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A Community of Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts.

rye

jarkkolaine's picture
jarkkolaine

For about two months, I had had my sourdough starter sitting on the kitchen counter covered with a kitchen towel. Last week, when I finally found time to look at it again, it looked like a dry cracker cookie. 

I had no idea if I could still restore the starter or not, but I decided to give it a try.

I added some water to dilute the dried starter. When most of the starter had turned into a milk-like fluid, I removed the remaining pieces of dry dough and added just enough flour to get it back to the normal consistency of my starter (at 100% hydration, 50/50 full grain and all purpose flour). I then left the starter on the kitchen counter and waited. The next morning, the starter was full of life!

Just look at this before and after photo:

After a couple of days of daily feeding cycles, I finally had the time to try to bake something with the starter.

--

About two weeks ago, I visited Viipurilainen kotileipomo, a family run bakery in Lahti, about 100 kilometers from Vantaa where I live to meet with the bakers and see how they work on their full-grain rye bread (among other things). The four baking brothers I met that night where some of the friendliest people I have ever met, and their rye "limppu" is delicious! So, inspired by seeing them at work, although I didn't ask for their recipe, I decided to try my luck with creating my own version of this Finnish tradition called "ruislimppu." 

At about the same time as I started reviving my old wheat starter, I created a 100% rye starter by mixing a handful of dark rye flour and some water. I didn't write down the exact measurements but it resulted in a rather wet and sticky dough to start with. I fed the starter daily, slowly increasing the mass of the dough, until it felt really sour and light. Ready for use. That was the night before the bake. Last week's Saturday. 

On that night, I made the rye "limppu" dough by mixing the starter with about 1.5 kilograms of rye flour and 1 kilograms of water. As I don't know the amount of flour and water in the starter, I can't give exact figures. I will try to be more exact the next time I make this bread... I didn't knead the dough at this point, just mixed the ingredients to a consistent mass. 

On Sunday morning, I mixed in the salt and did a very brief kneading for the dough. The dough was quite wet and it was practically impossible to knead, so I didn't spend much time on it. At the same time, I also prepared a batch of my favorite dough for two loaves of Basic Country Bread from Tartine Bread. 

I was baking for most of the day, and here are the results. I'm pretty happy with them: even the rye limppu tastes right. The rye loaves could be a bit lighter (it's definitely denser and flatter than the one from Viipurilainen kotileipomo), but that's not necessarily a requirement: most of the time they look just like this when you buy them from Finnish grocery stores: dense and dark, but full of flavor (especially with a thick layer of real, creamy butter on top!).

Basic Country Bread:

 

Rye Limppu:

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

This bake was meant to be a one day bread from start to finish that was still a tasty multi grain bread with soft white wheat, spelt, rye, WW, WWW and AP flours, 2 levains SD and YW, a WW berry scald, some fennel, anise and pumpkin seeds with ¼ tsp of ground cumin.  It has a 4 hour autolyse while the levains are being built, a short 1 hr fermentation and then final proof in a floured basket that took almost 3 hours.  It was a lovely looking bread since I didn't use a cloth for this basket.  The crust is crunchy crisp and nicely browned but we will have to wait for it to cool to see how these 2 quick levains worked together.

The crumb came out moderately open, very moist due to the YW.  The taste and texture was very nice with the pumpkin seeds and WW scald.  The normal 3 day developed SD tang was not there but just a hint of sour to go along with the light anise, fennel and cumin taste.  Ummm.... the smell was devine.  Very nice bread overall.  Had it for breakfast toast this morning - great with butter and apple ginger jam on another slice.

Formula and method after the pix's.

Soft White Wheat, Spelt, Seeded SD YW Bread

 The SD and YW levains were built over 2 stages of 2 hours each.  During this 4 hour period the flour’s, cumin, malts, VWG and water were autolysed in the mixing bowl.  The WW berries were also scalded and reserved on the counter to soak for 4 hours until needed.

 At the 4 hour mark all of the ingredients were incorporated in the mixing bowl with the exception of the seeds and scald.  The dough was mixed for 9 minutes on KA 2 .  Then the remainder of the ingredients were added  and mixed on KA 2 for 1 minute.

