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Sourdough

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teaman4077's picture

Starter Experiments: Kombucha

December 14, 2012 - 3:20pm -- teaman4077

Hi all,

I recently created my first Sourdough starter.  I've been fermenting various things for a while and tackled sourdough late November.  I started two starters.  One using a more traditional method on another site, and another in which I used active kombucha (a fermented tea that uses a symbiotic culture of bacteria and yeast, like sourdough) for the initial hydration of the white flour, and afterwards used water.

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

The last two bakes were a lower and then a higher percentage of whole grains  and more complex that this one at 48% whole grains.   We also used the KA mixer on speed 3 to knead the dough for 8 minutes instead of using French slap and folds and we baked the bread in a DO instead of on a stone with steam.

 

The rye sour and YW combo levain consisted of dark whole rye and water that was built over 10 hours with (2) 1 hour stages and one of 8 hours. After the levain had doubled we refrigerated it for 12 hours and then let it come to room temperature the next day for 2 hours as we autolysed the flours.

  

The AP, spelt, whole wheat, rye, potato flakes, oat flour ground flax seeds, baked potato, malts and Toady Tom’s Toasted Tidbits were autolysed with the Baltika #6 Porter and home made red wine vinegar for 2 hours before combining with the salt and the levain in the KA for kneading.

  

The dough was rested for 20 minutes and then 4 sets of S&F’s were done on 20 minute intervals.  The caraway and coriander seeds along with a new ingredient; caraway leaves and roasted re=hydrated onions were incorporated on the 3rd set.

 

The rye, spelt and ww sprout chits were incorporated on the 4th set.  Don’t forget to start your ww sprouts 48 hours ahead and the rye and spelt seeds 24 hours ahead to make sure they all chit together and are ready when needed.  Also take the 1 T of dried onions and roast them for a couple of minutes at 350 F to get them dark, not burned like I did the first time,  and then re-hydrate them in 3 T of water 4 hours ahead of time.

 

After the 4th set of S&f’S the dough was allowed to develop and ferment for 1 hour before being pre shaped and shaped into a boule and placed into a rice floured basket inside a trash can liner where it was allowed to ferment for another hour before being retarded for 8 hours in the fridge.

 

The dough was then allowed to come to room temperature and ferment and develop some more on the counter the next day for 6 hours since the temperature in the kitchen is only 67 F. 

 

The oven was preheated to 450 F.  The basket was upended into the cold DO, poorly scored (can’t seem to ever do it right in a DO), and placed into the hot oven that was immediately turned down to 425 F where the bread steamed itself for 25minutes.  Then the lid was removed and the bread baked for another 20 minutes.

  

10 minutes after the lid came off the bread was removed from the DO and continued to bake directly on the oven rack.  The bread was also rotated 180 degrees every 5 minutes until it reached 205 F on the inside.  The bread was allowed to crisp on the oven rack for 10 minutes with the oven off and door ajar before being moved to the cooling rack.  It sure smells tasty.

 

The crumb came out open and moist with a great chew due to the sprouts.  The taste was very good.  Instead of the dominate onion taste like last time, we had a caraway flavor that came through due to the caraway leaves and not the caraway seeds.  This is what Americans would call rye bread even though rye only makes up about 27% of the flours used in the bread.  We really like the way this bread tastes.  It is complex and earthy.  The combination of whole rye being twice as much as whole spelt and WW and the whole grains making up 50% of the flours is one we like very much.  The YW and SD levain combination also helps to lighten the crumb and open it up thanks to the YW while still getting a SD taste to come through too.

Formula

Mixed Starter

Build 1

Build 2

 Build 3

Total

%

SD Starter

10

0

0

10

1.75%

Yeast Water

0

60

0

60

13.73%

Dark Rye

30

60

40

130

29.75%

Water

30

0

40

70

16.02%

Total Starter

70

120

80

270

61.78%

 

 

 

 

 

 

Starter

 

 

 

 

 

Hydration

100.00%

 

 

 

 

Levain % of Total

23.62%

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dough Flour

 

%

 

 

 

Spelt

42

9.61%

 

 

 

WW

42

9.61%

 

 

 

Dark Rye

34

7.78%

 

 

 

Toady Tom's Toasted Tidbits

10

2.29%

 

 

 

Red Malt

2

0.46%

 

 

 

White Malt

2

0.46%

 

 

 

Potato Flakes

10

2.29%

 

 

 

Ground Flax Seed

10

2.29%

 

 

 

Oat Flour

10

2.29%

 

 

 

AP

275

62.93%

 

 

 

Dough Flour

437

100.00%

 

 

 

