years. I certainly do not consider myself an expert, but I am normally competent enough to bake a passable loaf.

I am, however, stumped by this experience.

I made a batch of pizza dough a couple of weeks ago: AP flour, olive oil, salt, 1 1/2 tsp Red Star Rapid Rise yeast. I divided the slack dough into three 11 oz balls, used two right away, and threw the third in the freezer.

PMcCool's picture
PMcCool

I have been on a baking hiatus, of sorts, realizing that the stash of bread in my freezer needed to be reduced.  Having worked through that gradually, I finally got around to baking again the weekend before Labor Day.

What my mouth wanted was something robust, chewy, mildly tangy, and thoroughly wheaty.  And it had to serve as a reliable foundation for sandwiches.  What to do, what to do?  Leader's Local Breads beckoned, and in it I found the Whole Wheat Sourdough Miche, modeled loosely after the Poilane miche.  After checking the metric weight quantities (which are generally less error prone than the others in this book) and deciding that it was safe to proceed, I hauled my starter out of the refrigerator and gave it a couple of good feeds.  It didn't take long for the starter to bounce back to vigorous health, especially with kitchen temperatures just slightly below the 80F mark.  It more than doubled in less than 5 hours!  

For once, I stuck pretty closely to the formula and process.  The one deviation of note was that I dissolved the levain in the water before adding the rest of the final dough ingredients.  Since I mix by hand, I find it easier to do that than to mix the levain into the already-mixed dough as Leader instructs.  Other than making my life easier, I don't see that it makes any real difference in the outcome.  Because of the warmth of my kitchen that day, I did have to trim fermentation times to avoid over-fermenting the levain and the final dough.

The outcome, by the way, was stunning!  A deep, brown-verging-on-black crust, lightly crackled; a firm, moist crumb; a heady aroma redolent of toast with sweet and tangy overtones.  I can't remember a recent bake that I was happier with than this.  And then there is the flavor!  It was everything the fragrance promised, and more.  Roasted nuts and malt, a gentle hint of acidity, a down to earth wheatiness, and other good things that I don't have words for.  The crust, after cooling, was more leathery than crisp but that played well against the moist coolness of the firm crumb.  The crumb texture is rather fine-grained for this style of bread; that comes from the extended kneading that Leader recommends.  Frankly, I didn't knead it as long as he recommends and I might even cut it back to just a couple of minutes of kneading for future bakes, combined with more stretch and folds to build strength.  That would open the crumb somewhat, but not to the point that condiments would be oozing out of sandwiches.

Here's a picture, which doesn't do the bread justice:

Good stuff, even if it is me that says so!

Both our daughters and their families were with us for the Labor Day weekend, which gave me the excuse to do some additional baking.  The tally for the weekend included Portugese Sweet Bread as rolls for barbecue pork sandwiches, sourdough English muffins for one morning's breakfast, and lemon oat scones for another breakfast.  Fun!

Now I need to finish testing the breads that I plan to teach at the Culinary Center of Kansas City, starting in November.  More fun!

Paul

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

Typo after typo,  My left fnger doesn't know what my right finger is doing.  This is way worse than dyslexia, which I had but sold to Lebanese rug trader and a lot more painful too.

With plenty of rye, WW and semolina bread in the freezer we baked off another as close to white bread as we ever make for the bread winners daily lunches.   My wife prefers Oroweat whole wheat bread but we are slowly winning her over to SD bread in the 25%-35 % whole grain range.

 

This one was 25% home ground whole grain bread with spelt, rye and WW ground from berries.   The remainder of the flours used for the bread were grocery bought bread flour and AP milled by KAF.

 

The bread baked up nicely browned with small to medium blisters.  The crust came out crisp but went soft and chewy as it cooled.  The bloom and spring were OK but nothing special.   The crumb was moderately open, soft, chewy and slightly glossy.  This bread had a bolder SD tang right after being cooled and we assume it will get better tomorrow. 