The dough was placed into a plastic covered oiled bowl to rest for 15 minutes.  4 S&F’s were performed at 15 minute intervals on a floured work surface with the dough returned to the covered oiled bowl in between each S&F.

 Let rest for 1 hour then form into a boule and place in a floured basket to proof in a plastic bag for 2-3 hours until it doubles.

 Preheat oven at 500 F for 45 minutes with stone steam in place.  Overturn basket onto parchment on a peel.  Slash as desired and slide bread into the oven.  After 4 minutes turn down to450 F.  After 12 more minutes, remove steam and turn down oven to 425 F convection this time.  Turn boule 90 degrees every 5 minutes and  bake until temperature in the middle of the bread is 205 F.  Turn off oven and crack the door to allow the crust to crisp for 12 more minutes.  Remove bread from the oven and let cool on a wire rack.

Soft White Wheat, Spelt, Seeded SD YW Bread    
     
SD Starter     Build 1    Build 2    Total      %
SD Starter200204.26%
Rye200204.26%
WWW200204.26%
AP025255.32%
Water40105010.64%
Total1003513528.72%
     
YW Starter    Build 1   Build 2    Total      %
Yst Water400408.51%
Soft White400408.51%
AP 025255.32%
Water010102.13%
Total803511524.47%
     
Starters        %  
Flour14029.79%  
Water11023.40%  
Hydration78.57%0.00%  
Levain % of Total 25.64%  
     
Dough Flour         %  
Soft White Wheat7515.96%  
Spelt255.32%  
White WW306.38%  
Bread Flour10021.28%  
AP10021.28%  
Dough Flour33070.21%  
Salt71.49%  
Water23550.00%  
Dough Hydration71.21%   
     
Add - Ins    
1/4 tsp Cumin        %  
Honey71.49%  
Mashed Potato6814.47%  
Red Rye Malt20.43%  
White Rye Malt30.64%  
VW Gluten51.06%  
Pepitas357.45%  
3-Anise/ 5-Fennel81.70%  
Total12827.23%  
     
Scald       %  
Spelt255.32%  
     
Total Flour470   
Total Water345   
T. Dough Hydrat.73.40%   
     
Hydration w/ Adds79.69%   
Total Weight975  

 

 

Steve H's picture

WGB - 68% Rye Hearth Bread

April 22, 2012 - 12:34pm -- Steve H
Forums: 

I just got done making Reinhart's 68% Rye Hearth Bread, and I wanted to ask if anyone else has tried this and whether they had similar results. The bread is pretty dense, and has a great flavor. However, the description of the dough is very different from what he describes in his book, and I am wondering if I am doing something wrong:

dirider's picture
dirider

No Knead Rye

2012-04-17 I mixed a batch of No Knead Rye at 2030 hrs with flours amounts as indicated (organic AP & RM dark rye), 200 water, 222 Kona Golden Ale, 137g wild yeast (orange juice starter, first use) in place of the ½ tsp yeast called out in the recipe, and 1 heaping Tblspn caraway.

Next morning, 0615 hrs, its bloomed quite nicely (2 ½ times)! Hmm…

So, I did several stretch and folds with a big bowl scraper and turned the dough out into an oil sprayed white French ceramic baker, covered with shower cap and let it proof while I went to work. Returning home at 1730 hrs, I found a big growth, drooping over the edges of the baker! I carefully removed the shower cap releasing the dough gently and preheated the oven to 400deg. Baked 45 min, slashing top after 10, no cover. Removed from oven and turned out onto rack, egg washed and let cool. No oven spring, but that’s probably due to over proofing. Going to work gets in the way of my baking! LOL

Pics are a bit gold in hue. Camera setting?

  

Couldn’t wait much longer for a taste. After a 20 minute cool, I sliced. Oh la la, so good. Mr. Stanley asked if I had any brisket for a sandwich (corned beef).

dirider's picture
dirider

I've been fooling around with the No Knead Method, first following the classic procedure to good result. In the past 2 weeks, I've baked a loaf with my wild yeast starter. Week One, I followed the traditional bake in covered heavy cooker. Today, I ventured out and did the second proof in an oil sprayed glass loaf pan. I like the way it turned out.