Salt

9

2.06%

1.67% total weight of flour

Baltika Porter

290

66.36%

 

 

 

Dough Hydration

66.36%

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Total Flour

572

 

 

 

 

Porter 290 & Water

425

 

 

 

 

Total Dough Hydration

74.30%

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hydration w/ Adds

76.92%

 

 

 

 

Total Weight

1,193

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Whole Grains

48.43%

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sprouts

 

%

 

 

 

WW

15

3.43%

 

 

 

Rye

30

6.86%

 

 

 

Spelt

15

3.43%

 

 

 

Total Sprouts

60

13.73%

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Add - Ins

 

%

 

 

 

Barley Malt

10

2.29%

 

 

 

Caraway and Coriander

12

2.75%

 

 

 

Total

32

7.32%

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1 tsp Dried Minced Onion - Baked

 

 

 

 

Brown @ 350 F, Re-hydrated & Drained

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1/2 tsp Caraway Leaves

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

50g of Baked Potato with Skin - included in weights

 

 

 

Floydm's picture
Floydm

Earlier this week on a rainy day working from home, I fed my starter with 50% dark rye flour and 50% bread flour.  The next morning I made a dough with 10 ounces starter, 11 ounces water, 16 ounces of bread flour, and a teaspoon or two of salt.  All measurements are approximate: this wasn't something I tended to carefully, just a "background process" that I had running while doing other things.

That was a much larger proportion of ripe starter to fresh flour than I usually bake with but, boy, let me tell you, did this  dough ever pop.  I folded it two or three times during the day, shaped it in the afternoon, and an hour later baked it in the pot I got with the Average Joe Bread Kit.  465 preheat, 425 bake, 25 minutes covered and another 30 minutes or so uncovered.

It came out great.  One of the best rising loaves I've ever made, and incredibly thin, crackly crust.   The only real flaw was that I overdid it with the flour on the outside while it was rising, but that's easy enough to brush off.  

* * *

Hey! If any of you are Tumblr users, we started a blog for The Fresh Loaf there.  Follow us!  It'll mostly just point recipes and posts here, though we'll also recirculate good baking posts we find on Tumblr.

 

isand66's picture
isand66

There are many things in my life that I have a passion for, with bread  being near the top.  Recently I was very saddened to learn of the sudden passing of a terrific baker and person Eric Hanner.  Eric was a frequent contributor on The Fresh Loaf website and he inspired me with his passion for baking and touched a great many people along the way.

His willingness to share his vast baking experiences and cooking expertise as well photography pointers left an unforgettable mark on all that came in contact with him.  One of Eric's favorite recipes was his Jewish Rye which goes great with his homemade pastrami.  I had a spirited conversation with Eric regarding our pastrami passion and  I couldn't wait to try his pastrami after I had baked his famous rye.

In tribute to Eric I offer my own inspired Jewish Rye (I'm Jewish...therefore it's a Jewish Rye :0).  I have not used my yeast water starter in a while so I refreshed it with some oranges due to my apples having gone bad.  I also created a rye sour converting my AP starter in 3 stages including adding sautéed onions in stage 2.  Both starters were finished by bringing them from 100% hydration to 65% hydration.

I also picked up some interesting ale at the local supermarket which was brewed with lemon peels, ginger and honey so naturally I needed to use some in this rye bread.

The final loaf ended up being by far one of the best rye breads I have  made to date.  The onions combined with the 2 starters and the ale made this a wonderfully tasty moist bread perfect for a pastrami or corned beef sandwich or a smear of cream cheese.

Procedure

Yeast Water Starter Build 1

60 grams Pumpernickel  Flour (KAF)

60 grams Yeast Water Starter

Mix the flour and Yeast Water in a bowl until thoroughly combined.  Cover the bowl and let it sit at room temperature for around 6 hours.  The starter should almost double when ready to proceed to build 2.

Build 2

Add ingredients below to starter from above and mix until incorporated.  Cover with plastic wrap and let sit at room temperature for 6 hours.

100 grams Pumpernickel Flour

100 grams Yeast Water

Build 3

Add flour to starter from above and mix until incorporated.  Cover with plastic wrap and let sit at room temperature for 4 hours or until bubbly and either use immediately or put in the refrigerator for the next day.

100 grams Pumpernickel Flour

10 grams Yeast Water

(Note: I made extra starter since I wanted to use this for another bake.  You can cut the amounts down to make the 125 grams needed in the recipe)

Rye Sour Starter Build 1

63 grams AP Starter

63 Pumpernickel Starter

75 grams Water

Mix the flour, starter and water in a bowl until thoroughly combined.  Cover the bowl and let it sit at room temperature for around 4-6 hours.  The starter should almost double when ready to proceed to build 2.

