Ive been looking into various recipes and explanations of creating a starter, and i thought id put a summary here.

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Pretty well all of the recipes include a replication step like "divide in two, disposing of one half, and adding back a particular ratio mixture as a replacement". A very few have slightly different steps in the first few days but end up with this process at the end.

Additionally almost all recipes have the same general description for success: a mixture that when replicated displays a leavening effect (rises to about double its size) and a sort of "large bubble" foam on a consistant basis over several days. Notably many authors mention that it is common to see a false leavening effect caused by undesirable bacteria in the early phase of the process that then disappears after several days only to be replaced by the real leavening effect a few days later.

By far the most common recipe comes down to: take a 1:1 by weight mixture of flour and water and replicate every 24 hours until stable. Some recipes suggest 12 hours, and some require specific types of flour, with many recommending wholemeal or rye flour until the mixture is stable and then switching to AP afterwards. Most suggest that the unit be a cup of water. Also a number suggest using a 1:2 mixture (1 cup flour to 1 cup water is about 1:2 flour to water by weight),

Occasionally a few additives are suggested:

Acidic additives: These usually include some kind of acidic juice, with pineapple or orangejuice in the initial steps. The idea is that the juice lowers the ph preventing undesirable bacteria from growing but providing a good environment for wild yeast while at the same time providing sugars for the wild yeast to feed on. Vinegar is also suggested occasionally for similar reasons.

There are a much lower number suggesting using milk products. In this case the intention seems to be to encourage lactobascili, and also possibly the same justification as for the acidic additives.

Diastatic malt is also sometimes recommended with a tiny amount being added in the initial steps, also people that use AP flour will be unknowingly including tiny amounts of this as it usually added by the miller. The intention of this seems to be to provide sugar to the wild yeast, but enzymatically from the starch from the flour. Sometimes sweetener is suggested for similar reasons.

A few sources seem to suggest that you can manufacture wild yeast from commerical yeast, or that commerical bakers yeast will revert to wild.

One or two seem to suggest using things like unmilled rye or barly, or using the skins of wild or field grown grapes.

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When i decided to make a starter I had access to a commerical starter "Seitenbacher(c) Natur Saurteig" that is widely available in grocery stores where I live in Germany.

Since I thought that was kind of cheating I decided I would make two, one a replication starting from some left over dough from a batch i made with the starter, and one with raw material. Aside from the fact that one included a small part of the dough I did exactly the same thing with both: replicating of a blanced blend of rye and wholemeal flour mixed at 1:1 with water with the base weight being 200 grams. I was very careful not to contaminate the wild one with the commerical, always working with the wild one first. On the third day I added a tiny amount (0.1 of a gram or so) of diastatic malt after I replicated (i didnt have any to add on the first day), And by the 8th day i had stability. The two behave somewhat differently with the wild one being a little slower to rise, but rising further in the oven, and they make a nice loaf mixed together. :-)

My opinion of this is that Im not all that convinced by the additives, with the exception of the diastatic malt. For the juices the reason is that I think its hard to control how acidic the formulation goes, and that citrus frust have their own associated bacteria and yeasts, which are probably not as appropriate as the yeasts we see living naturally on grain. (I will say though that I have seen one particularly cogent argument, incidentally posted here, in favour of using juice.)

For the milk i think its just generally a bad idea, some of the bascili in milk can kill you and also most milk you can buy is pasteurized anyway, and i think that the bascili we want grow naturally on the grain and on our hands and other places. We dont need it from milk. Sweetener I think is a bad idea. In general they are preservatives,

My feeling is that one wants to encourage the wild stuff on the grain to replicate and that introducing things that are totally foreign wont help. Diastatic malt is an exception because it is a substance that does naturally occur in wheat and other grains and so adding a bit more doesnt drastically change things. Also its effect is slower, something that i think is important, providing a steady supply of sugar over time instead of a huge amount at the start which tapers off over time, something which doesnt seem to me to be inclined to make for a stable environment, and after all one thing we are looking for is a stable environment.

Anyway, Im no expert, form your own opinions. But most importantly try it, it isnt very hard. :-)

Greetings! Wanted to create a blog, and give a bit of history and aspirations. I have looked over this site a few times and finally decided to join. I am 31, I have been baking for almost 2 years. I was an army brat, and grew up in Frankfurt and Stutgartt. I first started with pretzels, and have come up with a realy good simple recipe that can be made with packaged yeast or starter. I live in south florida now though, and I'm not so sure the wild yeast here is quite up to snuff. Perhaps the heat and humidity play a role, the first batch and second batch yield a good bread, but the starter then tends to sour too much and turn into a grey lump of bla. I am also quite the avid ametuer chef, and take pride in measuring nothing. This is not a skill that is transferrring well to baking breads. I have been trying to bake a good baguette. Traditionally I have started with my yeast and warm water, then add slowly the flour, of course type depends on what I want, until I get a good dough. But there are books that say to measure and add all at once. There are books that say to knead vigorously for 8 min. There are books that say to knead lightly for 15 min. Some say to add the salt last, some immediatley. Some want a cold rise, some want a warm rise. Some want 3 rises, some want 1. To spray or not to spray? So I will be interested in some recipes and techniques, and I will try and figure out what i am doing when i make pretzels and post. Aufwiedersehen!      

I have never had good luck with sourdough starters. When I lived in "Nearly Canada, North Dakota" my starters never developed any sour taste. I think it was just too cold in our home, even when I placed on our hot water heater. Then again, I only tried them in the winter.

