Hello,

         I have decided to make a sourdough starter.

Using approx 15 grams of bread flour and 15 grams of fresh pineapple juice, I have created this

It has a consistency of thick pancake batter.

I have the starter in a glass jar, with a loose lid on top, and its sitting next to a rice cooker for warmth.

The last starter I made didn't seem to rise enough when I made bread, even after a 5-10 hour first rise.

My hopes are that this starter will be more active.

Kody

Hi,

I'm making a three day fermentation bread that I've made many times before. This morning, on day three, I bring it to the table to add the rest of the flour, the salt and kneed it and I noticed that there is an inch of sour water on top and no bubbles. It really doesn't look like normal or alive at all. Sadly, I think that I should just turf it, make a quick bread for today and start over, but I just want to make sure that its not salvageable? Is really the case?

Thanks!

Yesterday I was researching various rye bread formulas and techniques trying to come up with something I could make with what I have on hand (dark rye flour and from a sour dough culture). I was thinking of a Jewish or a German Rye. The Bread Baker's Apprentice was a little help but still didn't have a formula to go on. Several years ago a friend (he was the head baker in the first bakery I use to work at) gave me his formulas, study guides and notes from when he attended Dunwoody Institute back in the early 1960's. I pulled those formulas out and found one for a Sponge Dark Sour Rye.  Here are the results.  2 of the 3-1 1/2 # loaves.  Baked 2 tonight and will bake the 3rd in the morning.

.

Hello I am new to this site, I have been experimenting with homemade breads for a few years now. Recently I decided to have a go at sourdough, I followed the instructions in Hugh Fearnly Whatsit-whatsit's "River Cottage everyday cookbook". I have made a few loaves and the results have been strange verging on the unpleasant, the bread tastes like I used vinegar instead of water. When I have had shop/baker bought sourdough loaves they have not been like this. I was hoping you could give me a few pointers on how to achieve a less sour sourdough, as I am getting to the point where thinking of chucking the starter and going back to bought yeast. I will give a basic description of process I have used, unfortunately it is in metrics I will try and give approximate imperial measurements as I go but 28g is approximately 1oz and 28ml is approximately 1 fl.oz assuming American ounces are the same as UK ones.

The starter:

To make my starter following the book, I started with 100g (4oz) of wholewheat flour mixed with enough warm water to for the consistency of "thick paint". I attempted to trap as much air in the mixture as possible as instructed by the book. Once the mixture starts producing small bubbles (6 hours-3 days (in my case about 6 hours)) add another 100g (4oz (at some point in the process I worked out that 100g is about a heaped 1/2 cup and used that instead of weighing out flour every time) of flour and enough warm water to bring it back to the consistency of "thick paint". My starter got going quickly and exploded from the confines of it's container on it's first night. I some what attribute this to having and Aga (Rayburn) in the kitchen and thus a warm climate, although the recipe does say to keep it in a warm kitchen or cool airing cupboard. From this point on I discarded half my starter daily, (and continue to do so) added 100g of flour and enough warm water to take it back to the "thick paint" consistency. Recently I have started using white flour instead of wholemeal in order to make a white loaf and see if that would turn out as sour and it did.

The loaf:

After about 9 days of feeding the starter I attempted my first loaf. At feeding time I put half my starter in a bowl instead of throwing it away. I added 250g (9oz) of flour and 275ml (10fl.oz) of warm water, mixed it and left it "overnight" (8-10 hours) to form a "sponge". After that process I added another 300g (11oz) of flour, 1tbs of oil, a good pinch of salt (10g) and kneaded it for about 10 mins until it looked and felt like well kneaded bread dough (based on my experience of making bread with shop bought yeast). It was then left in an oiled bowl to raise "while you are at work" (8-10 hours). Then knock it down and knead for approx 1-2 mins, shape it and leave it to prove (raise) for 1-4 hours (until doubled in size). Then bake in a hot (250°C (480°F)) oven for approximately 45mins with a pot of boiling water until golden brown and makes a hollow sound when tapped on the bottom.

I have attempted this with wholemeal, white and a mixture of flour. The results always come out very very sour I would appreciate any suggestions to achieve a less sour result. I am more looking for the tang of the shop/baker bought sourdough than the outright vinegaryness of the stuff I have made so far.

Help! my starter is great but my bread is not sour enough! here's my formula:

Feeding every 12 hours 1:1:1 (retained starter, flour, water) with 50% reduced bran flour, 25% whole wheat flour and (recent change to get more sour flavor) 25% rye flour and I keep it on the counter at about 65-70 degrees right now. Doubles like a champ every 8-12 hours.

I am using Dan Lepard's pain au levain recipe...1 cup starter per loaf, autolyse 15 min, brief hand knead, S&F every 45 min (4x) bulk ferment at about 65 degrees (dough temp is around 73 degrees). Pre-shape, rest, shape and proof (sometimes for the recommended 2 hours at room temp, sometimes for 12-24 hours @45 degrees. Continue proofing (if cold) 1-2 hrs at room temp, bake per usual. Getting great crust, great crumb, oven spring etc...but barely ANY sour flavor. What's strange to me is that my starter tasted straight is so sour it makes my mouth pucker...but none of it shows up in the finished product...what to do? Thanks for your help :-)

~Krista

Hi all, I have SEVERAL questions, and just find myself becoming more and more confused and frustrated the more I try to dig and research these topics out. I am hoping someone can help me. Here are my questions: 

1. I do NOT like SOUR tasting bread. However, I like the idea of having my own self-propagating starter. Is there any way to have a starter that will prodice bread that is not SOUR? 