Rye Sour Starter Build 2

100 Pumpernickel Flour

100 grams Water

123 grams Sautéed Onions (sautéed in olive oil)

Mix the flour and water with the sour starter from build 1 along with the onions.  Cover and let sit at room temperature for 4-6 hours until doubled and nice and bubbly.

Rye Sour Starter Build 3

102 grams Pumpernickel Flour

Add the flour to the rye sour from build 2 and let it rest covered for 4-6 hours until bubbly and nearly doubled.

Main Dough Ingredients

300 grams Rye Starter from Above

125 grams Yeast Water Rye Starter from Above

400 grams First Clear Flour (KAF)

80 grams White Rye Flour (KAF)

50 grams Rye Chops (KAF)

30 grams Potato Flour (KAF)

357 grams Tenacious Traveler Shandy Ale

18 grams Seas Salt or Table Salt

8 grams Caraway Seeds

1 Large Egg (for egg wash only)

Procedure

Build your Yeast Water levain and rye sour starter the day before you are ready to bake.

The evening before you want to bake, mix the flours, rye chops, caraway seeds and the ale.  Mix on low-speed in your stand mixer or by hand for about 1 minute until the ingredients are combined.  Let the dough autolyse for about 20 minutes to an hour.

Next add both levains along with the salt and mix for 4 minutes on low.  The dough will come together and be slightly sticky.  Place the dough in a slightly oiled bowl and do a couple of stretch and folds.  Cover the bowl and let it rest for 10-15 minutes.  Do another stretch and fold in the bowl and let it rest another 10-15 minutes.  Do another stretch and fold and let the dough sit out in the covered bowl for another 1.5 hours.  Place the dough in the refrigerator until ready to bake the next day.

When ready to bake take the dough out and leave it covered in your bowl for 1.5 to 2 hours.  Next divide the dough into 2 loaves and either place in a banneton or from into batards and let them rest in floured couches for 1.5 - 2 hours.

About one hour before ready to bake, set your oven for 500 degrees F.and make sure you prepare it for steam.  I have a baking stone on the top shelf and the bottom and use a heavy-duty rimmed baking pan that I pour 1 cup of boiling water into right as I put the loaves into the oven.

Score the loaves as desired and brush each loaf with a simple egg wash using 1 whole egg and a couple of teaspoons of water.

When ready to bake place the loaves into your oven on  your oven stone with steam and lower the temperature immediately to 450 degrees.  It should take around 30 minutes to bake  until the rye breads  are golden brown and reached an internal temperature of 200 - 205 degrees F.

Let the loaves cool down for at least an 2 hours or so before eating as desired.

 

isand66's picture
isand66

I wanted to make a bread to bring into my new office and my wife had just cooked some bacon for our grilled cheese with bacon sandwiches so naturally I needed to use the left-overs in a bread.  I started out with the Italian Country Bread from Peter Reinhart's BBA book and changed most of the ingredients while adding a few additional as well.

I used my AP starter instead of a biga and I added some maple syrup instead of sugar.  The combination of flours I used along with some cracked wheat and wheat germ turned this into a great rustic bread with a nice chewy crust and open crumb.

My only regret is I didn't double the recipe so I had an extra loaf for myself.  The new office crowd devoured it and commented that I was welcome to bring in additional bread whenever I visited.

Ingredients

453 grams 65% Hydration Starter Refreshed

84 grams First Clear Flour

84 grams Sir Lancelot High Gluten Flour (KAF)

84 grams Durum Flour

28 grams European Style Flour (KAF)

28 grams Potato Flour

24 grams Wheat Germ

16 grams Cracked Wheat

18 grams Olive Oil

18 grams Maple Syrup

226 grams Water at room temperature

11 grams Sea Salt or Table Salt

36 grams Chopped Cooked Bacon (feel free to add more if desired)

Directions

Using your stand mixer or by hand, mix the flours and cracked wheat and wheat germ together with the water and maple syrup for 1 minute just until it starts to come together.  Let the dough autolyse for 20 minutes to an hour.  This will let the flour absorb the water.

Next, add the starter by breaking it up into pieces and mix along with the salt for 3 minutes.  After 3 minutes add the bacon to incorporate it into the dough and mix for 1 more minute.  You should end up with a slightly sticky ball of dough that has started to become smooth.

Remove dough to your lightly floured work surface and need for 1 minute and form a ball.

Leave uncovered for 10 minutes.

Do a stretch and fold and form into a ball again and cover with a clean moist cloth or oiled plastic wrap.

