I have the opportunity now to use steam injection in my baking. I was curious as to what effect the timing of steaming from the time of loading would have. I prepared a formula and created two identical loaves. I preheated the oven to 425º and loaded the first loaf dry with no presteam. After about 1.5 minutes, I loaded the second loaf in the same oven and steamed as soon as the oven door closed. I was amazed at the results:

The loaf on the left was the dry start loaf. There is actually a tiny bit of grigne ear* at the upper left side of the score but the score is otherwise flat. The loaf on the right started to bloom about 3 minutes into the bake and developed the gorgeous grigne ears* you can see.

My inference from this is that for maximum grigne ears*, the earlier the steaming the better. On a future bake, I will try a presteam just before loading as well as the initial loading steam to see what effect this will have. This also helps me understand one of the reasons I have had such a wide variation in the quality of my grigne ears* from bake to bake.

Hope this helps someone. Comments and questions are welcome.

*Edited on 4/8/11 to correct misuse of "grigne". The raised flap of crust is actually an "ear".

I am gearing up to make some sourdough Bao Zi (chinese stuffed, steamed bun). Scoured the web and there's really hardly anybody doing something like that. Most of what I found were people using a quick yeasted dough with white flour. 

I want to try a whole wheat sourdough Bao zi or Mantou (steamed bun)!! 

But before I start with the experimenting, I wanted to gather any tips...Anybody tried steaming sourdough before? Or making a stuffed sourdough that was steamed or baked? Difference between using a whole wheat vs. white wheat vs. white whole wheat? 

Thanks! BTW, this is my first post and haven't properly introduced myself, but am glad to find this forum. Greetings to all! 

For the past year and a half I’ve been trying to generate a healthy dose of steam in my extremely well vented gas oven. Steam that would be present in good volume for at least the first 15 minutes.  My experimentation had mixed results.  The bread tastes great, but I want the appearance be as good as the taste.

I’ve tried water in a preheated pan, ice cubes in a preheated pan, a cup of water over preheated lava rocks in a pan, spraying the bread, covering the bread, plus the great tips offered by Giovanni and SylviaH using hot wet towels.  While these techniques sure did humidify my house, open cuts and a nice grigne just didn’t materialize. 

One method that did work with some success was SteveB’s.  Alas, my thrift-store aluminum roaster cover is a tad wider than my stone, so I don’t have a good seal between the lid and the stone.  

David Snyder had written about the steaming technique recommended for home bakers by SFBI 

It looked interesting, but I didn’t want to buy yet another gizmo.  So I made my own version by  poking holes through a foil loaf pan (three for a buck at the local dollar store) and setting it on top a layer of lava rocks in the bottom of a metal loaf pan.   The holes were large in the first version.

I experimented with both steaming versions over Thanksgiving weekend using Hamelman’s sourdough formula.    

The loaf in the background was baked covered, using SteveB’s technique. Oven and stone preheated to 500F, loaf loaded and covered (the cover was not preheated).  Two shots of steam were directed through the hole in the cover, plus one cup of water was poured into a wide broiler pan containing lava stones (done because of the cover overlap).  I forgot to turn down the heat until I removed the cover, 15 minutes later. Bake finished at 460F.

The loaf in the foreground was baked uncovered.  After loading the bread into the preheated 500F oven (and stone), one tray of ice cubes was placed in the foil tray resting over the lava rocks on the left side of the oven and about 1.5 cups of water poured into the broiler pan containing lava rocks on the right side of the oven.  Temp reduced to 460F.  After 15 minutes the broiler pan was dry and emitted no steam so it was left in the oven.  The foil-trayed loaf pan was removed.  Although I screwed up the scoring on the bread in the foreground, the results looked promising.

I didn’t think the sufficient steam had been generated, so I made much smaller  holes in another foil pan and replaced the original version. 

I mixed the same dough the following weekend.  Oven and stone again preheated to 500F.  A  batard was scored and loaded.  This time TWO trays of ice cubes were dumped into the foil tray and 2.5 cups of water poured into the broiler pan w/lava rocks.  About 16 minutes later I removed the loaf pan; I could see the steam still coming off the lava rocks.  I left the broiler pan in, as that water had evaporated.  Here’s the result.   

To make sure this was no fluke, I followed the same procedure with the second batard.  It worked again!  

I am overjoyed to finally have figured out how to generate an abundance of steam in my oven for those crucial first minutes.

Finally, my bread looks as great as it tastes! Thank you SteveB, David, and all the other fine bakers who have been so inspiring.