2012-04-14 1300hrs-Started a proof with 140g of my wild yeast, 198g hi gluten flour (bin stock), 100g AP (KAF), 58g semolina (Red Mill), 6oz Blue Moon, 4oz Crystal Geyser, 1 tsp sea salt.

Overnight proof until 0830 hrs next morning, then several gentle stretch and fold with silicone bowlscraper and into a oiled loaf pan. I sprinkled with poppy seeds, then covered and proofed until 1445hrs.

Into a preheated 375deg gas convection for 35 minutes, turning halfway through.

    

 

 It's good! I will add about 30g more AP on the next loaf for a little stiffer dough which I hope will produce a rounder loaf top. This dough was quite soft and (during proof) wanted to wrap around the pan edges. The flavour is quite nice. I have a good sour starter. I am pleased with the result.

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

I have been wanting to do some whole rye and whole wheat SD baguettes that has at least 20% whole grains.  I wasn't going for holes but for taste.  The starter was a Rye and WW one as well.   I also told teketeke that I would try her baguettes she makes with YW and I am becoming a real YW convert  Since her baggies are YW using white flours, this doesn't qualify for doing hers yet but I didn't want her to think I had forgotten. The SD is nice and sour and YW is not.  Both have the same moist crumbthat is fairly open for so much whole flours.   I am OK with the slashing and know it could have been worse. :-)  The YW did spring slightly more.

Below left is SD and Right is YW.

Slash of SD below

Slash on the YW

Crumb shots follow SD top adn YW bottom

Close ups YW first

SD below

Below SD is on top

Method was the same for both.  Levain build in 3 stages over 12 hours and then retarded in the refrigerator overnight.  The next morning the levains were allowed to sit out on the counter for 1 hour to warm up.  The entire levain was placed in the mixer with half of the flour, 75% of the water and the rye malt.  This is mixed on KA 4 with the wisk for 4 minutes.  Then it autolysed for 30 minutes covered.

The rest of the flour and water is added and the dough hook goes on to knead for 4 minutes on KA 3.  Then the salt goes in and you knead on KA 3 for 2 more minutes.  The dough goes into a covered and oiled bowl to rest.  5 S& F's are done on an oiled counter 4 times every 15 minutes.  The the dough is formed into a ball and sits in the covered oiled bowl on the counter for an hour and half before going into the fridge for 22 hours. 

The next morning the dough sits on the counter for 1 1/2 hours to warm up and then is shaped, placed in a floured couche and then into a plastic bag for final proofing.  Mine took 3 hours. 

Preheat at 500 F regular bake with stone and steam in place.  Slash the baguettes and put into the oven to steam for 8 minutes.  Remove steam, turn down to 450 F convection and bake for another 8 min or so until done.  Here are the formulas.