Now I live in "Nearly Mexico, Arizona". Our home is a constant 74 degrees. This time I'm trying a rye and water starter with the 3 step method of 2 oz rye/2 oz spring water for 48 hours, 2 oz rye 4 oz spring water 18 hours, 4 ounces wheat flour, 4 ounces spring water.

I just started stage two. At the end of stage one, I've got great bubbling, but little volume growth (was supposed to double, I gained about 25% volume). The smell is very tangy, but very unpleasant tasting. Not to be gross, it tastes like barf. It is not the definite musty taste. No sign of mold. Is this the normal taste for rye starter?

Thanks, and 17 1/2 hours to go until stage three!

made my first sourdough starter with bottled water and flour, equal amounts by volume.  (I hear you all screaming BY WEIGHT!)

after making the original batter I let it sit at 75F and fed it after 24 hours, went to work, came home and cheked on it, LOW AND BEHOLD A FROTHY MESS!  (about 36 hours total time)

the flour i used was 5 Roses AP and KA AP 1:1 ratio.

Roses adds asorbic acid to their flour and AP adds barly malt.  Both supposedly enhance yeast by feeding it or making it work longer and faster. can i attribute my quick starter to this??

im a newbie, and any thoughts would be appreciated.

 -cheers

Let me detail how I started my first starter.

I took some 2 year old Carl's dried starter and rehydrated it according to package directions. I used white unbleached bread flour and tap water which is not overly chlorinated..that is it does not taste of chlorine.

Day 1--no action.

Day 2--inoculated with one tablespoon of starter to 1 cup of water and 1.5 cups of flour.

Day 3--inoculated with one tablespoon of starter to 1 cup of water and 1.5 cups of flour...tiny bubbles throughout.

Day 4--inoculated with one tablespoon of starter to 1 cup of water and 1.5 cups of flour. ..fewer tiny bubbles.

Day 5--inoculated with one tablespoon of starter to 1 cup of water and 1.5 cups of flour--nothing after 12 hours. no bubbles. looks dead.

Panicked. discovered this site.

REFED after 12 hours 1 cup of water and 1.5 cups of WHEAT FLOUR

AFter three hours mixture is FULL of tiny bubbles.

The starter is kept at room temperature 72 F.

Will update and beg for help regularly.

David.

Over the years I have been feeding my starters using the "doubling at least" method to insure that the organisms got plenty to eat. That meant I would save say 100 grams of starter to which I would add equal parts by weight of water and flour ending with 300 grams of refreshed starter. I would take from that starter for baking and dump all but 100 g when it was feeding time. I never let the base mother starter get lower than 50 grams out of fear of loosing it.

What I have recently discovered is that I get a much stronger level of activity if I dump almost all of my 100% hydration starter out and start with basically an empty glass save the remaining amount after emptying the glass. I then add a few tablespoons of tepid water and enough flour to make a batter and mix it up. You only need enough old starter to make a milky mix when you add the water. I have even taken it a step further and added a little water to the empty starter glass, stirred it around a bit to make it milky and then poured the water into a clean glass and added flour to make a batter. 12 hours later it's all happy and trying to grow out of the glass. I suspect I am multiplying the volume by at least 100 times or more. The beasties seem to love it.

So, for those of you who are worried that you need to maintain a certain amount of starter as a base lest you don't have enough to inoculate the next batch. Worry not. You just have to experiment one time to learn how virulent these organisms are.  

Eric 

I brought my starter out from the fridge, fed it and left it to rise at room temp for 12 hours. It rose ~250% and started to fall. I fed it and placed it in the fridge. Over the course of five days, it rose 100% in the fridge. I brought it out this morning, removed half and fed it and placed it in my oven w/ the light on to rise for use later today.

Question is, is there a window of how long you can use your starter after feeding and placing in the fridge? Would it eventually rise the 250% it did at room temp in the fridge?

My starter has been active but no leavening after seven days.  Started with 1C flour and 1C water.  Replacing half of the starter w/ fresh AP flour and distilled water every 12 hours or so.  I get small bubbles and hooch but no big rise.  I'd read a tip to use your oven as a proofing box by turning on the oven light to heat the inside.  I am reading 78ºF on the middle rack where I have my jar of starter and now have about 1/4" of leavening above my mark.  Good stuff!

Room temp in our house is around 68-69 so this heat for the starter seems welcome.  Wish I woulda started day one in the oven with the 78ºF.  Imagine it'd be further along by now.

Hans

P.S. - the next time I make a starter, it will be with 2T of water and equal weight of flour.  I am using 1/2C of each and it's been a bit wasteful when I could achieve the same with smaller quantities and bulk up later when I want to bake bread.

Hello -- great forum. I have a question. I have two new starters going, don't feel like making a proofing box and have to keep turning the lights on and off to keep the oven at the right temperature. I might look into getting a lower wattage bulb or unscrewing one, but there are cages on them and it looks like a hassle. At night the starters get cold and if I forget to set the timer they get too hot. Actual conversation at midnight: "Honey, that light was supposed to be on, right?" "NO! Oh no! They're going to die! Go turn it off!". "This is crazy, you know." "Yeah, but go turn off the light, please?" 

I have put a pan of warm water in there which helps maintain the heat longer, but would rather just leave it on the counter. During winter, I have no warm place in the house except for my bed and we're not like that. During summer, it's way too hot in here, but I could manage to keep it in the basement but might not bake much anyway so that might not matter.

Can I just feed twice per day and let it adapt to the environment we have? In winter the thermostat is set at 53 during the night.

Where might I by sourdough starter in San Francisco?  I'm going there on vacation.  It'd be foolish not to bring some starter home with me.  So, then, if I buy a bunch, can I freeze it or do I need to dry it first?

Steph