I'm a 'returning' baker.  I did a short tour of duty at friends' Tassajara-inspired breadshop startup in the early 70's, but hadn't made a loaf since, until my son miracled me Lahey last year.  NKB broke the ice, but didn't cut the mustard for flavor & texture.  So I'm studying Reinhart, Magee, Buehler et al. to up my game.  I have a question that none has answered.  I apologize in advance for how long this post will probably be.

More preface:  I teach university-level botany, including the  physiology and enzymology of the hydrolytic reactions that release stored, polymerized substrates when a cereal seed imbibes water.  Reinhart is warmly inspring in his fascination with enzymes and his  consequent advocacy of pre-ferments.  But there's something about soakers in particular that contradicts botanical dogma.

Imbibition of water by cereal seeds (barley being the longstanding research model here) allows the stored hormone gibberellin to diffuse from the embryo ('germ' in baker-speak) through the endosperm to its outermost aleurone layer where it binds to protein receptors in aleurone cells.  That binding sets in motion a series of biochemical reactions that ultimately result in starch-degrading enzymes being made de novo in, and secreted from, aleurone cells.  Among these enzymes are the amylases familiar to anyone reading this.  Other stored polymers -- proteins, fats, nucleic acids -- are also hydrolyzed by newly syntheized and secreted aleurone enzymes.  So far so good -- Botany 101 cereal seed germination physiology.

As far as I know, these aleurone-synthesized hydrolytic enzymes do not exist in desiccated cereal grains of the sort we mill into bread flour.  They only get made (to be precise, translated de novo from messenger RNAs) in intact seeds that have imbibed water that allowed diffusion of the hormonal signal from the embryo.  This implies that there shouldn't be any amylase enzyme activity in a soaker consisting of flour and milk, soy milk, buttermilk, etc., unless the milk introduces them.  I don't recall any writers claiming that.  So where do soakers' hydrolytic activities come from?  Addition of yeast or diastatic malt changes everything of course.  But I'm talking basic liquid+flour soakers.

On the other hand, if sprouted grains are used in a soaker, and perhaps importantly, if they are gently mashed first, to release these enzymes to better expose the flour's starch to them, then the latter might indeed be acted upon by aleurone enzymes to release simpler sugars (read: flavors) from the flour. (I'm dying to try this)

So why do soakers work?  Starch-hydrolytic enzymes should not be present in them, because the cellular integrity of the seed that is required to initiate their synthesis is destroyed in milling.  Empirically of course, soakers do work.  It isn't the milk: I've used ultrapasteurized (Meijer organic -- good!) milk in my Reinhart soakers with delicious results.  Ultrapasturization oughta nuke any enzymatic activities for sure.  Is my dogmatic view of germination and amylases overly simplistic, ignoring rogue amylases conveniently present in milled grain?  Or are these writers giving enzymes more credit than they're due, ignoring some non-enzymatic, physical process?

Sorry for the verbosity.  Incorrigible.  I have more questions, but they can wait.  Thanks.

What do you do with the fruits of a couple of less than successful attempts at a Dark 100% Rye bread?

Altus!

What is altus you ask?

Old bread …namely, ground up leftover rye bread usually soaked in water.

In my case its old (ugly) dark sour 100% rye bread that is soaked overnight in water. I also crumbled dry altus and fed my rye starter portions of this along with normal rye flour.

Old bread, blended, coffee and soaker

I baked three different breads this weekend, all of them utilising altus. First was the “any grain” sourdough, this time in tins, another dark sour rye and the country bread with two starters.

The night before I prepared soakers, starters, milled and sifted the necessary flours so as to make the morning as peaceful and smooth as possible.

Any Grain Sourdough in tins (grains included in total flour)

Formula

Method

1. Autolyse bakers flour and water for 30min, then stir with wooden spoon for 5 minutes.
2. Add the rest of the ingredients and mix 5-10mins. I use a scraper in my right hand to pick up and turn the dough and keep my left hand wet enough to avoid excessive sticking.
3. Allow bulk ferment for 15-30mins.
4. Shape and roll in rolled oats. Place into greased tins (mine were Pullman) seam side down.
5. I proved these for one hour and 45 minutes before placing into oven with lids on for 15 minutes at 270°C  then a further hour at 200°C

Country bread with two starters

I deviated from the procedure described in a previous posting on these breads in two ways.

The rye starter build was a fed a portion of altus crumbs and the final dough had a 200g altus soaker consisting of equal weights of water and dark rye bread.

The altus soaker was blended with water before adding the flours for the autolyse.

I have again tried my hand at a 100% Sour Dark Rye. I had to alter several things for this bake. I am out of rye grains for milling so for this bake I used Four Leaf Millings biodynamic rye meal flour. I also used the altus as a soaker instead of cracked grains.

Dark Rye Bread Ver 3

Formula

Method

1. Soaker is blended with warm water before the rest of the ingredients are added.
2. Mix until well combined.
3. With wet hands shape and place into greased pullman tin.
4. After my previous cases of overproving I watched the dough like a hawk and it seemed ready after one hour. I docked and placed into a 270°C oven for 15 minutes then a further two hours at 200°C.