 

If you like David Snyder’s Pugliesi Capriosso and San Joaquin or Pierre Nury’s Rustic Light Rye you will like this bread.  For a nearly white bread it sure is tasty.  Just delicious.

 

The formula follows the pictures.

Method

The levain starter was equal amounts of rye sour, desem and spelt (a new one that we will soon convert to Kamut) and built up over (2) 3 hour and (1) 2 hour build.

The levain was refrigerated overnight after nit had doubled along with the autolysed flours which included the entire formula less the levain.  There were no sprouts, scald, soaker or add ins with the exception of the red and white home made malts, some ground flax seed and a tiny bit of honey.

The next day the autolyse and the levain were removed from the fridge and sat on the counter for 1 hour to warm.  The two were combined in the KA mixing bowl and kneaded with the dough hook for 8 minutes on KA2.  The dough pulled away from the sides at the 7 minute mark.  It came together easily for the 75% hydration dough.

It was rested in an oiled plastic tub, sized for a 836 g loaf, for 20 minutes before (4) sets of S& F’s were performed all in the tub.  The first set was 25 stretches with a ¼ turn each time.  The next set was 5 stretches less all the way down to the last one of 10 for a total of 70 stretches.

After the last S&F the dough was rested for 60 minutes before being pre-shaped and then shaped into a boule and placed into a rice floured basket seam side up.  The basket was sized to allow the dough to double when it reached the top.

Sandwixh on the left made with last bakes Semolina Bread - good but not great like this bake.

The boule was them placed into a plastic trash can liner, the end closed with a rubber band.  The tented and basketed boule was placed in the refrigerator for a 12 hour retard.

Makes a great grilled hot dog bun! cantaloupe, cherries, black grapes, chips and pico de gillo. 1/2 ea plum and peach, 3 kinds of pickles and some Mexican beans - a typical but still a nice lunch to feature this  fine bread.

After 12 hours the mini oven was preheated to 500 F and (2) of Sylvia’s steaming cups with dish rage rolled up were micro waved until boiling.  The dough was covered with parchment and then the bottom of the mini’s supplied broiler pan.  The whole stack was overturned and the basket removed.

It was quickly slashed ¼” deep with a single sided razor blade, the steaming cups placed in the corner and the whole apparatus loaded into the mini oven’s bottom rack for 15 minutes of steam as the oven was turned down to 450 F.   When the steaming cups were removed at the 15 minute mark the oven was turned down to 400 F convection this time.

The boule was rotated every 5 minutes for the next 20 minutes when the boule was tested for temperature.   It was at 208 F and deemed done.   The mini oven was turned off and the bread allowed to sit in it with the door ajar for another 10 minutes to further crisp the skin.  It was then removed to a cooking rack.

 

Multi grain SD Starter - 25% Whole Grain Sourdough Boule     
      
Mixed StarterBuild 1Build 2 Build 3Total%
Multi-grain SD Starter **4500459.54%
AP025255014.12%
Dark Rye1500154.24%
WW1500154.24%
Spelt1500154.24%
Water452507019.77%
Total Starter135502521059.32%
** 15 g each Rye Sour, Desem & Spelt SD Starters   
      
Starter     
Hydration78.72%    
Levain % of Total25.12%    
      
Dough Flour      %   
Non - Diastatic Red  Malt20.56%   
Wheat Germ102.82%   
Dark Rye102.82%   
Spelt 102.82%   
Ground Flax Seed102.82%   
WW102.82%   
AP20056.50%   
Diastatic White Malt20.56%   
Bread Flour10028.25%   
Dough Flour354100.00%   
      
Salt71.98%   
Water 26073.45%   
Dough Hydration73.45%    
      
Total Flour471.5    
Water352.5    
T. Dough Hydration74.76%    
Whole Grain %25.77%    
      
Hydration w/ Adds75.29%    
Total Weight836    
      
Honey51.41%   

 

 

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