The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts


CT's picture


July 18, 2010 - 9:46pm -- CT



I'm new to baking bread, but I've made  a few different breads from a few recipes by now.  Every time I make bread I end up with the same problem: The recipe always specifies too little water.  usually by a lot (25-50%).  This is the case if i measure the flour by weight or volume.  Why is this?


boxodough's picture

water or dough temperature?

July 21, 2009 - 9:22pm -- boxodough

Hi all,


Newb here and I hope my questions not been covered before so here goes.  When I disolve my yeast recipes typically say 110-115f degrees but then after mixing (kitchen aide stand mixer) my dough temperature is very much warmer than what I understand it should be.  90 as opposed to 75ish?  So, what's more important here, my water temp to disolve yeast or dough temperature...or am I completely mixed up?  I'd really appreciate some help and clarification here!




somegeek's picture

Water Pan Placement

March 25, 2009 - 12:46pm -- somegeek

Today I moved my water pan from the middle of the lower rack to directly above one of the gas heat entrances on the side.  Instead of the pan just putting off some steam it came near a rolling boil for the duration of my bake.  I had steam alright! :)  My loaf seemed to cook quicker too.  Is this normal?  It did achieve a nice color though a little dark on one side(I shoulda rotated it about 15 minutes in).  Looking forward to cutting into this tomorrow after it sits for a day.

ques2008's picture


March 9, 2009 - 2:50pm -- ques2008

Hi everyone,

Maybe someone can provide advice.  I bought a metal steamer to make some Asian dumplings and rolls (they also call for dough).  For some reason, the steamer I have has lots of water which fall into the rice cakes or whatever I'm doing and then ruins my cakes.  Does anyone know how to prevent water from going into the food that's being steamed.  I've heard of flour sacks, opening the lid a tad, cheese cloths, but they all seem clumsy.  I saw some posts that bamboo steamers would absorb some of the water but I get conflicting views about bamboo steamers.

Rosalie's picture

I had reported with shock that my tap water had chloramines in it.  The spring water was behaving more like reverse osmosis water, so I'd started using tap water.  Mike Avery's plaint about his overly-soft tap water got me curious and I inquiried of our public works director about our water.  He said that due to the distance it travels from its source (from the Sacramento Delta to Morro Bay, a couple hundred miles at least and not what I'd consider a positive environmental situation), its treatment produces long-lasting chloramines.  Mike asked me to try making a starter with it as an experiment.

I have a variety of things to report, and I'm not sure what to make of all of them.  I tried to make a well-controlled experiment, but the biggest glitch was my inability to get reliable information about my water.  I took it to Culligan to be tested for hardness, and I learned that my water softener wasn't working.  That cost me $85.  I learned that the Arrowhead Mountain Spring Water I'd given up on had a hardness of 124ppm, so I don't know why I was having problems with it.  The reverse osmosis water's hardness was 27.4, quite reasonable.  But I forgot to ask for a chloramine analysis.

After the water softener was fixed, I took some more samples to Culligan to get another test.  A different person - the son of the owner and the heir apparent - did it this time and I liked the first one better.  The first time I got precise numbers in parts per million, but the second one just gave me vague softness declarations based on grains per gallon, their preferred unit.  The multiplication factor is 17.1, but he didn't even give me numbers.  He just declared all of my waters very soft, less than 1gpg or 17ppm.  I have my doubts.  Furthermore, he was unable to detect any chloramines in any of them.  He did complain that the samples were too small.  And he told me that because I'd drawn the samples the day before that the chloramines were probably mostly gone.  About all I got out of that visit was an assurance that my water softener was working and a reminder that my deck and garage front waters were both on the softener and that I had to go to the special line installed in the back yard that bypassed the water softener for the original hard water.  I now have another e-mail in to our public works director about the chloramines.  After all, that's what this experiment was supposed to be about.

Another thing that I learned was that reverse osmosis is an effective remover of chloramines.  And that aquarium owners are also very concerned about chloramines.  I learned that from Google and the Internet.

But back to the experiment.  I'm hoping to have more info later, but here's what I did.

For my starter procedure, I chose Mike Avery's You mix 1/4 cup water with 3/8 cup flour in a quart container, cover, put in 85-degree oven for twelve hours; repeat; then toss half and repeat until there's lots of bubbly.  That's a brief summary.  I chose three waters to experiment with:  Deck tap water (later changed to back yard water when I realized that the deck water was softened like the kitchen water); Kitchen tap water; and Reverse osmosis.  I was fairly methodical and did my best to keep from cross-contamination without being anal.  I started with the purest water starter and rinsed out the implements well between starters.  The oven with the light on has been my incubator, and the temperatures have been ranging from just below 80 to about 87.  And, of course, I keep a fairly detailed log.

I was surprised to see life from the beginning in all three.  I started on Saturday evening, fed Sunday morning (12 hours), Sunday evening (12 hours), then three times Monday (yesterday) because of my schedule.  I've fed it twice today and am wondering if the experiment is ready to be called over.  Maybe I should try baking some bread; but I'm a bit surprised at the result.

Since chloramines were the issue, I'd thought that the reverse osmosis water would do the best.  But it was consistently the worst.  It's been six hours since the last feeding.  The other two starters (and I've been using the hard water on the one for only the last two feedings) are at double, and the RO starter has hardly budged.

Well, I'm not sure where to go from here.  Whatever I do or learn from the city, I'll report here on the results.  The only reliable lesson here so far is that RO water is not good for starters.


Mini Oven's picture

Water absorption

April 7, 2008 - 9:27pm -- Mini Oven

Just found a gem of a tip:

"The more protein a flour contains, the more water it absorbs.  Flours can vary more than 20% in their ability to absorb moisture." 


Meaning.... when substituting flours in a recipe, you will need more or less water (moisture) if you use a flour with a different protein content!  

Mini O 

Rosalie's picture

Arrowhead Mountain Spring Water - I Have My Suspicions

March 19, 2008 - 9:28am -- Rosalie

Early on in my bread baking - at least this latest go-round - I noticed that my reverse osmosis water was not working very well in my yeast breads.  I read my recipes a little more closely and saw that they recommended spring water.  So I went out and bought Arrowhead Mountain Spring Water and found a big improvement.

(For those not in the know, the reverse osmosis process removes everything from the water except the water itself; so you end up with theoretically pure water.) 


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