__

The altus gave the breads a serious flavour kick and moistness to the crumb. The country bread’s crumb was significantly darker from last weeks bake due to the added altus and it was a delight to see the dark flecks of past rye failures given a new life.

… and again I wait with trepidation for the opportunity to cut the dark rye and peer inside…

cheers, Phil

p.s. A little side story ... My partner managed to create her own version of altus unbeknownst to her when she put a rye crust wrapped in a tea towel through the washing machine. Lets just say with toilet training children in the house a rye crust wasn't the first thing that came to mind when she saw the brown lump amongst the towels.

I've been playing around with Baker's Math, and I believe I've got the idea.  But I do not know to calculate hydration in a formula with a soaker.  I recently made bread which called for a soaker with quite a bit of water in it.  Much, though not all, of the water was soaked up by the soaker grains.  Do I include the amount of soaker water with rest of the water in the formula for purposes of calculating hydration?  This seems to make sense, since this is basically what happens when calculating hydration in a formula with a preferment.  What about the soaker grains?  Do I add their weight to the weight of the flours, since they consumed much of the soaker's water?  I'm just a bit confused.  If this is discussed in a thread elsewhere on The Fresh Loaf, let me know - I've searched but haven't found it yet!  Thanks for any guidance you can give.

I make a 60% rye bread, and I use a buttermilk & rye soaker. Hydration is around 65%; remainder of flour is generic bread flour. I knead in a Kitchenaid for about 7-10 minutes total. I also stretch and fold 2-4 times, depending on how lazy I am. 

The unbaked dough of the last 2 I've made starts to "rip" after I start to fold it. I doubt I could windowpane it. Is that typical? I know rye is low-gluten, but could I be overkneading it? Seems unlikely, but I'm looking forward to feedback.

Thanks!

I am wondering something.

I made Peter Reinharts' whole wheat bread with soaker and biga.  In the soaker, since I didn't have any buttermilk (and my buttermaker died on me - and I didn't have time to make butter by hand) I used some fresh (but older milk).

My bread turned out wonderful!  I was so pleased.

Well, now that I am back to square one with no butter milk, I am wondering how water will fare in a soaker in my bread?

Can anyone share some insight with me?

Becky

We were in Portland, OR last week. While I was in meetings, my wife bounced between Powell's (the biggest book store in the US of A) and the Pearl Bakery. I got to taste a number of their breads in sandwiches my wife brought back to the hotel, but I didn't taste their "multigrain roll," which my wife had one day and really liked.

Susan often asks me to make rolls for her lunch sandwiches, so with her description of the Pearl's roll in mind I went looking for a multigrain roll to make. I've made several of Hamelman's multigrain breads and liked them all. I think any of the ones I've made would make good rolls, but I wanted to try something new. Reading through "Bread," I found the "Whole-Wheat Bread with a Multigrain Soaker." (Pg. 126) It is a 50% bread flour/50% whole wheat dough with a soaker of cracked wheat, coarse corn meal, millet and oats. I had all the ingredients but for the millet. I substituted flax seeds.

This is one heavy dough. I added quite a bit of water, which Hamelman says is often needed, to get the consistency I thought was "right." I formed the 4+ lbs of dough into 2 bâtards and a half dozen 3 oz rolls.

Whole-Wheat Bread with Multigrain Soaker bâtard crumb

I baked the rolls at 450ºF for 15 minutes. The bâtards baked at 450ºF with steam for 12 minutes, then at 440ºF for another 15 minutes followed by 7 minutes in the turned off oven with the door ajar.

The crust was crunchy. The crumb was tender but chewy. The flavor is assertively honey whole wheat, mellowed somewhat by the soaker ingredients. It's outstanding with a thin spread of sweet butter.

My wife liked it but says it's nothing like the Pearl Bakery's multigrain rolls. Hee hee. An excuse to bake more rolls.

David

Submitted to YeastSpotting

Prior to the one-loaf mystery result of my last post, the openest crumb I've gotten from the BBA pain de champagne recipe was a few weeks ago when I modified the recipe to use a dose of the KA levain du jour (dried levain starter), the mild version. I basically made the sponge from this starter as per the instructions that come with it, but made sure the amounts of eveything in the end would total to the same as BBA recipe using the pate fermentee as usual. A second alteration I made was to put most of the rest of the flour (including the whole wheat) into a soaker. The end result was this:

Because I'd changed two different things at once, I wasn't sure if it was the levain or the soaker or both that produced the opener crumb. So I did another batch a few days later with no levain, but with the soaker. The result was the typical crumb I get from this recipe (which has improved a bit over time, as I've pushed the hydration a little, improved my kneading technique, and switched from my somewhat alkaline tap water to bottled water). Interesting thing about this batch though. It had the slight tart tang to it, just as if I had used the levain! I assume that by chance either my pate fementee or my soaker picked up some good beasties...perhaps there were some floating around left over from the levain. Maybe I should start making a point of not cleaning my kneading board!