YW Baggies  - All numbers in grams          
              
SD Starter     Dough Flour % Multigrain Sprouts%
 Build 1B 2 B 3Total% Rye303.89% Buckwheat 0.00%
SD Starter   00.00% WW303.89% WW 0.00%
Rye   00.00% Buckwheat 0.00% Rye 0.00%
WW   00.00% Spelt 0.00% Bulgar 0.00%
Buckwheat   00.00% Farro 0.00% Barley 0.00%
Dark Rye   00.00% Barley 0.00% Spelt 0.00%
WWW   00.00% 6 Grain Cereal 0.00% Water 0.00%
Bread Flour   00.00% Millet 0.00% Total Sprouts00.00%
AP   00.00% Amranth 0.00%    
Water   00.00% Lentils 0.00% Scald  
Total00000.00% Dark Rye 0.00% Buckwheat 0.00%
       Semolina 0.00% WW 0.00%
YW Starter     Bulgar 0.00% Rye 0.00%
 Build 1B 2 B 3Total% Oats 0.00% Bulgar 0.00%
Yst Water60301010012.95% White WW 0.00% Barley 0.00%
Rye   00.00% Potato Flakes50.65% Spelt 0.00%
WW   00.00% Ground Flax Seed 0.00% Water 0.00%
Buckwheat   00.00% Bread Flour 0.00% Total Scald00.00%
Dark Rye   00.00% AP25032.38%    
WWW   00.00% Dough Flour31540.80% Add - Ins  
Bread Flour   00.00% Salt70.91% Barley Malt 0.00%
AP60303012015.54% 50% Water/ Whey21527.85% Molasses 0.00%
Water   00.00% Dough Hydration68.25%  Honey 0.00%
Total120604022028.50%     Olive Oil 0.00%
       Total Flour435  Egg 0.00%
Total Starters     Total Water315  Red Rye Malt 0.00%
  %  0.1724 T. Dough Hydrat.72.41%  White Rye Malt151.94%
Flour12015.54%        VW Gluten 0.00%
Water10012.95%    Hydration w/ Adds70.00%  Sunflower Seeds 0.00%
Hydration83.33%     Total Weight772  Nuts00.00%
Levain % of Total28.50%        Total151.94%

 

SD Baggies  - All numbers in grams

          
              
SD Starter     Dough Flour % Multigrain Sprouts%
 Build 1Build 2 Build 3Total% Rye303.65% Buckwheat 0.00%
SD Starter20  202.43% WW 0.00% WW 0.00%
Rye  10101.22% Buckwheat 0.00% Rye 0.00%
WW 10 101.22% Spelt 0.00% Bulgar 0.00%
Buckwheat   00.00% Farro 0.00% Barley 0.00%
Dark Rye   00.00% Barley 0.00% Spelt 0.00%
WWW   00.00% 6 Grain Cereal 0.00% Water 0.00%
Bread Flour   00.00% Millet 0.00% Total Sprouts00.00%
AP80202012014.60% Amranth 0.00%    
Water60302011013.38% Lentils 0.00% Scald  
Total160605027032.85% Dark Rye 0.00% Buckwheat 0.00%
       Semolina 0.00% WW 0.00%
YW Starter     Bulgar 0.00% Rye 0.00%
 Build 1Build 2 Build 3Total% Oats 0.00% Bulgar 0.00%
Yst Water   00.00% White WW303.65% Barley 0.00%
Rye   00.00% Potato Flakes50.61% Spelt 0.00%
WW   00.00% Ground Flax Seed 0.00% Water 0.00%
Buckwheat   00.00% Bread Flour 0.00% Total Scald00.00%
Dark Rye   00.00% AP25030.41%    
WWW   00.00% Dough Flour31538.32% Add - Ins  
Bread Flour   00.00% Salt70.85% Barley Malt 0.00%
AP   00.00% 50% Water/ Whey21526.16% Molasses 0.00%
Water   00.00% Dough Hydration68.25%  Honey 0.00%
Total00000.00%     Olive Oil 0.00%
       Total Flour465  Egg 0.00%
Total Starters     Total Water335  Red Rye Malt 0.00%
  %  0.2043 T. Dough Hydrat.72.04%  White Rye Malt151.82%
Flour15018.25%        VW Gluten 0.00%
Water12014.60%    Hydration w/ Adds69.79%  Sunflower Seeds 0.00%
Hydration80.00%     Total Weight822  Nuts00.00%
Levain % of Total32.85%        Total15

1.82

varda's picture
varda

Lately I have been trying to make a passably authentic Russian Borodinsky Rye.    Fortunately Russian bakers are very generous.    Eliabel referred my last Borodinsky post to two Russian bread bloggers - Serghei and Masha.    They gave her some feedback which she very kindly translated for me.   I've tried to incorporate their advice into my latest bake.   A sticking point for those of us who would like to make authentic Borodinsky is the malt.   The original requires a fermented rye malt called red malt.    As far as I can tell this is not available in the United States.   Furthermore the process for making it is not well adapted to a home kitchen.   See for instance the discussion on dabrownman's post.   However, there are excellent rye malts available.    I was able to purchase three different malts at a brewing supply store in Cambridge, Massachusetts:   caramel, chocolate, and simple malted rye.    The chocolate and caramel are malted seeds which are then roasted to the desired color and flavor.    For the simple malted rye, the seeds are sprouted and then dried in a kiln.  

