rye sour

I have been doing multiple bakes with home-milled sifted flour and it's nothing if not a learning experience.    My initial attempt at tempering was a fiasco.   All I could think of when I heard the word tempering was that somehow the wheat berries must be heated to very high temperatures to strengthen them.   Only a few seconds of thought though, is all it takes to realize that that is ridiculous.   But I was still surprised to learn that tempering when it comes to wheat means letting it absorb enough water to achieve a small measure of malting, and reach a desirable level of moisture.   

Easier said than done.   I tried heating a sample of berries at low temperature for several hours to see what their moisture content was.   See the strategy described by Michael here.  Then I added the requisite amount of water to the berries I intended to bake with and stored in a closed container for 2 days while the berries absorbed the moisture, shaking the container whenever I passed by.    I knew that I needed to be careful not to use overly moist berries in my Komo mill.    Fortunately the owners manual gives a handy rule of thumb.   Smash a berry with a spoon on the counter.   If it cracks with a nice snap, it's dry enough.   If it just kind of smashes, it's too wet.   Unfortunately after it seemed that the berries were dry, they smashed.   I had to dry them out for a whole day to get them to crack again.    When they got back into a crackable state, they had lost all the water weight that I'd put into them.   Furthermore the bread I made with these tempered and redried berries was flavorless.   

So presumably my berries are moist enough as it is, and don't need water added.   This still leaves the question of whether I'll get good enough bran separation during milling without going through the tempering step.    But for now at least I've put tempering on hold.  

For my next few bakes, I tried a milling and sifting approach as follows.   Mill berries coarsely.   Sift.   (I used a roughly #24 strainer - that is 24 holes per inch.)   Remill what is caught by the sifter at medium coarse, and sift again.   Remill the leavings again at medium fine and sift again.   Remill the leavings again at fine and sift again.   Stop.   The flour and bran in the picture above resulted from this approach.   While the bread I baked with this approach was a lot tastier than the one with the mis-tempered flour, I still felt that a lot was left to be desired.   

Today, I went out and got more sifting ammunition.   A roughly #30 strainer, and a roughly #40 splatter screen.    I also changed my approach to milling and sifting.    In addition to remilling the leavings and resifting, I decided to progressively sift the flour.     So I milled the berries at medium, then sifted in the #24 strainer and set aside the leavings.    Then sifted the flour in the #30 strainer and set aside the leavings.   Then sifted the flour in the #40 strainer and mixed all the leavings from the three sifts together and remilled at medium.   Then went through the 3 siftings again of the remilled material and added to the flour.  

The flour I got from this process was lighter and silkier than the other approach.    The bad news is that I started with 350g of berries and got only 170g of flour, a less than 50% extraction rate.    That meant that to get a full bake, I had to add a lot of other flour, which I did.     So the flour from the Upinngil wheat berries ended up at a quarter of total flour.    To throw yet another wild card into the bake, I hadn't prepared starter in advance, but I had some leftover rye starter from a bake a few days ago in the refrigerator, and I decided to use as is.   However, not knowing how potent it was I threw in some instant yeast.   

Of course any bread I got out of this was just in the interests of science (aka hacking around with milling and sifting.)   And here is what I got.   Mild and pleasant, but just another step along the way toward something or other.  

Addendum:   Andy's recent post about bolted wheat flour from an operating watermill, led me straight to google to look up bolting.   Well bolting is sifting, but it has an interesting history as I found in this article -  http://www.angelfire.com/journal/millbuilder/boulting.html   There is a lot of interesting stuff in this article but one of the things that struck me is that much of sifting has been done with cloth rather than a wire mesh.    Which leads me to wonder if that would be a good strategy for the home miller.   Would a nylon or silk stocking work?    Has anyone tried it?   

Over the last few days I've been working on another Borodinsky.   I made some new rye malt, then refreshed rye sour, and scald flavored with the malt, molasses, and not quite as potent ground coriander as my last try.   I followed Andy's Feb 6 Borodinsky post, with the exception of some different timing and a little less coriander.   I cut into the loaf this morning, and felt, that maybe, just maybe I had made something close to a real Borodinsky loaf.  

Gave some to my son for breakfast - he ate it without any topping and without any complaint.   Then cut up some slices and took them to a morning meeting.   Since the people at the meeting were civilians (i.e., don't lie awake at night thinking about how to make such and such authentic Russian bread using the Auerman process) I thought they might not like it, and warned them it was very rye-y and coriandery and so forth.   But everyone ate it and most people seemed to genuinely enjoy it.    One woman mentioned that she thought it would be heavy and dense since it was mostly rye.   But it wasn't - instead very light in a rye sort of way.   

