AgroEast Baking & Milling Co. in Kiev Ukraine is DESPERATELY looking for a description of the 2-Stage Detmolder process for its bakery in Kiev, Ukraine. The normal 3-State Detmolder will not fit into the logistics and production schedule; we need 8-10 hours for the final build before mixing the batch ingredients.

Anyone out there familiar with the 2-State Detmolder? can you share it with us...?

Cheers

My neighbor, who is from Finland, is craving rye bread.

And not just the 70% Detmolder stuff that I am working to master (yeah, after I master bread at all...) - Finnish rye.

This is a flat bread shaped in a rectangle or a round bread with a hole in the middle.

I was wondering if the collected wisdom of the TFL'ers could help deliver a taste of the homeland...

Thanks!

I bake two loaves of this sourdough most weekends.  Since I've learned to control the temperature during the whole process, I'm getting consistent results every time.

My formula is from Hamelman's Bread - Vermont Sourdough with 10% organic rye flour.  My wife likes more sour flavour, so I retard the final fermentation in the refridgerator for about 8 hours.  I was worried at first that I wouldn't get the over spring, but I take the dough from the refrigerator and straight into the oven and get the same results.  There is a marked increase in the level of sourness.

Hamelman's Rye with Flax Seeds1

Hamelman's Flaxseed Bread - crumb

Jeffrey Hamelman's Flaxseed Bread from "Bread" is a 60% sourdough rye. It is almost exactly the same formula as his 66% sourdough rye, with the addition of flaxseeds added to the dough as a soaker. This is a delicious bread, but the wonderful flavor really comes together the day after baking.  One day 2, it is mildly sour with a prominant, hearty rye flavor mixed with a very distinct flavor of flaxseed. The seseme seeds on top, which Hamelman says are traditional, add another nice flavor and a nice additional crunch.

I have made many rye breads before and love them, but this is my first attempt at one of Hamelman's German-style rye breads. I must give credit to Eric (ehanner), whose beautiful rye breads from Hamelman inspired me to take the plunge.

 David

Greenstein’s Corn (RYE) Bread. This is my first try. :) 

I'll re-do it tand make it:
- less salty
- I'll give it about 30 minutes of proofing after shaping (not more!) - maybe this will help me to avoid crust cracks
- I'll try to add more sourness by fermenting my rye sour overnight, cos I am ethnically Russian and we like sour rye breads
- I'll try to make the crust softer, cos my husband likes it softer. :)

Front view

At night :)

In the morning :)

Thanks in advance for your comments!
:)

A first try to bake this bread. :)  I'll re-do it to make it:
-less salty
- I'll give it about 30 minutes of proofing after shaping (not more!)
- I'll try to add more sourness by fermenting my rye sour overnight
- I'll try to make the crust softer.

I'm indexing the bread recipes in all my books (quite a task) and I'm getting a chance to see what all recipes I have.  In one book, "Making Bread at Home" by Tom Jaine, I found this 100% whole grain recipe: German Sourdough Rye Bread.

Your starter uses 60g wholegrain rye flour, 1/4 cup water at 110 degrees, and a pinch of caraway seeds.  You leave that at about 80 degrees for two days, stirring twice a day.  As always, I used my oven with the light on.

Then you make the leaven using 2 tablespoons fo the starter, 1 1/4 cups water at 110 degrees, and 300g more of the rye flour, leaving that for eight hours at about 85 degrees.  Again, I used the oven with the light on.  80 degrees, 85 degrees, I take what I can get.

Finally you take 500g wholewheat flour, 300g rye, 15g fresh yeast (I used 8g active dry), 1 3/4 cup water at 110 degrees, 2 teaspoons salt, and the ripe leaven.  You mix the dry ingredients and make a depression to add the wet.  I was surprised that there was no more mention of caraway seeds, so I just added 1 tablespoon - maybe it should have been 2 (I like caraway).  I also added 1/2 (I think) cup gluten for two reasons:  I really wanted this to succeed, and I have it in my arsenal so I may as well use it.  After you get it all mixed together, you let it rest for ten minutes in a warm spot, then you knead for at least ten minutes.

Next it rises at about 85 degrees for 1 1/2 hours until "nearly doubled".  I was so surprised at how well my concoction rose!

Finally you shape.  He has you dividing into two loaves and baking them either together in an 8.5x4.5x2.5 inch pan or separately in two 7.5x3.5x2.25 pans.  I divided them into eight mini-loaves.  The shaped loaves rise for 30-45 minutes, and the oven heats to 450 degrees.