The advice I got through Eliabel was pretty straightforward.  

1.   Kvas is not a sufficiently concentrated source of rye malt for Borodinsky

2.   Molasses should go in the final dough rather than in the scald

3.  Eliabel also quoted a new book on Rye Zavarka breads which says that the red malt process retains some of the diastatic enzymes of the malt.  

For this bake I used the chocolate malted rye in the scald, and then added some of the simple rye malt to the final dough.   I also added the molasses to the final paste rather than the scald. 

Since in earlier Borodinsky attempts both Masha and Eliabel had mentioned there should be no cracking of the top, I modified a few things to see if I could avoid it.   First, I went way up on the hydration to 98%.   Second I took Howard's advice to dock the top, and Minioven's advice to take a spatula and separate the top of the loaf from the side of the pan prior to proofing.    This is the first of many attempts in which the top did not crack.    Otherwise I followed the three stage Auerman process as detailed by Andy.    I was again unable to cover the pan during the bake because I had added so much more water that the dough was too high.   It just ended up doming slightly.  

I cut in and tasted today after a 20 hour rest.

Since the chocolate malted rye had such a strong flavor, I should probably have used a bit more freshly ground coriander than I did.    I had cut back because my malt in previous attempts wasn't strong enough to balance the coriander flavor.   Other than that, I was pretty happy with the result.

Update:   Oh, one more thing I would change.   The scald was a little dry without the molasses and so hard to mix in with the rye sour.   Next time, instead of adding the extra 50g of water to the final dough, I would add more water to the scald.   

Borodinsky with Chocolate Rye Malt

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Rye Sour

 

5:15 PM

9:00 PM

 

 

Seed

60

 

 

 

 

Whole Rye

32

75

140

247

 

Water

28

135

250

413

167%

 

 

 

 

660

 

Scald

 

 

 

 

 

Whole Rye

104

 

 

 

 

Chocolate Malted Rye

36

 

 

 

 

Boiling Water

249

adjusted for evaporation

 

Ground coriander

4

 

 

 

 

 

393

 

 

 

 

Sponge

 

 

 

 

 

Rye Sour

552

 

 

 

 

Scald

393

 

 

 

 

 

945

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Total

Final

Sour

Scald

Total

Percent

Whole Rye

207

207

104

517

79%

KABF

138

 

 

138

21%

Water

50

345

249

644

98%

Molasses

41

 

 

41

6%

Chocolate Malted Rye

 

 

36

36

5%

Malted Rye

9

 

 

9

1.4%

Salt

10

 

 

10

1.5%

Ground coriander

 

 

4

4

0.6%

Sponge

945

 

 

 

 

 

 

552

393

1400

 

Sour factor

0.84

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Feed starter as above

 

 

 

 

 

At second feeding, make the scald

 

 

 

Leave overnight (12 hours.)  Sour is frothy

 

 

 

Mix scald and starter

 

 

 

 

 

Ferment for 5.5 hours

 

 

 

 

 

Add final ingredients - mix by hand until blended

 

 

Ferment for 1 hour

 

 

 

 

 

Note that paste was very fluffy and aerated at this point

 

 

Spoon into greased bread pan.   Smooth down with wet spatula.

 

Spray top with water and do so at intervals

 

 

 

Cover

 

 

 

 

 

Proof for 1 hour 55 minutes

 

 

 

 

Very bubbly and starting to get holey on top

 

 

 

Oven preheated to 550 for 1 hour - steam pan for last 30 minutes of preheat

Put bread in oven and bring temperature back to 550

 

 

Then reduce to 350

 

 

 

 

 

Bake for 1 hour 15 min covered with foil after first 15 minutes

 

 

 

then remove steam pan, remove bread from pan and bake for 30 minutes

 

breadbakingbassplayer's picture
breadbakingbass...


