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starter

yves's picture
yves

Ive been looking into various recipes and explanations of creating a starter, and i thought id put a summary here.

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Pretty well all of the recipes include a replication step like "divide in two, disposing of one half, and adding back a particular ratio mixture as a replacement". A very few have slightly different steps in the first few days but end up with this process at the end.

Additionally almost all recipes have the same general description for success: a mixture that when replicated displays a leavening effect (rises to about double its size) and a sort of "large bubble" foam on a consistant basis over several days. Notably many authors mention that it is common to see a false leavening effect caused by undesirable bacteria in the early phase of the process that then disappears after several days only to be replaced by the real leavening effect a few days later.

By far the most common recipe comes down to: take a 1:1 by weight mixture of flour and water and replicate every 24 hours until stable. Some recipes suggest 12 hours, and some require specific types of flour, with many recommending wholemeal or rye flour until the mixture is stable and then switching to AP afterwards. Most suggest that the unit be a cup of water. Also a number suggest using a 1:2 mixture (1 cup flour to 1 cup water is about 1:2 flour to water by weight),

Occasionally a few additives are suggested:

Acidic additives: These usually include some kind of acidic juice, with pineapple or orangejuice in the initial steps. The idea is that the juice lowers the ph preventing undesirable bacteria from growing but providing a good environment for wild yeast while at the same time providing sugars for the wild yeast to feed on. Vinegar is also suggested occasionally for similar reasons.

There are a much lower number suggesting using milk products. In this case the intention seems to be to encourage lactobascili, and also possibly the same justification as for the acidic additives.

Diastatic malt is also sometimes recommended with a tiny amount being added in the initial steps, also people that use AP flour will be unknowingly including tiny amounts of this as it usually added by the miller. The intention of this seems to be to provide sugar to the wild yeast, but enzymatically from the starch from the flour. Sometimes sweetener is suggested for similar reasons.

A few sources seem to suggest that you can manufacture wild yeast from commerical yeast, or that commerical bakers yeast will revert to wild.

One or two seem to suggest using things like unmilled rye or barly, or using the skins of wild or field grown grapes.

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When i decided to make a starter I had access to a commerical starter "Seitenbacher(c) Natur Saurteig" that is widely available in grocery stores where I live in Germany.

Since I thought that was kind of cheating I decided I would make two, one a replication starting from some left over dough from a batch i made with the starter, and one with raw material. Aside from the fact that one included a small part of the dough I did exactly the same thing with both: replicating of a blanced blend of rye and wholemeal flour mixed at 1:1 with water with the base weight being 200 grams. I was very careful not to contaminate the wild one with the commerical, always working with the wild one first. On the third day I added a tiny amount (0.1 of a gram or so) of diastatic malt after I replicated (i didnt have any to add on the first day), And by the 8th day i had stability. The two behave somewhat differently with the wild one being a little slower to rise, but rising further in the oven, and they make a nice loaf mixed together. :-)

My opinion of this is that Im not all that convinced by the additives, with the exception of the diastatic malt. For the juices the reason is that I think its hard to control how acidic the formulation goes, and that citrus frust have their own associated bacteria and yeasts, which are probably not as appropriate as the yeasts we see living naturally on grain. (I will say though that I have seen one particularly cogent argument, incidentally posted here, in favour of using juice.)

For the milk i think its just generally a bad idea, some of the bascili in milk can kill you and also most milk you can buy is pasteurized anyway, and i think that the bascili we want grow naturally on the grain and on our hands and other places. We dont need it from milk. Sweetener I think is a bad idea. In general they are preservatives,

My feeling is that one wants to encourage the wild stuff on the grain to replicate and that introducing things that are totally foreign wont help. Diastatic malt is an exception because it is a substance that does naturally occur in wheat and other grains and so adding a bit more doesnt drastically change things. Also its effect is slower, something that i think is important, providing a steady supply of sugar over time instead of a huge amount at the start which tapers off over time, something which doesnt seem to me to be inclined to make for a stable environment, and after all one thing we are looking for is a stable environment.

