I started a new starter about seven days ago, using an 'offhand' method that's always worked reliably for me in the past to produce a starter with the classic yeasty/sour/yummy smell, stable and robust, with good rising characteristics. Now the same method has produced a starter that seems to rise very well and smells great, but more like someone took the top off a Calvados still: lushly, almost 'ether-y' fruity-sweet and clearly kicking out a (probably) flammable mix of ethanol and acetones.

I started with organic rye flour and tap water, 1:1, and used a scrubbed-and-dishwasher-sterile (i.e., mostly sterile, but not surgically so) glass, lidded container (old pickle jar, clean metal lid, holes poked with a nail). Discarded 3/4 and fed with more rye for three days at 12-hour intervals. Ambient temp was on the high side - maybe 85-90 degrees. But the stuff was bubbling up in the predictable way and smelled like a rye flour starter at first -- i.e., normal, with that harsh rye edge.

Once I was seeing doubling in small amounts, I began feeding with white flour (KA bread flour), starting at roughly the same "pour off 3/4ths, add 1:1" proportions and intervals, slowly backing off on the liquid to make for a 'doughier' starter, which seems to produce (for me) a more sour loaf. The sweet smell emerged with the first white-flour feeding. The stuff rises normally (double-triple in 3-4 hours). And now I've risen a test loaf with it -- first rise looked textbook, as did the second, and the dough itself smells great, except there's definitely a hint of this 'liqueur' aroma around it.

I've read several TFL threads via Search for 'sourdough smell,' and I'm not too worried about this. I assume the starter will settle down with further feedings and probably stop being so tipsy. But I wonder if anyone can see, in my description (which I know is sadly loose -- I've done this enough times with dead-on results that I've gotten to assume things will always 'just happen' in a certain way) something that explains why this starter smells so different from my prior efforts. Thanks!

I am a novice baker. I started with a couple of no-knead style recipes and my wife recently bought me Peter Reinhart's "Whole Grain Breads". I am finding that with the WGB recipes the bread tastes great, but the crumb is very tight, and is crumbly when cutting. I know that I won't get the open crumb of an all white flour loaf, but I feel like I am doing it wrong. I have also noticed that I have to stir longer than the one minute suggested, and I am also having to knead much longer than the 2/3 minutes plus a minute after rest to get some a decent window pane, which still is barely making a window before tearing. I am kneading more like 10 minutes or more to even start. One thing I will note is that I am in Denver, CO so I am not sure how much the altitude and the dryness is affecting my results. I have had a little better luck with the transitional recipes than the 100% whole wheat, but still doesn't look anything like the pictures ;) 

I think my technique for kneading isn't the best. I am mostly just mashing and folding. I have seen a couple of videos that explain the virtues of the french fold, and other very little kneading required techniques. I haven't tried them because I am not sure how the fit into the normal flow of the WGB style recipes. I would appreciate any feedback or knowledge about ways that I can make my bread a little more open and less crumbly.

thanks

Bobby

So, I'm learning much from this website and have a steep learning curve right now. But, like Julie on the movie I must watch my beltline and my husband must too. As he said this AM after devouring half of the delicious (30% recipe) loaf of cinnamon raisin swirl bread, "You have to stop, don't make this again, even if I ask for it!!". Last night it was the "excess starter sourdough bread" that came out with the taste and texture of an unbelievable french bread. And the naan, sourdough whole wheat muffins, whole wheat sandwich bread, whole grain seed bread. That's just this past week.

I'm already freezing and giving a majority of it away to my parents and brother. The other side of the family only likes 100% soft white wonderbread style and sweet breads which is probably 10% or less of what I actually bake.

Anyway, how small can I make a recipe? Can I make it down to dinner roll size and just change the cooking time? I need to practice kneading, stretching, folding, the feel of the dough, retarding, all those things that make bread what it is. Learning what recipes I like to make and don't like to make. Learning how to play dough, shape dough, etc. Braiding was a great project with the Finnish Pulla bread that I made because it got my hands into the "feel" of a good workable dough.

Can I make a recipe with 250 total grams, 150 total grams, how small and still not lose the integrity and learning value from a recipe?

Tracy

for fermentation, resting and proofing? Or, do you...

I am trying to learn so I read a lot about building bread, but one (well, one at a time) thing I keep seeing, I don't get.  For example, I was just reading about making Scali on SteveB's web site at Bread Cetera. Thank you Steve, that is a great site, and the breads are gorgeous. There are multiple references to rising and resting at different and very specific temperatures for a specified time.  I see resting the biga overnight at 70F.  I see the ferment at 76F for 1 hour and 15 minutes, and I see proofing at 74F for 1 1/2 hours.  I see all this, and I understand it, but how do you do it?

How do you manage to control your temperatures so precisely in order to follow those instructions?  My house has variable and not all that well controlled temperatures.  They rarely, and never predictably, match the requirements of any given recipe at any particular time.  Is it as simple (not to say easy) as learning to vary the times to compensate for the temperatures?  Cooler takes longer, and warmer takes less time?  Those variations have to have an impact on the results though.  Can you compensate for that as well, or do you just take what comes of it?  I need help getting my brain around this so I can start trying to practice it.

OldWoodenSpoon

I bought this book a couple of months ago because the recipes looked so enticing. I've used Laurel's Kitchen Bread Book for many years and have always achieved very good results from her recipes and techniques. But, I wanted some new whole grain recipes and got pretty excited after reviewing the table of contents in the Reinhart book.

After making a few loaves from the Reinhart book, I'm perplexed and vaguely dissatisfied. The Reinhart breads seem much denser than Laurel's, and some of them have a sour, off-flavor. I've been able to achieve lighter loaves by kneading much longer than the recipes call for - like, 15 minutes instead of 4 minutes. Also, by using water in the soakers instead of milk, the sour flavor seems to have been alleviated.

My question is: do the techniques in the Reinhart book really produce better whole wheat bread than the traditional breadmaking methods? Is it really worth it to go through the prefermentation steps? Any feedback is truly appreciated. Or maybe someone can direct me to a book with updated whole grain recipes and traditional techniques. Thanks!

Hello again bakers,
This is the next video in the series - the longest yet, and most specific. A few people asked me specific questions about roll shaping, so this video is for them. It's easier to show you than to explain it in writing. I also show a little bit of home oven technique for baking on two racks. There's no commentary, so enjoy the music. And in case you're wondering who it is, (Trishinomaha) it's "Somewhere Over the Rainbow" by Bruddah Iz. Enjoy.

-Mark
http://TheBackHomeBakery.com

Norm, there's a Dutchess in there just to make you homesick for the bakery.

Hey there everyone,

This is the *new and improved* version of the kneading and folding video I posted a couple of days ago. As per some of your suggestions, I addressed the volume levels, intro commentary and video angles. I like it a lot better, and I hope you do to. In addition, I used Hamelman's multigrain dough this time, instead of whole wheat. (Floyd, could you put this video on the first thread also instead of the first video? I removed the first one already from YouTube- thanks in advance). Next video will be on shaping.

-Mark

Hey there everybody. I just made this baking video http://youtube.com/watch?v=QfaXbn5HpAY and put it up on YouTube - a little blurry, but I'll try putting a clearer version on our bakery site later. It's a 'how to' without the commentary (if a picture is worth a thousand words, then a video must be worth...). Anyway, let me know what you think, and if you'd like any other topics addressed in my future videos. The next one will be on kneading and folding whole wheat dough. Thanks!