Hey All,

Long time no post here on TFL.  I have been working a little too much these days to post, how ever I have been baking about once a week.  I have been baking very whole grain breads with rye lately, and had some grains in the freezer that I wanted to bake with…  So here's what I came up with….  

For flours, I am using Whole Foods Market 365 Organic AP and whole wheat flours, and Arrowhead Mills Organic Stoneground Rye Flour.  The OG rye and spelt berries are from Fairway Market in NYC, the OG flax seeds and wheat germ are from a little organic market.  The water is NYC tap water.  

I also have a Porkert hand crank grain mill that I got at Lehman's…  It is the same one that Gerard Rubaud uses.  Sadly Lehman's called me a while a go and said Porkert went out of business…  Also, I mix everything by hand in a large stainless steel mixing bowl, using a rubber spatula, plastic scraper, and wet hands.  Everything is pretty low tech except for using a digital scale to weigh out the ingredients...

Here is the recipe and process below:

Rye/Spelt Soaker
250g - Organic spelt berries
250g - Organic rye berries
500g - Water
1000g - Total

Flax Seed Soaker
50g - Organic flax seeds
50g - Organic golden flax seeds
250g - Water
350g - Total

4/8/12
10:00pm - Weigh out spelt and spelt berries.  Coarsely grind using grain mill.  Mix with water, place in covered container and refrigerate.  

Mix flax seed soaker, place in covered container.  Refrigerate.

Biga
100g - Organic whole wheat flour
50g - Organic rye flour
100g - Organic AP flour
160g - Water
Pinch - IDY
410g - Total

12:00am - Mix biga, place in lightly oiled covered container, refrigerate. (I used organic flax seed oil to oil the container)

4/9/12
9:30am - Take biga out of refrigerator, place on counter at room temp.

Final Dough
350g  - Organic AP flour
25g - Organic wheat germ
20-22g - Fine sea salt
1000g - Spelt/rye soaker
350g - Flax seed soaker
410g - Biga
1 - Tbsp - Malt Flour
2157g - Total

4/9/12
10:00pm - In a large mixing bowl, combine the spelt/rye soaker, flax seed soaker, AP flour, and wheat germ.  Mix with wooden spoon until well combined, place into lightly oiled container, cover and let rest.

10:30pm - Cut up biga into pieces, mix into final dough using wet hands until well combined, cover and let rest.

11:15pm - Knead in salt with wet hands until well combined, cover and let rest.

12:30am - Scrape dough out of container on to well floured surface, shape into boule, place into well floured linen lined banneton/basket, cover with tea towel, place into plastic bag and let proof overnight.

6:00am - Place baking stone into oven on middle rack along with steam pan filled with water and lava rocks, pre-heat oven to 500F with convection if you have it.  Be sure to  place an oven thermometer on the baking stone so you can tell how hot the stone is.

6:30am - Turn off convection.  Turn boule out onto lightly floured peel, brush off excess flour, dock dough with bamboo skewer or Japanese style chopstick, place boule into oven directly on stone and bake at 500F with steam for 15 minutes.  After, remove steam pan and turn oven down to 425F and bake for another 60 minutes.  Turn off oven and leave loaf in for another 10-15 minutes.  When finished baking, internal temp should be approx 210F and weight should be about 15% less than before baking.  Cool and rest for about 12 hrs before cutting.

Top

Crumb

Close-up

Enjoy!

Tim

Submitted to Yeastspotting on 4/12/12

MANNA's picture

Normandy Rye

April 4, 2012 - 5:56am -- MANNA

Baked the Normandy Rye this morning adapted from Nancy Silverton's La Brea Bakery book. I converted to grams and adjusted amounts to match my stye of bread making. I didnt have hard cider so I just used regular apple cider.

Here is my adaptation.

PRE-FERMENT (8-10 hours before)

100g water

50g  flour, white

50g  flour, rye

20g  barley malt syrup

1g   yeast, instant

DOUGH

700g flour, bread

300g flour, rye

400g water

300g cider

20g salt

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