Somewhere on this site when I first started looking there was a photo of the most wonderful multi-grain bread.  I can't find it and I didn't think to save it at the time.

Can soakers be used in any recipe?  What is the procedure and what exactly do I buy in order to do it?

My every week bread is a standard one consisting of

3-1/2 c bread flour

1/2 c wheat flour

1-1/2 tsp salt

2 cups water

Mix together, sit for 18 hours, fold a little (I'm still working on that part) shape, let rise and bake in cast iron dutch oven, first with lid on and then lid off.  It's a great bread, but I'd like to add some whole grains to it.  I"m just not sure of the technique.

I do have 2 starters to choose from.  One 100% hydration and one about 70% if I need to go that route.

thanks for any and all help

-Susie

Hi everyone

I've had great success with the approach described in Peter Reinhart's Whole Grain Bread book, where the whole wheat flour is mixed into a soaker overnight with no yeast, then combined with the levain the next day.  But I also love the convenience of the no-kneed approach, as I can do all the work the previous day and bake the bread in the morning. I wanted to try to combine the two techniques.

My question to you all is this - have any of you tried making a soaker and levain in the morning, then mixing them together in the evening, leaving to rise overnight then baking the next day?  This would seem to combine the best elements of the soaker strategy, liberating more maltose from the wheat before adding to the dough, and the convenience of the no-kneed.

I am wondering if you would still get the taste advantage of using a soaker if you subsequently leave it to rise overnight, as maybe the levain cultures, when mixed with the soaker, will just use up the sugars from the soaker and you will end up with regular no-knead bread.  Alternatively, maybe leaving the wholemeal dough overnight will achieve the same effect as the soaker, making the creation of a soaker ahead of time unneccesary.

Any input or experience welcomed!

I have been tinkering with PR's Basic Sourdough Bread recipe for a while and have come up with the following recipe, which I really enjoy baking and eating:

 Five-Grain Seeded Sourdough Bread

 (based on Peter Reinhart's Basic Sourdough Bread, The Bread Baker's Apprentice)

Firm Starter

4 oz. sourdough starter

4.5 oz bread flour

1/4 cup lukewarm water

Soaker

2 to 4 oz Bob's Red Mill 5-Grain Cereal

2.2 oz unsalted sunflower seeds (optional)

2.5 oz unsalted pumpkin seeds (optional)

0.2 oz salt (omit if seeds are salted)

3/4 cup boiling water (approx.)

Dough

20.25 ounces bread flour

0.5 ounce salt

Starter

Soaker

1 ½ to 1 ¾ cups lukewarm water

 Directions

          Day 1

1. To make firm starter, remove sourdough starter from refrigerator and allow to warm up for about 1 hour. Combine starter ingredients and knead just long enough to evenly distribute flour and sourdough starter. Spray zipper seal bag lightly with oil. Place firm starter in bag and seal. Allow to double at room temperature, approximately 4 hours. Refrigerate overnight.
2. Place cereal, seeds (if using), and salt in small bowl. Add boiling water to cover. Cover bowl with plastic wrap and allow to sit at room temperature overnight.

Day 2

3. Remove starter from refrigerator 1 hour before making dough. Combine flour and salt in large mixing bowl. Add soaker and mix well. Remove starter from zipper bag, cut or tear into pieces, and add to flour mixture. Using large spoon or your hands, mix in enough water to bring dough together in a ball.
4. Allow dough to autolyse for 30-40 minutes. Turn dough out onto lightly floured surface and knead for 13-16 minutes, until dough passes the windowpane test. Dough should be firm but tacky, like French bread dough. Lightly oil a large bowl. Place dough in bowl, roll to coat with oil, and cover bowl with plastic wrap.
5. Ferment dough at room temperature for 3 to 4 hours or until it nearly doubles. Gently divide dough into two pieces and shape as desired. Mist dough with spray oil, cover loosely with plastic wrap or floured towel, and place in refrigerator.

Day 3

6. Remove loaves from refrigerator 3 to 4 hours before you plan to bake them. Make sure not to overproof. When the imprint of a finger poked gently into dough springs back slowly, the dough is ready to bake.
7. Preheat oven to 500 degrees F for 45 minutes to 1 hour with baking stone and steam pan in place. Slash loaves and transfer carefully to baking stone. Immediately pour 3/4 cup hot water into steam pan. Close oven and lower temperature to 450 degrees F. Bake for 10 minutes, then rotate loaves to ensure even baking. Continue to bake for 10 to 20 minutes, until the loaves register 200 to 205 degrees F in the center.
8. Cool for 45 minutes before slicing.

 Note: If you want to make the bread in 2 days instead of 3, after dividing, shaping, and misting the dough in step 5, cover the loaves and allow to proof at room temperature for 2 to 3 hours, then bake as directed.