After another 10 minutes do another stretch and fold and put into a lightly oiled bowl that has enough room so the dough can double overnight.

Leave the covered dough in your bowl at room temperature for 2 hours and then put it in your refrigerator overnight or up to 2 days.

When ready to bake the bread, take the bowl out of your refrigerator and let it rest at room temperature for 2 hours.  After 2 hours shape the dough as desired being careful not to handle the dough too roughly so you don't de-gas it.  Place it in your bowl, banneton or shape into baguettes.

Let it sit at room temperature for 2 hours covered with oiled plastic wrap or a wet cloth.

Pre-heat oven with baking stone (I use one on bottom and one on top shelf of my oven), to 500 degrees F.

Slash loaves as desired and place empty pan in bottom shelf of oven.

Pour 1 cup of very hot water into pan and place loaves into oven.

Lower oven to 450 Degrees and bake for 25 - 35 minutes until bread is golden brown and internal temperature reaches 200 degrees.

Let cool on cooling rack for at least 2 hours and enjoy!

I think I have a ghost in my house...or a hungry cat!
Crust and Crumb came out very tasty

 

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

This is another take on a multi-grain bake we did not s long ago that you can find here;

60% Whole Grain SD / YW Bread With Caraway, Rye Chops, Coffee and Cocoa

 

This time we upped the whole grains to 75% and the hydration to a little over 85%.  We dropped the chops and added multi-grain sprouts.  The whole grains and sprouts were rye, spelt and whole wheat.  A combination we like very much as long as the rye equals the other two grains.

 

We also decided to make this bread a little more Russian by using their Baltika #6 Porter for a majority of the liquid in this bread and all of the dough wetness if you overlook the barley malt.

 

We were overcome by guilt and also knowing that The Hempster would not be her kindly self if we left out the seeds so we tossed in some caraway and coriander to perfume this dark bread in a traditional way - but not too much.

 

Hanseata, probably in a fit of non-hempness, is also the creator of her very fine wild rice bread that we like so much.   Thinking she would still be upset that there are no hemp seeds in this bread, we plunked in some cooked wild rice hoping to appease Her Hempness with one last gesture of jester.

 

Keeping with the black theme this bread was calling out for, we also added in some caramelized onions, quite a lot actually, with its deglazed reduced juices as Eric, Andy, Ian and so many TFL bakers are wont to do out ofa  honed professional education and experience for many of them that know what they are doing and a playful, inquisitive wonderment of the strange for Ian and myself.

  

One last shot at anti-establishment went to the Combo YW and SD rye and Desem starter and levain we cooked up over two builds.  As we contemplated the dark path we were about to trip along, in total disregard of anything sane or normal, my apprentice became edgy, quite uncomfortable really and took on the look of one sick puppy. No, it wasn’t Toady Tom’s Toasted Tidbits at fault here even though we put 15 g of them in the mix.

  

It is a look that I see most often right before she upchucks - which she did... then murmuring under her lowly growl something about death to all dark baking masters or another…….. It seemed she got sick after noticing that the bread lacked nuts.  She recovered quickly after the upheaval when she realized there were already plenty of nuts out of their shells in the kitchen as it was - so no extra nuts were required for this Holiday bake.  

  

After all of what would pass for bread 101 on Empress Ying’s home planet, we hoped that this bread would be a shade darker than a dark one should be and also one that we could be proud to pair with the fine Pate Maison that we had baked and smoked up for the Holidays the day before.  Hopefully, both will pair well with a nice Malbec from Argentina, if one could afford it and a plate of various exotic cheeses from other places even more expensive.

 

Hey, it’s the Holidays and who needs another pair of Santa socks, snowflake ties and Snowman stocking caps anyway.  So, as an option, save enough bread by not getting those things and splurge on some foreign hooch and cheese to share with family and friends instead - all while making the bread and pate that much better.

The crust came out dark, shiny and crispy but, after a 24 hour wait before slicing, it went soft with a slight chew.  This bread cut ¼” slices easily without crumbling.  The crumb was not heavy, slightly open, soft and very moist with little gloss.

 

The taste was where this bread really shines.  Subtle coriander and caraway flavors combine with a stronger caramelized onion taste and the chew of the wild rice and sprouts to go with the complex flavors of the porter, cocoa and coffee.  Very tasty indeed. 

 

We have now eaten it plain, toasted with butter, as a sandwich and toasted with pate – just delicious and the perfect pate platter mate.    