My only complaint is that the bread didn't quite hit the top of the pan, even though I thought I had the scaling (.69 of Andy's bake) perfect.   The bread obviously had some ovenspring, but rather than smoothly expanding to fill the inside of the pan, it seemed to rise as if it was uncovered and then cracked along the top.

I tried to get a very uniform paste in the pan by putting some in with a spoon and then smoothing and flattening it with a wet rubber spatula.  

My rye malt was much more successful this time.    I read through all the links people sent me - thank you.    I took Juergen's advice to raise the temperature while toasting the sprouting berries.    The color was much darker this time but I would call it ginger rather than red.    But I did get a much more powdery consistency when I ground the berries after toasting.   The potency this time around was much stronger, and I was a little afraid that I had burned it, since it had a very powerful aroma.   In retrospect I think it was fine.

Compare this with last time:

I also found what I thought was a very interesting discussion about making rye malt here.   See in particular Ron's comments in this thread.  

Baking Notes:

I always wait to use liquid rye sour until it is frothy on top.   In this case, I fed the sour in the afternoon.   Then again at night around six hours later.   Then left it overnight.   Ten hours later, it was frothy, so I combined it with the scald (made at the same time as the second sour feed) to make the sponge.   Then let ferment for 4 hours, per Andy's instructions.    I added final ingredients (rye flour, wheat flour, and salt)   and fermented for an hour.   Then spread into the pan (9 inch Pullman.)   Then proofed for only 1.5 hours rather than 3.   I used a wet finger to poke and test for elasticity, and just felt it was done earlier than expected.   Andy specifies a long bake at very low temperature with a very high temp start.   That didn't work with my schedule.   Instead I did the following.   Preheated oven to its highest temperature - 550F - for 40 minutes.   20 minutes into the preheat, I added a big pyrex lasagna pan full of water and with three towels in it.   At 40 minutes I added the loaf, and let the temperature come back up to 550F.    Then reduced heat to 350F.   At 1 hour 15 minutes into the bake, I removed the loaf from the pan, and removed the steam pan, and baked for 30 more minutes.    This time I managed to wait for around 20 hours before cutting.  

As for coriander, the first time I made this, I put in a very small amount of coriander that had been ground months before.    I think I underdid it.   Then second time, I put in freshly ground coriander at a little less than what Andy had specified.   The smell of the sponge with the coriander was overpowering to the point of being unpleasant and things didn't get any better with the bread, which failed for other reasons.   This time I scaled Andy's formula to .69 which would have called for 7g of coriander.   Instead I put in 5g of my supply of coriander which had been ground awhile ago.    This worked.   The flavor was fantastic and not overpowering.   Note that in Andy's Feb 6 post, he didn't put in the coriander until final, whereas in earlier posts, he put in with the scald.   Either way seems to be ok.  

I'm happy with this latest effort.   Thanks so much to Andy for his detailed and repeated posts on the subject.  

Today was another snowday, so I again canceled a variety of plans to stay home with my son.   Amazing how nicely baking bread fits into that routine.   I had already planned to bake, but had no idea how I was going to fit it in, since I always manage to be out of the house at the exact moment that some essential step has to happen.   No such worries today.   I made Hamelman's 5 grain sourdough for the first time, as well as yet another iteration on my own elusive sourdough.  Actually I made Hamelman's 5 minus 1 plus replacements sourdough.  Since I don't like sunflower seeds, I upped the flax seeds and oats.  I don't have cracked rye (or know what it is) and had just bought a tiny bag of wheat berries, having no idea what to do with them, so I threw them into a coffee grinder and gave them a whirl, and voila - cracked something.   The resulting bread is just awesomely tasty.   Only after I tasted it did I run to this site and search, and see how them as come before me have raved about it.   Absolutely delicious, and compared to what I've been trying to make lately, like a walk in the park.   What other jewels is Hamelman hiding up his sleeve?   Not that he has any duds as far as I can tell.  But some are better than others, and this is just amazing.  

and rye and white sourdoughs side by side:

Hey all,

Just wanted to share with you this bake from 9/23/10.  It is a Tourte Auvergnate inspired by the recipe in Le pain, l'envers du décor by Frédéric Lalos.  His version is basically 80% rye, and the rest in white flour, which is made into a stiff levain.  I decided to make mine with 75% rye flour, and 25% AP flour.  I made the AP flour into a stiff levain, and then with some of the rye flour, I made a rye sour.  Here's the formula, process, and pictures.  Enjoy!

