My starter will celebrate his first birthday next month. It seems to be very robust, however two issues have plagued the process since starting. These issues are flavor and proofing, which may be related.

Process overview:

Flour (KA Bread) 100%

Water 65%

Starter 20% (have varied the hydration levels from 50% to 150%)

Salt 2%

Autolyse 20 min, add salt, first rise 2hrs, strech and fold, another 2hr rise, strech and fold, preshape, overnight in refrigerator, warm up then shape with final proof up to 3hrs.

The kitchen is typically ~70 F for the proof. Loaves look good, but oven kick can be as much as 50% as displayed in the attached pics. Minimal SD tanginess.

Any suggestions?

Thanks,

John Ambrose

for fermentation, resting and proofing? Or, do you...

I am trying to learn so I read a lot about building bread, but one (well, one at a time) thing I keep seeing, I don't get.  For example, I was just reading about making Scali on SteveB's web site at Bread Cetera. Thank you Steve, that is a great site, and the breads are gorgeous. There are multiple references to rising and resting at different and very specific temperatures for a specified time.  I see resting the biga overnight at 70F.  I see the ferment at 76F for 1 hour and 15 minutes, and I see proofing at 74F for 1 1/2 hours.  I see all this, and I understand it, but how do you do it?

How do you manage to control your temperatures so precisely in order to follow those instructions?  My house has variable and not all that well controlled temperatures.  They rarely, and never predictably, match the requirements of any given recipe at any particular time.  Is it as simple (not to say easy) as learning to vary the times to compensate for the temperatures?  Cooler takes longer, and warmer takes less time?  Those variations have to have an impact on the results though.  Can you compensate for that as well, or do you just take what comes of it?  I need help getting my brain around this so I can start trying to practice it.

OldWoodenSpoon

I stumbled upon this earlier.  I thought it was really interesteing!  This is reprinted from:  http://www.motherearthnews.com/Relish/Temperature-Influences-on-Bread-as-it-Bakes.aspx

Enjoy!

Temperature Influences on Bread as it Bakes

10/19/2007 12:00:00 AM

By Tabitha Alterman

Tags:

If you've been frustrated by trying to bake bread at home, learning something about what is happening as a loaf cooks can be helpful. The following chart is from Bread: A Baker's Book of Techniques and Recipes by Jeffrey Hamelman, director of the Bakery and Baking Education Center at King Arthur Flour. (You can read my recommendation of the cookbook here.)

77˚ to 122˚F (25˚ to 50˚C):Rapid increase in yeast fermentation; increase in enzymatic activity; beginning of crust formation; starch swelling; accelerated gas production and expansion contributing to oven spring

122˚ to 140˚F (50˚ to 60˚C):Rye starch begins to gelatinize; bacteria die; enzymes in yeast are inactivated; yeast reaches thermal death point (at about 140˚F)

140˚ to 158˚F (60˚ to 70˚C):Wheat starch begins to gelatinize; loaf expansion slows; coagulation of gluten begins; amylase enzymes reach maximum activity

158˚ to 176˚F (70˚ to 80˚C): Gluten coagulation is complete and dough structure is formed; enzyme activity decreases; rye starch gelatinization ends

176˚ to 194˚F (80˚ to 90˚C):Wheat starch gelatinization is complete; enzyme activity ceases

194˚ to 212˚F (90˚ to 100˚C):Maximum internal loaf temperature is reached; crust coloration begins

212˚ to 350˚F (100˚ to 177˚C):Maillard reaction develops crust color; ketones and aldehydes form, eventually contributing to flavor and aroma

300˚ to 400˚F (149˚ to 204˚C):Further crust color and flavor development through caramelization

I have a question about surface temperature of where you are kneading the dough.... I have a tiled kitchen counter and the temperature of it is rather chilly compare to the rest of the house... I find that the dough gets very rubbery after kneading for a bit.. Is it suppost to do that or do you think the temperature of the counter is effecting it.?