  

Method

The method was straight forward if you remember to start the WW sprouts a day before the spelt and rye sprouts since they take 48 hours to chit instead of 24.  The levain was built over (2) stages of 8 and 4 hours each with an overnight retard of 12 hours following the 12 hours on the counter

The flours, salt, Toady Tom’s Toasted Tidbits, ground flax seed and the red and white malts were autolysed with the Baltika  #6 Porter for 1 hour after my apprentice had tasted about 205 ml of the 500 ml bottle to make sure that it wasn’t a covert left over cold war poison of a 3rd kind.

Once the autolyse and levain came together, we did 10 minutes of French slap and folds and then 3 sets of S&F’s on 30 minute intervals where the seeds and rice were incorporated in the 2nd set and the sprouts on the 3rd set. 

The dough was allowed to ferment and develop for 1 hour before being shaped into an 800 g and one near 500 g loaf and panned. The dough was allowed to proof for 1 hour in a trash bag on the counter before being retarded for 12 hours in the fridge. 

Once out of the fridge the small loaf was allowed to proof for 4 hours on the counter.  The larger one proofed for 4 hours on the counter at 65 - 68 F and an additional 1 ½ hours at  85 F in the make shift microwave proofer that had a cup of boiling water in it. 

Both of these should have been baked in the mini oven but Big Betsy was preheated to 500 F instead with 2 of Sylvia’s steaming pans and a 12”cast iron skillet full of lava rocks on the bottom rack.  The stone was put on the very top rack of the oven to project radiant heat downward to the top of the loaves.

As soon as the small pan went in the temperature was turned down to 450 F for 15 minutes of steam. When the steam was removed the temperature was turned down to 350 F, convection this time.

After 5 minutes the bread was removed from the pan and finished baking directly on the oven rack.  The bread was turned 180 degrees every 5 minutes until the internal temperature reached 190 F. Total baking was 30 minutes when the bread was removed to the cooling rack.

The larger loaf was baked the same way through steam but took an extra 15 minutes at 350 F to reach 190 F internal temperature.

Formula

Mixed Combo Starter

Build 1

Build 2

Total

%

SD Starter

5

 

5

0.99%

Yeast Water

10

 

10

2.63%

WW

10

15

25

6.58%

Rye

30

45

75

19.74%

Spelt

10

15

25

6.58%

Water

40

75

115

30.26%

Total Starter

95

150

245

64.47%

 

 

 

 

 

Starter

 

 

 

 

Hydration

100.00%

 

 

 

Levain % of Total

20.14%

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dough Flour

 

%

 

 

Toady Tom's Toasted Tidbits

15

3.95%

 

 

Whole Wheat

35

9.21%

 

 

Dark Rye

141

37.11%

 

 

Whole Spelt

35

9.21%

 

 

AP

154

40.53%

 

 

Dough Flour

380

100.00%

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Salt

8

2.11%

 

 

Russian Baltika Porter

305

80.26%

 

 

Dough Hydration

80.26%

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Total Flour

507.5

 

 

 

Water & Russian Porter 305

432.5

 

 

 

T. Dough Hydration

85.22%

 

 

 

Whole Grain %

74.58%

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hydration w/ Adds

85.51%

 

 

 

Total Weight

1,266

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Add - Ins

 

%

 

 

Red Malt

5

1.32%

 

 

White Malt

5

1.32%

 

 

Barley Malt

20

5.26%

 

 

Ground Flax Seed

15

3.95%

 

 

Add- In Total

45

11.84%

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Multigrain Sprouts

 

%

 

 

WW

10

2.63%

 

 

Rye

20

5.26%

 

 

Spelt

10

2.63%

 

 

Total Sprouts

40

10.53%

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Other Stuff

 

 

 

 

Caramelized Onions.

100

26.32%

 

 

Cocoa

10

2.63%

 

 

Instant Coffee

10

2.63%

 

 

Caraway Seeds

8

2.11%

 

 

Coriander Seed

5

1.32%

 

 

Cooked Wild Rice

100

26.32%

 

 

Total Other Stuff

233

61.32%

 

 

This lunch plate has some thin sliced sliced pate with 100% whole spelt bread, aged super sharp crumbly cheddar cheese, a pickled Serrano pepper, half a Granny Smith apple, some carrot coins, half an avocado, black and pinto re-fried beans, cabbage salad with black raspberries on non fat yogurt. 

 

edwardf's picture

Sourdough, and problems in the oven

December 6, 2012 - 6:26am -- edwardf

So my sourdough has not been behaving lately and I was wondering if someone could troubleshoot for me. I am following this recipe http://www.wildyeastblog.com/2007/07/08/my-new-favorite-sourdough/ which previously given me good results. I will post some shots of the crumb and recent bakes so see what you guys think. 

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