The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

rye bread

frank's picture

soughdough for a beginner

May 26, 2007 - 4:32am -- frank

I am not having much luck with spoughdough.I am currently trying a recipe from the miller of my flour.Soughdough is not a common bread in the UK so am not getting much help. When I was in Sanfrancisco  I fell in love with the taste and the texture.But so far my attempts all failed.The starter is fine and spongy and the recipe calls for 50/50 starter and rye flour but so far the dough just sits there doing nothing even after several hours.Any advise or suggetions  appreciated. 

pjkobulnicky's picture

I did a forum post a week or so ago asking if anyone knew more than me about making Joe Ortiz's Pain de Seigle de Thiezac . I didn't get any comments so I supposed the answer was no. So .. here is an update.

This bread is supposed to be all rye made solely with a natural starter. Ortiz humanely suggests that the beginner incorporate a bit of white flour and some yeast into the final dough. Even so, the first time I tried this it was a bear to make. Super glue has nothing over on pure rye dough. And ... pure rye starters that are not soupy wet are, how shall we say this ... subtle in their demonstration of activity. I also feel that Ortiz's transcriptions of bakery recipes for the home baker are poorly executed in print. (Joe ... if you read this I do apologize). He has the recipe starting not from an existing starter but from making a stiff levan from scratch. So ... the novice will spend 2-3 days waiting for something to happen and it may never happen. Or, since the action is so subtle, you may never know if you are successful. Anyone knows that it is MUCH easier to get a starter going with a wet solution. Then, once you have a working starter you innoculate another levan with it.

So, I spent the week getting a good starter going and when it came time to do Joe's recipe, I mixed a bit of the starter into the first levan mixture.

Joe doesn't give weights and Joe makes no mention of proofing temps. So ... I used the usual standard weights for cups of rye and white flour. I did the levan and the first refeshment at room temp (curretly about 60 in our house) over long times. The first (innoculated) levan went for almost 24 hours and the refreshment went for 8 hours. When I put the dough together with the wee bit of yeast, I move it to my proof box at 85 degrees where it went for 45 minutes. Then I shaped it ... not too tough and with less additonal flour to manipulate the sticky dough than with cibatta. I put it into a round shape and put it into a heavily, heavily floured round cane banneton using rye flour. It went back to the proof box for another 45 minutes. The oven preheated (450) with my stone for the 45 minutes. The loaf popped right out of the banneton on to my parchment covered peel. It baked for 50 minutes with another 10 in the turned off oven at the end.


If I can figure out how to get pictures to this site I'll post them. I did upload them but got a blank acknowledgment screen so maybe the image upload fairies were sleeping.


If it takes, here is the loaf:




And here is the FlickrURL:


Here is the crumb:





And here is the Flickr url.




pjkobulnicky's picture

Pain de Seigle

April 27, 2007 - 11:44am -- pjkobulnicky

Has anyone had much experience with Joe Ortiz's recipe for Seigle de Thiezac? I did it once this winter and while it turned out OK I never really felt that I was in control of the process. I have no idea how lively the dough or even the starter should be. I have no idea at which temperature the levening likes to work nor when I have achieved optimal rise. I just used my baking instincts ... and, as I said, the result was OK ... large (14-15" diameter) flat (2-2.5") dense loaf. So .. anyone got this one down pat? If so, how would you describe a successful loaf?

Cliff Johnston's picture

Home-MIlled Flour vs. Store-Bought Flour Rye Bread

March 4, 2007 - 7:33pm -- Cliff Johnston

My Nutrimill arrived this week as did my organic white wheat and rye grains.  In addition our son decided to pay us an extended visit.  The timing is perfect.   I have an unbiased taste taster on site.  I'll try to get some photos posted over the next several days to show just what my process looks like and the results.


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