Anyway, Im no expert, form your own opinions. But most importantly try it, it isnt very hard. :-)

 

 

afjagsp123's picture

Rye/Water starter - smell and taste??

July 30, 2008 - 7:21am -- afjagsp123

I have never had good luck with sourdough starters. When I lived in "Nearly Canada, North Dakota" my starters never developed any sour taste. I think it was just too cold in our home, even when I placed on our hot water heater. Then again, I only tried them in the winter.

Now I live in "Nearly Mexico, Arizona". Our home is a constant 74 degrees. This time I'm trying a rye and water starter with the 3 step method of 2 oz rye/2 oz spring water for 48 hours, 2 oz rye 4 oz spring water 18 hours, 4 ounces wheat flour, 4 ounces spring water.

ehanner's picture

Starter Refreshment Discovery

June 20, 2008 - 8:17am -- ehanner

Over the years I have been feeding my starters using the "doubling at least" method to insure that the organisms got plenty to eat. That meant I would save say 100 grams of starter to which I would add equal parts by weight of water and flour ending with 300 grams of refreshed starter. I would take from that starter for baking and dump all but 100 g when it was feeding time. I never let the base mother starter get lower than 50 grams out of fear of loosing it.

somegeek's picture

Starter Question... how long can I use?

June 16, 2008 - 8:35am -- somegeek

I brought my starter out from the fridge, fed it and left it to rise at room temp for 12 hours. It rose ~250% and started to fall. I fed it and placed it in the fridge. Over the course of five days, it rose 100% in the fridge. I brought it out this morning, removed half and fed it and placed it in my oven w/ the light on to rise for use later today.

Question is, is there a window of how long you can use your starter after feeding and placing in the fridge? Would it eventually rise the 250% it did at room temp in the fridge?

somegeek's picture

Oven w/ oven light for proofing - good stuff!

June 2, 2008 - 3:38pm -- somegeek

My starter has been active but no leavening after seven days.  Started with 1C flour and 1C water.  Replacing half of the starter w/ fresh AP flour and distilled water every 12 hours or so.  I get small bubbles and hooch but no big rise.  I'd read a tip to use your oven as a proofing box by turning on the oven light to heat the inside.  I am reading 78ºF on the middle rack where I have my jar of starter and now have about 1/4" of leavening above my mark.  Good stuff!

sadears's picture

Travel'n...looking for regional starter

May 14, 2008 - 4:07pm -- sadears
Forums: 

I'm going on a road trip...

CO; NE, Chicago, IL; RT 66 to Santa Monica, CA.

Then, I'm travelling up PCH (Hwy 1).  It's a no-brainer that I'll find starter in San Francisco (though I'd love an address or two!;-D).  I'll follow Hwy 1 to OR then on to WA.  I will then continue through ID, MT, and WY, the going home to CO.

Anywhere I can find starter (that tastes of that location...AKA SF sourdough) would be much appreciated.

Don't worry about the exact city.  I can filter those.

lungalux's picture

wild yeast

May 9, 2008 - 2:39pm -- lungalux

I am just starting to experiment with making bread and made my own yeast by mixing AP flour and water together and feeding it daily (twice daily at the beginning) per the Joy of Cooking instructions.  It's been 2 weeks and I have what I think is a nice looking bowl of wild yeast - it's pretty fluid (not runny) and has lots of holes on the surface and it smells pretty "yeasty" I think.  Whenever I feed it, it deflates and puffs right back up about 12 hours later. 

 I continue to feed it daily, but I'm not sure if

Windischgirl's picture

"old dough" rye starter

April 28, 2008 - 2:25am -- Windischgirl

I am looking for info on an unusual rye "old dough" starter...my 75 yo dad (born in Hungary/Slovenia) recalls his mom starting her rye breads with a hunk of old dough that was permitted to dry out.  A day or two before she was ready to bake, she would crumble this dried dough into water and once it started to form a "sponge" she was ready to bake.

I will have to check with him if the bread was 100% rye, but I suspect so...they were poor and wheat was hard to come by.

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