2. That being said, I ordered 2 starters from a lady on ETSY, not knowing anything about San Francisco Sourdough (which is reportedly a Very Sour bread), I now own 2 starters made from her starters. A whole wheat San Fran, and an EXTRA sour san fran.  Do I need to TOSS these and start all over with something else, or is there ANY way to salvage these from my use AND all the EXTRA starter I have in the fridge from daily feedings? My intention was to use the extra fro pancakes, muffins, etc. I have a good 3 cups of each stored in the fridge of EACH that I would hate to waste, but if you think there is no way for me to use them and enjoy them, then please let me know so I won't become more frustrated and waste more ingredients. 

3. Those of you familiar with Friendship bread.. Has anyone had success with a starter of this kind withOUT using commercial yeast? 

4. Has anyone had success using a SOUR sourdough starter in a bread recipe that did NOT turn out sour? 

This is al I'll ask at this time, since the list goes on and on since I'm now so confused. lol  

Thanks for any helo! 

n

I have been maintaining a whole wheat starter for a few months mostly making variations on Hamelman's Pain Au Levain.   While these breads are very nice, they tend to be almost imperceptibly sour.   A few days ago I took my trusty starter and went off in a different direction with it.   I did an overnight counter ferment with 550 grams total of equal parts white, wheat, and rye flour, 350g water, and 250g starter.   The next day the dough was very soupy and not extendable, but  I managed a rough boule shape.   While the dough expanded a lot in the oven it didn't get taller, so the final bread was a very wide and flat (less than 2 inches tall) pancake.   I was ready to toss it based on looks alone, but when I tasted it I was surprised to find it was extremely and very pleasantly sour.   The crumb was pretty nice for over 50% whole grain, and the taste was absolutely addictive.   I wondered what had got into my starter, so the next day I used the same starter for a Hamelman whole wheat pain au levain.   But while I got back reasonably tasty and pretty loaves, it was back to the mildest of sourness again.  I'm not quite sure what I did to get such a sour bread, and I would like to do it again with a nicer shaped bread.   Was it the overnight counter ferment?   Was it the very high percentage of starter?   I'm mystified.   Any help would be appreciated. -Varda

Hi, I have been keeping a starter going and baking with it around once a week for around 3 months.   I got it started with flour and water (can't remember exactly what flour or percentages of flour and water) but now it is a white whole wheat starter that I keep very stiff in the refrigerator.   When I am going to bake with it, I do the following:  mix 220 grams starter, 100 g water, 100 g white whole wheat, and let it sit for a few hours.   When it starts looking bubbly, add 50 g water and 50 g white whole wheat, and let sit overnight, and use around half of it for baking (for around 2 lb of bread) the next morning.   Then I stiffen it up with flour, and refrigerate until the next bake.   This is not a very scientific approach, I realize.  What I have noticed, is that while this starter raises the heck out of bread, it does not impart a sour flavor.   I haven't particularly been trying to make sour breads, but I am a bit perplexed by this.   I more or less thought that the longer I kept this starter going the more sour it would get but that simply hasn't been the case.  Am I doing everything exactly wrong to get a sour starter?   Thanks!  Varda

I am hoping that today I have finally perfected my sourdough -- we haven't cut into it yet, but it's been a long time a-comin', having experimented with a variety of tips, hints and suggestions in the sourdough forum. Let's assume that my sourdouch has all the right features, crust, crumb and taste, and now I want to make it into a whole grain loaf. Many of the grains that are added to whole grain breads have a sweetness to them that would overwhelm the sour that I've struggled to achieve. I wouldn't mind nutty, but it can't be sweet nutty, it would have to be sour nutty.

What whole grains should I try, and when should they be added? And if I wanted some on the top of the loaf, how are they applied?

I am a newbie at this bread thing, having started with my experiments in the late fall of 2009, so to have come as far as I have is an accomplishment. . . I would just like to take it a step farther.

Thanks!

Peggy

So I've been nailing my sourdough breads from the start. Each one is gorgeous, the texture is spot on. The only problem I have is ...

... it's not sour.It doesn't taste bland, it just tastes ... not sour. At all. Well, sometimes a little, but read on.

I grew my culture straight out of the BBA's formula, on into a barm, which I've refreshed every 2-3 days for a month now. Reading throughout his book over and over, I've done the following to try salvaging the mild flavor:

I read that doubling the barm can make for a stronger sour flavor than tripling/quadrupling it, so I always double the barm.

Textbook barm and sourdough recipe from BBA - mild sour.

Made starter the day after refreshing barm - no change.

Made starter 3 days after refreshing barm - no change.

I read in Reinholdt's grace notes that the lactic acids I'm after prefer a less airated enviroment, so I changed to a stiff barm.

Changed from wet barm to stiff barm, made the next day - no change.

3 days later I made starter from stiff barm right before refreshing barm - no change.

Using the preceding 5 types of barm/time, I also tried slowly fermentating (in the fridge), I tried skipping the starter and just making it directly from the barm, and I tried changing the amount of salt I use, both increasing and decreasing, as I hoped the lactic acids would have a chance to catch up to the wild yeasts. No luck.

25+ loaves later, I've come here for help. On the bright side, I can say I can make, shape, and score sourdough wonderfully with all this practice, and I'm as familiar with the process as I can imagine needing to be. But I still can't get that super sour/tangy sourdough flavor that I'm after.

ANY tips on strengthening that flavor would be welcome.