You place them on an upper rack and bake for 20 minutes (15 for the two smaller pans) at each of 450, 400, 350, spraying three times in the first five minutes.  I just realized that I misread these instructions and didn't bake as long as the recipe called for, but they turned out fine (200+ internal temp) because they were mini loaves.

I simplified the directions, believing all you artisans can fill in between the lines.

Anyway, not bad.

Nellie and my German Sourdough Rye Bread: Nellie considers my German Sourdough Rye Bread by Tom Jaine

Light Rye & pumpernickel

Silesian Light Rye from Leader's "Local Breads" 

Silesian Light Rye crumb 

Pumpernickel crumb 

The Silesian Light Rye from Daniel Leader's "Local Breads" is even lighter than the usual "Jewish Sour Rye." It is a lovely bread that my wife and I always enjoy fresh or toasted.

 Leader's recipe calls for free form loaves, but I've usually made it in brotformen. I recently bought a couple of oval brotformen from SFBI, and this was their maiden voyage. The dough was quite extensible. It was hard to form the loaves short enough for the brotform, so they ended up sort of brot-deformed. 

Also, Leader calls for caraway seeds as an optional coating, but I like them in the bread, so I added them for the final minute of mixing.

Greenstein's pumpernickel is another favorite of mine. It is made with rye sour, pumpernickel flour, first clear flour and altus (stale rye bread, soaked in water, then wrung out and added to the dough). I use granular caramel coloring, which not only makes the color "black" but adds a bitter flavor without which this bread just doesn't taste "right" to me. This is a bread that makes good sandwiches, but my favorite way to eat it is spread with cream cheese , untoasted, as an accompaniment to scrambled eggs. That's my breakfast for tomorrow morning.

Dough for Nury's rye is retarding to bake tomorrow. I'm thinking of cutting some of the dough into squares to bake as rolls (hamburger buns?). I may set up another bread or two, if time allows.

Hey! I haven't baked for the past two weeks. I was getting kind of twitchy. I feel so much better now. :-)

David

Rusian rye bread 2 boules

Russian Rye Boule

Russian Rye Crumb

Sauve posted the formula for this bread in Kosher-Baker's blog topic, "Diary of a Starter." As a confirmed rye bread lover, I was curious about how it would compare with the Jewish, Czech and Polish ryes I had already baked. I'm glad I tried it.

Formula: 

Firm starter (73% hydration):

43 g. rye starter
195 g. whole rye flour - must be finely groud
142 g. water

Mix, cover and leave for 6-7 hours at 85-90 F.  The original recipe calls for 1/3 of the mother starter and fermenting for 3-4 hours, but I find that using more traditional proportions and doubling the fermentation time works equally well.

Dough (69% hydration):
97 g. whole rye flour
290 g. high extraction flour
333 g. starter
261 g. water
9 g. salt
17 g. sugar
1 g. instant yeast

Mix all ingredients and knead until you have well developed gluten.  In KA it takes me about 12 minutes at second speed.  Ferment 80 min at 85-90 F.  Flatten the dough and shape a tight boule.  Proof in basket, seam up, 50 minutes at room temperature.  There's no need to slash.  Spray with water before baking and 1 minute before taking out of the oven. Bake with steam 50 minutes at 440-450.  Let the bread cool thorougly, 2 hours at least.  The loaf should have shiny surface without tears and tight uniform crumb.  Using medium rye flour instead of whole rye and/or bread flour instead of high extraction flour also works well.

I used my white rye starter and fed it with Guisto's Organic (whole) rye flour. I used this rye flour and KA First Clear flour in the dough. I mixed in a KitchenAid Accolade. Rather than making one large boule, I divided the dough in half and made 2 boules of 525 gms each. They proofed in wicker brotformen. I baked them on a stone with steam from hot water into a hot cast iron skillet. The boules were baked for 25 minutes at 450F. I turned the oven down to 440F, because the boules were getting pretty dark pretty fast, and continued to bake for a total of 40 minutes.

The crust remained very firm, even after the loaves were fully cooled. The crumb is like that Suave showed - rather dense but not dry or "heavy" in the mouth. The taste is decidedly sour (surprisingly so). If I were doing a blind taste of this bread, I would not identify it as a rye. It tastes more like a whole wheat sourdough bread to me. There is a noticeable sweet taste, too. I assume this is from the sugar. I don't think I have ever baked a sourdough bread with added sugar before, although I have used malt and honey in sourdoughs, when the recipe called for them. I expect the bread to mellow overnight and taste significantly different tomorrow.

My thanks to Suave for sharing this recipe. If he (or others) would like to tell us more about the background of this bread, I'm sure it would be appreciated.

 David