Hey there,
These are some of my observations regarding baking times and temperatures as related to different products.  Please feel free to add your own observations as these are based on my own equipment, ingredients, and techniques.

These are convection oven temperatures, so in a standard oven, I would add 25 degrees to each.  I'll be referencing the photo below and referring to both tables above.

Here are four types of bread that were cooked in the oven at the same temperature at the same time: (top left) Rustic White, (top right) Kalamata, (bottom left) Sour Rye, (bottom right) Multigrain.  All 12 ounce loaves were cooked for 22 minutes, all 24 ounce loaves were cooked for 35 minutes except the Rye (33 minutes).  All were misted before they went in (the Rye had an egg wash) and steamed when they went in the oven. 
As you can see from the picture and the color table, most of the coloring came in the first 22 minutes.  However on both of the top loaves there was a 'browning' that occured in the final 10 minutes that created a crispness and cracking in the loaves that didn't occur in the 12 ounce loaves.  Since I was baking a variety of loaves with low volume, I decided to compromise and end up with (in my eyes) perfect loaves and pretty good 12 ounce loaves, in order that I could 'save oven space' and minimize the time I had to fuss with the bread.  If I were to want smaller loaves with a similar crust and structure, I'd need to jack up the temperature to speed up the coloring timetable.  Keep in mind, it would still progress in the same fashion, just speeded up. If I wanted to, I could cook all of the rolls or small loaves at once at a higher temperature, cook the small stuff on the top rack of the oven to give them more color...
These are all work-arounds to get what I want, but in this case the easiest was what I did which happened to be a compromise that probably only I will notice.
Hope that answers some questions, but if it opens up some new ones, feel free to ask.
-Mark

On a regular basis, any bread that I bake that requires a 200+ internal temperature reading NEVER reaches the temperature which it supposed to. The obvious reason is bad measuring tool. Can't use that excuse because I've tried three thermometers now. Now I'm using the CDN digital "quick read" with the highest recommendation from Cook's Illustrated. It has a max reading well over 400. I've tried the probe that came with my oven, along with other probe style thermometers.

Today I was baking an, albeit large, loaf (in a pan) of 75% whole wheat/25% white/other. The recommended goal was 205. I ended up baking it twice as long as recommended, never reading above 197. This is the common top-out. I have a brand new GE electric convection oven (came with the new house) that isn't a dog, but not a professional quality, either. Just a basic reliable oven that cooks evenly.

I've tried placing pans on top of my cooking stone. I've tried using the convection. I've tried higher temps, lower temps for longer, etc.

Our elevation is around 2600. Could this account for this much of a disparity?

BTW, the bread never tastes raw...always good. I'm just more curious than anything...

Luckily my oven goes up to 300 degrees C (572 deg F), although I would love one that goes up to 400'C (572'F). I generally bake all my bread at 300'C - how about you?

I've had a number of discussions with TFL participants recently about sourdough rise times versus temperature and inoculation. Temperature has a big effect on sourdough rise times, and sometimes a starter appears unhealthy, when it is really just rising more slowly because of low temperatures in the kitchen during winter. Also, recipes that used to work seem to fail during the winter, but the colder temperatures may be the cause.

I have been thinking about creating starter so I can do sourdough breads. The problem I am perceiving now is that we are having a heat wave in Southern California, with highs frequently in the 90s.  Is this a bad time to start this?  Is waiting for more mild weather a good idea?

We don't run our air conditioner during the day while both of us are at work. 

Colin 

Hi. I've been lurking for a month or so (and baking for about a year)--what a wonderful community!  I'm excited that I'm going to have significant time this summer to spend baking, and I was wondering if any of you had some advice.  My apartment doesn't have air conditioning, so it is often upwards of 85 F.  I don't mind baking in the heat, but I’d like to figure out how to compensate for such warm ambient conditions.