Today I loaded two batards into my oven.  Same formula (Hamelman's Vermont SD with Whole Wheat), same scoring, same size, same length of time in the oven.  Very different results.   I loaded them both on my baking stone.  I  placed a narrow aluminum roaster pan over one loaf and then I poured hot water over a cast iron pan of lava rocks situated beneath the baking stone.   I removed the foil tent after 10 minutes.  At that point, the tented loaf looked unpromising...it didn't have as much oven spring and was pale whereas the untented loaf was already browning -- it had decent oven spring but the slash wasn't opening up nicely.  But after another 20 minutes or so of baking the tented loaf came out looking much better.  It had blossomed more than the other loaf and its crumb was more open. The untented loaf had sort of seized up instead of blooming.  The tented loaf had a slightly thinner/softer crust.  Frankly, I'm not that impressed with either of these loaves - I prefer a little thicker, crackly crust,  but I felt the experiment was worth posting.  I will play more with the tenting technique.  I should note a disclaimer--my oven is a 1950 GE Hotpoint and I don't think it holds steam very well so that, more than anything, might account for the difference in the two loaves.

Crumb shot of tented loaf

Crumb shot of untented loaf

Your comments and suggestions are welcome!

Barbara

Looks amazing and relatively easy to do in a regular oven, bearing in mind you do not go nuts with it and blow out the light bulb but basically you steam to keep the outside of the bread moist as the inside bakes correct?  Else you will have a shell like a turtle on the outside and it be nice and done on the inside is that the premise of steaming?

I guess just opening up the oven every few minutes and squirting some spray water on the bread directly is probably not the same is it?

Cheers!

Thinking about boiling bagels, I decided to try placing my sourdough bread into a steam oven for a few minutes before baking.

I am now routinely slashing, steaming for 4 minutes, and then transferring the loaf to the convection oven to bake.

I have also used this method for yeast loaves:

Another method I have tried is to steam on the cooktop using a steaming saucepan and an appropriate pan. This gives a very similar result to the steam oven, but is restrictive in the size and shape of loaf.

Here are 3 loaves made at the same time for comparison.

Top: Sprayed with water before placing in oven.
Left: Steamed on cooktop
Right: Steamed in steam oven.

We enjoy the rather chewy thin crust, and I particularly like the sheen obtained.

So here I am staying in a rented condo and feeling the urge to bake my own bread. Started some pretty wet foccacia type bread last night, final rise in the frig overnight and all ready to bake it this morning. Problem. I couldn't figure out how to light the gas stove, tried all the ways I could think of SO I used the only alternative I could think of and "baked" it on the stove top. Limited supply of pots here and I had to use a very thin aluminum kettle (alternative was the frying pan) which had a lid. I lined it with alum foil to make the bottom a little thicker.

 I know that people have made bread directly in a fire forever, but I haven't and it felt pretty desperate to use this cheapo alum pot! Amazingly, to me, it came out really well....I used a low flame for about 25 minutes and while the loaf was steamed rather than baked, it has a good texture and tastes yummy.

I'm interested in other people's experiences "baking" bread on a stove top....a heavy Dutch Oven would be much better I imagine but I don't want to buy one as we are here on vacation. What things have you tried??

Covering loaves during the first third to half of the bake is one way of achieving a humid environment in a home oven, Its purpose is to approximate the effects achieved by injecting steam into commercial ovens. It enhances oven spring and the spreading of cuts (bloom) in the loaves. This technique has been discussed extensively and repeatedly on TFL.

Various members have used pyrex bowls (with the risk of shattering), stainless steel bowls, larger roaster covers and ceramic covers such as "La Cloche." Each has its advantages and limitations. Most bakers want to have covers for both boules and long loaves such as baguettes and bâtards. Oven size and baking stone size present limitations to the feasible options.

After having had success baking boules under a stainless steel bowl, I wanted to use a cover for baking long loaves. I used the cover and the base from a large enameled steel roaster a couple of times. Its length was just right for my baking stone, but it was a bit too narrow to comfortably accommodate two bâtards. I had loaves stick to the sides of the roaster a couple of times, damaging the crust. Looking for alternatives, I found a couple of large, light-weight aluminum roasting pans in my pantry. They are 15.75"x11.25"x3". My stone is 16"x22", so they fit on the stone well.

They don't have quite as good a seal with the surface of the stone as more precisely made alternatives, but the results of using them is pretty close to that achieved with other covers. On the positive side: They are meant to be disposable (although I use them over and over again), and they are very inexpensive. Also, they come in a wide variety of sizes and shapes.

The brand I have is called "EZ-Foil." Here is a link to the company's web site:

http://heftybrands.pactiv.com/HeftyEZFoil/index.aspx

The online vendors I found only sell these in large quantities. I got mine at a local hardware and housewares store in a package of two pans for something like $5.00. Maybe less.

I have no financial connection with this company and am not saying it's "the best." It's just the one I happen to have bought. 

David