Overall Formula

750g Whole Rye Flour

250g AP

720g Water

18g Kosher Salt

1738g Total Dough Yield (approx)

Stiff Levain

250g AP

150g Water

50g Storage Sourdough Starter at 100% hydration

450g Total Stiff Levain

Rye Sour

150g Rye Flour

150g Water

8g Storage Sourdough Starter at 100% hydration

308g Rye Sour Total

Final Dough

600g Rye Flour

420g Water

18g Kosher Salt

450g Stiff Levain

308g Rye Sour

1796g Total Dough Yield Approx

Process:

9/22/10

6:30pm - Mix rye sour and stiff levain, cover and let rest on counter.

7:00pm - Put stiff levain into refrigerator.

9/23/10

9:00pm - Weigh out all ingredients, and place into large mixing bowl in the following order, water, levain, rye sour, rye flour, salt.

9:15pm - Mix for 5 minutes starting with a rubber spatula and switching to wet hands as the dough gets harder to stir.

Switch to wet hands and knead dough.

9:20pm - After mixing and kneading, cover and let bulk ferment for 1:30...

10:50pm - Dough after bulk ferment.  Notice the poke in the top part.

10:55pm - Divide and shape.  I made 3 relatively equal size boules.

Place in floured bannetons seam side down.

Cover and let proof for 1 hour.  Place 2 baking stone/stones in oven with steam pan filled with lava rocks and water.  Preheat to 550F with convection.

11:55pm - Turn off convection. Turn boules on to floured peel/flipping board and place in oven directly on stone.  When last one is in, pour 1 more cup of water into steam pan, close door and turn oven down to 500F no convection.  Bake for 10 minutes at 500F.

9/23/10

12:05am - Take out steam pan, turn oven down to 420F.  Bake for 20 minutes.

12:25am - Rotate loaves around, or between stones.  I am baking on 2 stones, starting them off on the bottom, transfering them to the top.  Bake for another 20 minutes.

12:45am - Take one loaf out to check weight and internal temp.  Should be at least 15% lighter than prebaked weight, and internal temp should be about 210F.  Turn oven off, and leave loaves in for another 10 minutes.

12:55pm - Take loaves out and let cool at least 24hrs before cutting and eating to let the crumb stabilize and dry out a little.

8:00am - I was a little impatient so I cut into one so I could see the crumb...  Slightly gummy as I had expected, but after a little toasting and butter, it was all good...  Enjoy!

Tim

Saturday using Rye Sour excess from an earlier baking--3 or 4 days ago--I built more Rye sour, flollowing Greenstein's Secrets of a Jewish Baker; I did stage 3 feeding late Saturday evening, and refrigerated the refreshed sour intending an early Sunday morning bake.

Sunday; early AM: I let the sour come to room temperature (it had nearly doubled overnight, and risen more in the 1 hour warmup. I'd measured 25 oz. of Rye Sour into my hand-mixing bowl, and put the remaining cup of sour in the refrigerator, for another day. I'd previously weighed out the dough's First Clear flour, salt, and yeast.  I was about to pour the dough's water addition into the sour when the phone rang. Five minutes later I was out the door, heading for a local carriage driving show; it's organizer had called and asked my assistance. I couldn't say no. I spent five minutes covering the Rye Sour with plastic wrap, and putting it back in the refrigerator. The rest of the mise en place was left where it sat.

I came home late afternoon, sunburned of face, dusty, weary, and pleased with the day's work. However, I was in no mood to bake bread.

Monday (today) I picked up where I left off. Mixed the dough, and baked two loaves.

Minor differences: obviously the extra twenty-four hours retarding the sour; I restored the salt to the original recipe (I'd reduced it slightly when I made it the first time.), and I made the starch glaze with arrowroot starch instead of corn starch. I use arrowroot starch in lieu of corn startch in most cooking recipes. I find its silkier consistency more to my liking.

The first time I baked Jewish Rye, I had a couple of crust blowouts: unwanted blowouts. (see

I got some good suggestions from other TFLer's, on how to prevent them. I incorporated all (or most) of their suggestions processsing this dough. I scored deeper, and (my idea; a variant of another's suggestion to make them longitudinal) I angled the slashes slightly from being square with the loaves' long axes; and I final proofed until I was certain any further would be over-proofed.

Here's the results, no Grand Canyon bursts!

I am, of course, delighted with the result. I'm certain the crumb will be consistent with the first bake. Thanks again to all those who helped me avoid unwanted crust bursts with this bake--and, hopefully future ones.

There is only one small doubt in my head: did the unplanned retardation influence the absence of unwanted cracking? D**m, I'll just have to bake this formula again, and eliminate the extra 24 hours. Tough, but somebody's got to do it.

David G