I've been doing a bit of looking around and I'm running into contradictory information on what is meant by the term "straight dough"

In some instances, this is said to refer to the "flour, water, salt and leavening agent" mixture, i.e. NOT enriched bread.

In other instances, it is claimed to be the term for commercial yeast bread as opposed to sourdough bread.

Then you run into terms like "standard dough" which muck things up even more.

So, if I said "I made a straight dough", what would YOU presume this to be? 

This detail isn't addressed in the Handbook's glossary section.

Hello,

Having had a very successful experience with boiled pretzels, I was convinced bagels were a walk in the park.  The recipe in BBA seemed approachable enough -- doesn't take too long, doesn't require lye (I know...point of contention) and is ready to bake for breakfast.  I had a mediocre experience, however, and am looking for pointers from those of you who have had great success making "true" bagels.

The good part:    The dough was easy to mix up, the shaping instructions using classic wrap method were a piece of cake and everything looked just right.  I even found malt syrup in my local Whole Foods.  My only difficulty was the baking time.  In the foreward to the recipe, Reinhardt says total baking time is 15-20 minutes, but in the recipe itself it only describes 5 minutes plus 5 more.  I think this is a typo and the second, cooler baking time should be 15 minutes.

BUT...the real reason I am writing is to ask about the crumb and general texture/mouth feel.   I found the outside to be pleasantly and acceptably chewy, but the inside was a bit to "bread-like" for me.  The bagels were almost fluffy with a fair number of air holes inside.  I am used to a denser, chewier crumb and a bit more flavor.

Is success with the chewy crumb better achieved using a starter instead of yeast?  I suspect this would go a long way toward generating the right crumb.  Is there anything else that I'm missing?

All pointers are appreciated and I'm looking forward to Bagels:  Round 2

Thanks!

MommaT

I made another batch of the baguettes described previously in http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/11925/baguette-surprise-and-challenge.

The only significant changes in the procedure were:1) I did not add the salt until after a 50 minute autolyse, 2) I was more meticulous in gently pre-shaping and shaping and 3) I let the loaves proof more fully. 4) I also poured about twice as much water over the pre-heated lava rocks to steam the oven.

Well, there's good news and bad news: The bad news is that I seem to have over-proofed the baguettes a bit, resulting in my scoring not opening up real well. The good news is, first, the flavor of this batch is equal to the first. I'm ready to conclude this recipe is reproducible in my hands. Second, the crumb is significantly more open. And third, I have finally achieved the crackley (rather than crunchy) crust I have been seeking on my baguettes! I am really delighted.

The crust is thin and it sang loudly for a long time while cooling. Cracks developed in the crust. It breaks off in thin, sharp-edged flakes when you bite it! Woo Hoo! I am pretty sure the cause was the extra steam created by the combination of lava rocks and extra water.

Now, I have to test the steaming enhancement with other baguette formulas.

David

Hi,

I baked the second best tasting baguettes ever tonight, to my surprise. I would like to invite other baguette questing members to test my hypothesis as to why they are so good tasting.

This afternoon, I had the urge to have fresh baked baguettes with dinner. I've been out of town and very busy since returning. My starter needed feeding. I hadn't made a poolish or pâte fermentée. I was stuck with making a straight dough baguette that could be ready to eat in 4-5 hours.

I looked at the formulas in several books and decided to use Leader's formula as a basis, but with a different mixing approach, slightly higher hydration and different flours. Here's what I did:

Ingredients

Giusto's Baker's Choice flour 450 gms

KAF White Whole Wheat flour 50 gms

Water 350 gms

Sea salt 10 gms

Instant yeast 4 gms

Method

1. Mix all ingredients in a large bowl until the flour is hydrated.

2. Let rest, covered, for 20 minutes.

3. Stretch and fold in the bowl for 30 strokes. Repeat 2 more times at 20 minute intervals.

4. Transfer dough to an 8 cup glass measuring cup, cover tightly.

5. Stretch and fold once at 45 minutes.

6. Proof until 1.5 times the original volume (another 45 minutes).

7. Divide dough into 3 equal pieces, pre-shape as rounds and rest, covered with plasti-crap, for 10 minutes.

8. Shape into baguettes and proof on a linen couche until 1.5 times their original size.

9. Bake on a pizza stone at 460F with steam for 20 minutes.

10. Turn off oven but leave the loaves on the baking stone for another 5 minutes with the oven door ajar.

11. Cool and eat.

The crust was nice and crunchy. The crumb was not real open. But there was absolutely no smell of yeast, just a  wonderful, wheaty aroma. The flavor was delicious! Not the sweet flavor I look for in baguettes with longer fermentation. There was no recognizable flavor of whole wheat, just a deeper, more complex flavor than I generally get with an all white flour bread.

Why was it so tasty? The only thing I can think of is the flour mix I used. I would love for some one else to try this combination and let me know if they get extraordinary results. I will be trying this again myself, of course.

Oh. What was the best tasting baguette I've made? Gosselin's "original" formula (not Reinhart's revision). But this involves an overnight cold retardation and secondary mixing of added ingredients afterwards. Not a 4-hour project.

Any takers?

David

So for the first time this week, I got together some people would had expressed interest in starting up a bread baking club and we crowded into my tiny kitchen and baked a dozen baguettes!

Since the breads I made most recently were both sourdough ryes, I was looking for something different this time around that would work well for sandwiches. My first inclination was to haul out an old favorite, a honey whole wheat bread. While flipping through Bernard Clayton's New Complete Book of Breads, I happened across a buttermilk whole wheat recipe that I had not tried previously. Since I had all of the necessary materials on hand, I thought that I would give it a try. The recipe follows [with my notes]. I'll also include additional comments at the end

There was a comment in the "you know you're a bread baker" thread about feeling like you're "cheating" when you make a yeasted dough.

But... there's something awfully nice (and FAST!) about a comforting loaf of sandwich bread